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  #161  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 3:12 PM
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Tiny move, big worries for Saturday Market
Thursday, May 24, 2007
By Fred Leeson
The Oregonian

Saturday Market survived one move of 300 feet early in its 33-year history as a Portland shopping institution.

The question now is whether the critical mass of artisan/vendors can survive an even shorter one. Alas, what sounds so simple is not.

"In retail, every extra step is a problem for people," says Sandra Burtzos, Portland Bureau of Parks & Recreation project manager, especially when the steps involve crossing a four-lane arterial called Naito Parkway.

Burtzos is helping shepherd planning for improvements to Ankeny Plaza and a section of Tom McCall Waterfront Park that will become the market's new home next March. At stake is the viability of a tourist/shopping magnet composed of as many as 300 vendors of handmade goods.

A design team led by Walker Macy landscape architects has proposed three options for the market site and immediate vicinity. A citizen advisory committee working with the Parks Bureau, and the Portland Development Commission will pick a design by late June.

"At this point, they are all too small," says Paul Verhoeven, Saturday Market's manager, referring to the proposed sites. "There are not enough vendor spaces." He'd like to see room for 275 to 300 booths, but the options so far range from 209 to 268.

A few dozen booths would sit on Ankeny Plaza, the small public space behind Skidmore Fountain. But in all three options, most booths would sit on a horizontal platform erected to smooth out undulations in Waterfront Park immediately south of the Burnside Bridge.

The platform would be at grade under the bridge but would rise 4 feet above the park floor near the Ankeny Pump Station. All three plans include a water feature, something akin to Salmon Street Springs at the south end of the park that could be turned off and leave a flat surface when needed for big events such as Cinco de Mayo or the Rose Festival.

Anne Naito-Campbell, a principal in the Bill Naito Co., a significant property owner in the area, is trying to raise $1 million in donations for the fountain. She envisions "a really stupendous, dynamic water feature that will draw people 24 hours a day, 365 days a year."

Proposals for rain shelter over the market platform include a solid roof, one with an airy slit down the middle and one that would open and close in some fashion. Architect Bob Thompson says the difficulty with a movable roof is finding a reliable mechanism that is inexpensive to maintain. Planners fear that a roof would attract homeless sleepers.

Another concept would flood the platform when not in use to make a shallow reflecting pool.

Besides rain protection, unresolved issues affecting the market include storage space and public toilets. Creating a pedestrian-friendly crossing for Naito Parkway also is a major design factor. Verhoeven says about 30 percent of market customers arrive by MAX at the Skidmore Fountain station, and the market will wither if shoppers find the crossing daunting.

Market artisans may be asked to improve their portable booths when the new location opens next year. Burtzos says she'd like to keep the market's funky feel but upgrade its image.

Verhoeven says promotional efforts next year will aim to tell the public about the new location rather than move the market upscale.

"We want to keep it so vendors can individually express their businesses," he says, "but somehow tie it in to the new site."

Portland News: 503-221-8199; portland@news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/o...890.xml&coll=7
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  #162  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 3:13 PM
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Tiny move, big worries for Saturday Market
Thursday, May 24, 2007
By Fred Leeson
The Oregonian

Saturday Market survived one move of 300 feet early in its 33-year history as a Portland shopping institution.

The question now is whether the critical mass of artisan/vendors can survive an even shorter one. Alas, what sounds so simple is not.

"In retail, every extra step is a problem for people," says Sandra Burtzos, Portland Bureau of Parks & Recreation project manager, especially when the steps involve crossing a four-lane arterial called Naito Parkway.

Burtzos is helping shepherd planning for improvements to Ankeny Plaza and a section of Tom McCall Waterfront Park that will become the market's new home next March. At stake is the viability of a tourist/shopping magnet composed of as many as 300 vendors of handmade goods.

A design team led by Walker Macy landscape architects has proposed three options for the market site and immediate vicinity. A citizen advisory committee working with the Parks Bureau, and the Portland Development Commission will pick a design by late June.

"At this point, they are all too small," says Paul Verhoeven, Saturday Market's manager, referring to the proposed sites. "There are not enough vendor spaces." He'd like to see room for 275 to 300 booths, but the options so far range from 209 to 268.

A few dozen booths would sit on Ankeny Plaza, the small public space behind Skidmore Fountain. But in all three options, most booths would sit on a horizontal platform erected to smooth out undulations in Waterfront Park immediately south of the Burnside Bridge.

The platform would be at grade under the bridge but would rise 4 feet above the park floor near the Ankeny Pump Station. All three plans include a water feature, something akin to Salmon Street Springs at the south end of the park that could be turned off and leave a flat surface when needed for big events such as Cinco de Mayo or the Rose Festival.

Anne Naito-Campbell, a principal in the Bill Naito Co., a significant property owner in the area, is trying to raise $1 million in donations for the fountain. She envisions "a really stupendous, dynamic water feature that will draw people 24 hours a day, 365 days a year."

Proposals for rain shelter over the market platform include a solid roof, one with an airy slit down the middle and one that would open and close in some fashion. Architect Bob Thompson says the difficulty with a movable roof is finding a reliable mechanism that is inexpensive to maintain. Planners fear that a roof would attract homeless sleepers.

Another concept would flood the platform when not in use to make a shallow reflecting pool.

Besides rain protection, unresolved issues affecting the market include storage space and public toilets. Creating a pedestrian-friendly crossing for Naito Parkway also is a major design factor. Verhoeven says about 30 percent of market customers arrive by MAX at the Skidmore Fountain station, and the market will wither if shoppers find the crossing daunting.

Market artisans may be asked to improve their portable booths when the new location opens next year. Burtzos says she'd like to keep the market's funky feel but upgrade its image.

Verhoeven says promotional efforts next year will aim to tell the public about the new location rather than move the market upscale.

"We want to keep it so vendors can individually express their businesses," he says, "but somehow tie it in to the new site."

Portland News: 503-221-8199; portland@news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/o...890.xml&coll=7
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  #163  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 3:20 PM
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it takes a long time to load, but here are the three options (some promising renderings)

http://www.portlandsaturdaymarket.co...nt_Phase_2.pdf
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  #164  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 3:45 PM
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Why does it have to move? What happens to the surface parking lots they use now? Making peds cross a 4 lane Naito ave is a killer. Compare Naito space to the cobblestone MAX line space now. I don't see the market surviving this PDC induced move.

I love how these pdf options always show these wonderful european plaza's filled with people and yet what we usually end up with is added auto capacity (THe Mall, Naito pkwy), cheap concrete plaza's spaces (NW 3rd&4th Streetscape) and design by committee mediocrity.

Last edited by cab; May 24, 2007 at 3:54 PM.
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  #165  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:37 PM
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Wow, the renderings are really cool. I think this will introduce more people to the under utilized Japanese American Historical garden north of the bridge. The cherry blossoms were awesome this spring.

That current market area is the pit during the weekdays.

Last edited by vjoe; May 24, 2007 at 8:27 PM.
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  #166  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cab
Why does it have to move? What happens to the surface parking lots they use now? Making peds cross a 4 lane Naito ave is a killer. Compare Naito space to the cobblestone MAX line space now. I don't see the market surviving this PDC induced move.
the surface parking lots are going to be gone soon. Mercy Corp has bought the Skidmore building and surrounding lots and is building a new HQ building and renovating the Skidmore.
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  #167  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:50 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Ok, I see why they are moving. And I suppose it really isn't that far from the MAX stop... (hope they still program underneath the Burnside Bridge tho!!!)

These ideas for redoing the street connection are AWESOME!
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  #168  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:56 PM
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They are using the underside of the Burnside over in the park, but I don't think they are going to utilize the area by the MAX stop. Supposedly the UofO and Mercy Corps could be working on a joint project underneath the bridge...but I haven't heard the slightest bit of details.

BTW: the booths in the plaza with the head shop and other stores are not part of the Saturday Market. They are their own market that allows more imports and knock offs, whereas the Saturday Market (under the Burnside and wrapping around the Skidmore) requires a demonstration of individual skills.
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  #169  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 9:03 PM
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Huh?

Am I missing something here? Crossing Naito to get to Saturday Market? Has that been addressed? I'm really hoping I missed it because I don't see tourists and families with kids dealing with the traffic to cross Naito.
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  #170  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
They are using the underside of the Burnside over in the park, but I don't think they are going to utilize the area by the MAX stop. Supposedly the UofO and Mercy Corps could be working on a joint project underneath the bridge...but I haven't heard the slightest bit of details.
It still seems strange to me that they wouldn't retain the area under the bridge next to the MAX station as part of Saturday Market. That would at least draw people in from MAX before they have to cross Naito Parkway.
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  #171  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 9:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post
Am I missing something here? Crossing Naito to get to Saturday Market? Has that been addressed? I'm really hoping I missed it because I don't see tourists and families with kids dealing with the traffic to cross Naito.
You mean like they do to get to Salmon Street Springs? Or the ampitheatre near RiverPlace? Or the Rose Festival Fun Center? Or any other event that happens in Waterfront Park?
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  #172  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 9:46 PM
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It still seems strange to me that they wouldn't retain the area under the bridge next to the MAX station as part of Saturday Market. That would at least draw people in from MAX before they have to cross Naito Parkway.
It looks like they want to have the majority of people crossing Naito at Ankeny Plaza instead of under the Burnside Bridge.
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  #173  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 10:37 PM
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They should just shut down the streets in the area, allow a thousand or more vendors to open up, just like the street markets that you find in every other country in the world.
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  #174  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 10:38 PM
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with the area redone, the Market still in Ankeny plaza with the faux market still across 1st, the UofO, Mercy Corps, a remodeled Waterfront Park, possible new housing, the Beam/Naito development. Ehhh, I'm not too worried.
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  #175  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 4:27 AM
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They Should Still Take Advantage Of The Available Shelter Of The Burnside Bridge Even If The Move Across Naito. Losing The Spot Adjacent To The Max Might Have An Effect On Visibility.
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  #176  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 4:44 AM
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You mean like they do to get to Salmon Street Springs? Or the ampitheatre near RiverPlace? Or the Rose Festival Fun Center? Or any other event that happens in Waterfront Park?" 65MAX

Sure, they do that, but doesn't it kind of raise hell with the traffic flow? Also, it definitely seems like it must be more dangerous for all the little ones, frail and old ones and so forth, than stepping right off the MAX into the heart of the market. I'll bet the traffic engineers have something to say about this.
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  #177  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 1:46 PM
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There is a big difference between 4 auto lane Naito and the cobblestone carfree MAX area around the fountain. The fountain and cobblestone pedestrian area is the center of that market, now Naito will be.
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  #178  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 3:32 PM
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^I bet you Naito get's restricted to one lane in each direction (can't close Naito because of FS1) with some sort of clean and safe officers making sure traffic stops.

I see positives and negatives to each site. A new destination fountain and plaza in waterfront park will open it up to so much more than just the Saturday market. The OTCT area is getting cleaned up fast, and the area might thrive beyond anything we could imagine. On the other hand, change is not always good.

I think the Saturday Market's reputation is strong enough to handle this move. I also think attendance will increase because people who haven't been for a few years would come back to see the new market.
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  #179  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 6:05 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Maybe they could, only when the market is open, convert the outermost lanes of Naito to parallel-parking like they do on Burnside, Division, and other major streets in Portland during off-peak hours. There really isn't that much traffic on Naito right there anyway, even during peak hours.
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  #180  
Old Posted May 29, 2007, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by zilfondel View Post
There really isn't that much traffic on Naito right there anyway, even during peak hours.
That's why I'm not worried about masses of people crossing Naito. It really doesn't have that much through traffic under the Burnside Bridge, even during rush hour. And the crosswalks that are there now (or will be there) are probably some of the largest, most clearly marked and signalized crosswalks in the city.
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