Sacramento Transportation

[ozone]

Originally Posted by enigma99a

Measure B failed... sometimes this city sucks

So before we go on about how terrible Sacramento is...

As I see it, the YES on B group were not as aggressive as the No on B group. Nor did they make a compelling enough argument. I went to one "event" and nobody spoke.

But a bigger issue is that fact that central Sacramento has the problem of having too many property owners who do not even live in the City of Sacramento, let alone in the city's core. They are only interested in taking residents' money, not giving back to the community. That's not Sacramento sucking. That's Sacramento's suburban overlords sucking us dry.

[Majin]

Actually a bigger problem is the 2/3's majority that required it to pass in the first place. Thats too high of a hurdle in any city that is purposing any kind of tax increase. I really hope the city and KJ had a backup plan because I really never expected this to reach the 2/3's majority but was just hoping I was wrong.

[LandofFrost]

Originally Posted by Majin

Actually a bigger problem is the 2/3's majority that required it to pass in the first place. Thats too high of a hurdle in any city that is purposing any kind of tax increase. I really hope the city and KJ had a backup plan because I really never expected this to reach the 2/3's majority but was just hoping I was wrong.

^^This, 2/3rds? I can't get that many people to agree that Obama is president.

Also, while I'm for the train, it really needs to go to a population center like midtown or at least 16th street.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by Majin

Actually a bigger problem is the 2/3's majority that required it to pass in the first place. Thats too high of a hurdle in any city that is purposing any kind of tax increase. I really hope the city and KJ had a backup plan because I really never expected this to reach the 2/3's majority but was just hoping I was wrong.

Standard for assessment district

[ozone]

IMO the streetcar proposal is flawed, in that it does not connect the many of existing and up-and -coming neighborhood hotspots with those with a lot of potential. It is seen by many as just an expensive trolley for tourists rather than a real urban transport solution for the residents. So in a way, even though I supported the measure, I'm OK with it being defeated. The people supporting the streetcar need to rethink their goals.

Besides being a Midtown resident, I have a business that is a 1/2 block from the proposed route. So I've been interested in the whole streetcar thing and have talked to many people about it, residents, non-residents, other business and property owners. The basic conclusion was that would be too much for too little.

I don't know why the streetcar is seen as the best solution? Except that people have a romantic image of them. Since they would be sharing the road with traffic, they would not be any more efficient than buses. But I get the whole psychological stigma/nostalgia thing.

So why not create a bus system, separate from the RT system, that is exclusive to the grid and it's fringes? The buses could, should, would be styled in an old-fashion manner for maximum charm effect and still have the modern conveniences. Nice ornamental shelters at the bus stops and wherever possible, bus right-of-way lanes and signal priority. As an area becomes more popular the bus routes can change or be added much easier than a fixed rail line.

In my head I could see a series of simple loops for max. efficiency. Tighter loops connecting high-ped-traffic areas, such as J St-L St, bwtn 3rd and Alhambra, and 16th St-19th St, bwtn H-Broadway. And wider loops or spurs connecting parts of R Street, Broadway, Raley Field, McKinley Park, and even Oak Park.

Oh and run the buses for free. The cost would be paid for by property owners and business in the area.

[Pistola916]

I'm not surprised at all by the defeat also. There isn't enough downtown residents living around the proposed route. You can get the hotels and the corporate folks working in high-rises to support the project but small business and property owners -many of whom don't live downtown anyway - don't want it because it simply doesn't benefit them.

Light-rail essentially acts like a streetcar in the downtown area. There isn't a demand for more trains when we have a functionally rail system in place. I support the streetcar but a bus circulator can works just as good.

[wburg]

Originally Posted by LandofFrost

^^This, 2/3rds? I can't get that many people to agree that Obama is president.

Also, while I'm for the train, it really needs to go to a population center like midtown or at least 16th street.

2/3 majority is required for any sort of tax assessment in Calforia. And the streetcar line plan runs to 19th Street, which is well into Midtown, and pretty close to being the geographic center of the "grid," accessible to tens of thousands of people. They're also planning for upcoming growth in West Sacramento and Downtown, the problem is, without a streetcar line it becomes a lot harder to get the population density of an urban core higher than a certain point. Without a good robust transit system, you need more parking spaces, parking lots, more auto lanes etcetera. Streetcars mean more room for people instead of cars.

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

I'm not surprised at all by the defeat also. There isn't enough downtown residents living around the proposed route. You can get the hotels and the corporate folks working in high-rises to support the project but small business and property owners -many of whom don't live downtown anyway - don't want it because it simply doesn't benefit them.

Light-rail essentially acts like a streetcar in the downtown area. There isn't a demand for more trains when we have a functionally rail system in place. I support the streetcar but a bus circulator can works just as good.

Nobody who doesn't already live downtown had the right to vote in this election--it was limited solely to those registered voters within 3 blocks of the streetcar line. The vote was decided by a very slim margin--about 20 votes. I think a lot of those absentee landlords who don't want to pay taxes even if it benefits them were responsible for a lot of the "No on B" signs, though. Also, a lot of residents of the downtown core are seniors in retirement homes along the route, and it's hard to convince senior citizens to vote for a tax increase, even if they won't be the ones paying it (low-income housing and senior housing properties were exempt from the tax.)

Light rail acts like an ersatz streetcar, but not a very good one--the vehicles are too big and block more traffic, and they're part of a larger system which makes it harder to focus on that core traffic. A bus circulator doesn't work as well and doesn't achieve the same goals.

[Web]

Originally Posted by enigma99a

Measure B failed... sometimes this city sucks

"city"? the only eligible voters were a small small representation. also what was the turnout of this measure???

[wburg]

1215 votes out of 3747 registered voters within the district boundary. The results:

No. . . . . . . . . . . . . 627 51.65
Yes . . . . . . . . . . . . 587 48.35

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by LandofFrost

^^This, 2/3rds? I can't get that many people to agree that Obama is president.

Also, while I'm for the train, it really needs to go to a population center like midtown or at least 16th street.

It was planned to go to 19th street!



http://www.riverfrontstreetcar.com/w...-streetcar-go/

[LandofFrost]

Originally Posted by creamcityleo79

It was planned to go to 19th street!



http://www.riverfrontstreetcar.com/w...-streetcar-go/

Oh, my bad. I thought it only went around the convention center. If it went all the way to 19th.. jeez now I'm really bummed it didn't pass.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by LandofFrost

Oh, my bad. I thought it only went around the convention center. If it went all the way to 19th.. jeez now I'm really bummed it didn't pass.

Maybe that says something about how poorly the YES side got their message across!

[Deno]

How big of a tax increase was it?

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Deno

How big of a tax increase was it?

For owners of single-family homes between 1 and 3 blocks from the tracks, between $36 and $60 a year. For commercial or multifamily residential property owners, it depends on the square footage of the property. For owners of low-income or senior housing, nothing. For anyone farther than 3 blocks from the tracks, nothing.

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by enigma99a

Measure B failed... sometimes this city sucks

Meh... driverless cars are going to revolutionize urban transportation anyway, and we're not talking in some far-off, distant future, but within five years.

Increasingly, it becomes clear that hugely expensive urban rail systems are 19th century transportation solutions for 21st century transportation problems...

[wburg]

Trolleys and automobiles were both invented in the 1880s, and the technological changes that have happened since then affect both types of transportation--but friction is still friction, which is why streetcars use one-third as much power per passenger as buses, and about a fifth as much as hybrid cars. In the meantime, streetcars aren't the same machines they were a century ago, any more than modern cars are still built like Model Ts. As to self-driving vehicles, what are the potential advantages of a self-driving streetcar? No operator means you can put a human conductor on board, whose full-time job is checking fares and maintaining order.

And a lot of what is being billed as 21st century solutions for cities is based on things that late 19th century and 20th century cities used to do, plus the lessons we have learned in the intervening century to address the problems of 19th century cities.

[SacTownAndy]

This may have already been posted somewhere. I didn't realize this project was starting next month. New entrance to Old Town, bike lanes, wider sidewalks, and streetscaping. In one of the pictures it looks like a new bridge from N St over I-5, but no mention in the write-up.

Construction of a new entrance into Old Sacramento at Capitol Mall and 2nd Street and installation of wider sidewalks on the O Street Bridge over I-5 will begin in July. Work is expected to be finished in fall of 2016, ahead of the opening of the Golden 1 Center.

http://sacramentocityexpress.com/201...-into-old-sac/

[enigma99a]

I-80 between Sacramento and Fairfield is a complete disaster. Last weekend although a holiday weekend was stopped from Sacramento to Vacaville solid. I think we should be investing money to provide better transportation between Sac and SF. There is no reason a metro of 7.5 million doesn't have a good link to a metro of 2.5 million and only 70 miles away. (Actually the metros are only like 30-35 miles apart)

I would like to see a push for funding a new bridge over the carquinez straight just for passenger service and some tunnels for straighter track towards Oakland. Then upgrade the system to 150 mph service and get people from Downtown Sac to Oakland (and SF with new tubes) in 48 minutes (limited express). Cap corridor is okay but it's slow and expensive. Then if you needed a car, just grab a zipcar, etc. How many billions would this kind of system take?

[fflint]

Originally Posted by enigma99a

I-80 between Sacramento and Fairfield is a complete disaster. Last weekend although a holiday weekend was stopped from Sacramento to Vacaville solid. I think we should be investing money to provide better transportation between Sac and SF. There is no reason a metro of 7.5 million doesn't have a good link to a metro of 2.5 million and only 70 miles away. (Actually the metros are only like 30-35 miles apart)

I would like to see a push for funding a new bridge over the carquinez straight just for passenger service and some tunnels for straighter track towards Oakland. Then upgrade the system to 150 mph service and get people from Downtown Sac to Oakland (and SF with new tubes) in 48 minutes (limited express). Cap corridor is okay but it's slow and expensive. Then if you needed a car, just grab a zipcar, etc. How many billions would this kind of system take?

Agreed we need better access between the Bay Area and Sacramento, but a lot of that traffic you note was vacationers headed home from the Sierra (especially Lake Tahoe, since they have an awesome 4th of July fireworks show) rather than commuters between the two metros. People will probably always drive when they are going camping or traveling for fun to fairly remote places. There's just no way around that. By the way, I was stuck in that traffic too.