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  #11841  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2019, 8:47 PM
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SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
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Originally Posted by vblack View Post
I'm a long time very occasional lurker here so I perhaps have missed much of the discussion. If I'm reopening old wounds let me know and I'll delete the post.

I'm a Denver suburb (Arvada) native that now lives in Boulder (30+years), and I'm intensely interested in the impact of the arrival of autonomous EVs, on Denver specifically.

I don't like to come across as a cultist, but I've followed the topic for some time now and have found Tony Seba's presentation on AVEVs to be very well-supported.

I'm curious to see what those knowledgeable about urban development and Denver specifically think about the subject. Given the recent actions on infilling, the rapid arrival of AVEVs may overturn a lot of our assumptions.

Thanks!

Humans collectively, are terrible drivers. On every commute, you will see less than half of all drivers following all traffic laws. They are erratic, chaotic, irrational and careless.

With Autonomous personal transportation technologies, we will be able to begin the process of removing those four traits (erratic chaotic irrational and carelessness) from our collective commutes. The result will enhance efficiency, speed, reliability and safety.
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  #11842  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 1:42 AM
vblack vblack is offline
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Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
Humans collectively, are terrible drivers. On every commute, you will see less than half of all drivers following all traffic laws. They are erratic, chaotic, irrational and careless.

With Autonomous personal transportation technologies, we will be able to begin the process of removing those four traits (erratic chaotic irrational and carelessness) from our collective commutes. The result will enhance efficiency, speed, reliability and safety.
I agree. For safety and economic reasons, AVs will be hard to resist for long.

I think the current systems are about as good as the average driver, and they're getting better very quickly.
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  #11843  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 4:49 AM
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Yes, the technology has some maturing left to do. It is not ready for prime time. In a decades time though, it will be. And each year between now and a decade from now, will see steady improvement.

The real challenge will not lie in the maturation of the technologies, but instead will be the challenge of overcoming human beliefs and biases. Beliefs are changed through experiences. If the technology is rushed into the streets and results in bad experiences, changing these human beliefs may not be possible. The implementation of the technology must result in positive experiences for the majority of people.
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  #11844  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 1:23 PM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
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^ Well put.
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  #11845  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 3:48 PM
vblack vblack is offline
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Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
Yes, the technology has some maturing left to do. It is not ready for prime time. In a decades time though, it will be. And each year between now and a decade from now, will see steady improvement.

The real challenge will not lie in the maturation of the technologies, but instead will be the challenge of overcoming human beliefs and biases. Beliefs are changed through experiences. If the technology is rushed into the streets and results in bad experiences, changing these human beliefs may not be possible. The implementation of the technology must result in positive experiences for the majority of people.
I agree.

As usual, the biggest hurdle will be cultural. But I believe the economics will make AVs unavoidable.

Imagine the space freed up by not needing acres of parking lots, for just one example. How will that impact Denver's green spaces? We could end up with lots more, which would be a wonderful thing.
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  #11846  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 6:13 PM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
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^ Welcome aboard vblack. I grew up on a small 30 acre farm between Arvada and Broomfield before the subdivisions caught up to that area and I lived in Arvada off 87th and Independence St near Standley Lake for almost 35 yrs til I got married and moved to Littleton, Castle Rock then tranferred to Sacramento (I'm a Denver native-born St Anthony's hospital-Sloans Lake/Denver).

Btw did you go to Pomona, Arvada, or Arvada West High? I went to Pomona-grad 1978.
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  #11847  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 6:47 PM
vblack vblack is offline
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Originally Posted by CastleScott View Post
^ Welcome aboard vblack. I grew up on a small 30 acre farm between Arvada and Broomfield before the subdivisions caught up to that area and I lived in Arvada off 87th and Independence St near Standley Lake for almost 35 yrs til I got married and moved to Littleton, Castle Rock then tranferred to Sacramento (I'm a Denver native-born St Anthony's hospital-Sloans Lake/Denver).

Btw did you go to Pomona, Arvada, or Arvada West High? I went to Pomona-grad 1978.
Yay - another nearby native!

Born at Lutheran the night LBJ beat Goldwater, AHS class of '83, fulltime Boulder resident since 1986. Did a couple stints not living in Arvada as a kid, but I consider it my hometown.

Boy, is it different now. I go through periodically and sometimes drive by the old houses I lived in.
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  #11848  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 5:22 AM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
This is significant news regarding the NW Corridor rail line. A peak service only option is all the corridor currently needs, with the BRT and electrified section of NW Rail serving the corridor at all service times. Service upgrades can be built in the future as funded and warranted.

http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com/...tracks-forward
Pending cost analysis, this sounds like a good creative solution to the NW rail problem. It would be a good compliment to the FF bus service while servicing a few areas that currently don't have good access (Louisville,Longmont).
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  #11849  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2019, 4:37 PM
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APTA Q3 2018 Ridership Report

Light rail was down 5% for the 3rd quarter; still up 1.6% YTD.

Commuter rail was up 6.43% for the 3rd quarter; up 9.5% YTD.

Bus ridership was (again) down 4.5% for the quarter and 4.75% YTD.

Cirrus recently dug up the 2018 totals by rail and bus

2018: RTD average daily ridership:
Bus: 244k
Rail: 127k - 52%
Total: 371k

I am impressed that the ridership for 5 light rail corridors carry over half of the ridership of a 142 bus routes. There's still tons of upside for light rail ridership in the future.

I was interested by the number of Rockies fans taking the W Line for a Sunday day game June 24th. A number of fans boarded at the Golden Station with more fans boarding at the Federal Center Station. These would have been early bird riders arriving downtown about an hour prior to First Pitch. Both the Taj Mahal and Federal Center Stations have nice Park N Ride's - very pleasant places.

Too many people apparently have an allergy for riding buses while I assume First and Last Mile access discourages many from riding light rail. I'd also guess that many are just resistant to change and would find light rail a nice choice if they tried it.
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  #11850  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2019, 8:49 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Do we have ridership trends on the FF to/from Boulder?

I can see overall bus ridership down while FF is up. The FF is much more geared towards students/professionals that have to commute to Boulder, while the regular buses serve lower-income people. Sometimes yes, you get bus riders commuting to/from downtown. However, the overall feel on a regular bus is much different than with the FF.
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  #11851  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2019, 9:30 PM
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TakeFive TakeFive is offline
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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
Do we have ridership trends on the FF to/from Boulder?

I can see overall bus ridership down while FF is up. The FF is much more geared towards students/professionals that have to commute to Boulder, while the regular buses serve lower-income people. Sometimes yes, you get bus riders commuting to/from downtown. However, the overall feel on a regular bus is much different than with the FF.
The Flatiron Flyer has been like Tony the Tiger. It got a great liftoff and has never looked back.

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/us36_36
Quote:
The Flatiron Flyer, RTD's new bus rapid transit service, which began Jan. 3, is carrying an average of 14,428 passengers per weekday-that's an increase of 45 percent compared to ridership along the U.S. 36 corridor in August 2015-serving Denver, Westminster, Broomfield, Louisville, Superior and Boulder.

The BRT service runs every 3-15 minutes, depending on time of day and location. In addition to more frequency, the Flatiron Flyer has increased weekday trips to 92 and increased weekend trips to 42.
That's pretty dated info; perhaps Cirrus who's good at digging out such data can help us (yet) again.

IIRC, it's been awhile but last I heard RTD was ordering more buses and did some route priority bus allocation changes.

This style or take on Bus Rapid Transit is one example of those agencies that have invested in some form or fashion in BRT designed routes have experienced great success.
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  #11852  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2019, 9:53 PM
Denver Dweller Denver Dweller is offline
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Light rail extension project to open May 19

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  #11853  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2019, 2:55 PM
Launch 12 Launch 12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
This is significant news regarding the NW Corridor rail line. A peak service only option is all the corridor currently needs, with the BRT and electrified section of NW Rail serving the corridor at all service times. Service upgrades can be built in the future as funded and warranted.

http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com/...tracks-forward
Really hope this happens. It would not be unlike other commuter rail systems that offer just peak hour service. Would it be both north and south service at peak times or just Denver bound trains in the morning and Longmont bound trains at the end of the day?
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  #11854  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2019, 3:02 PM
Launch 12 Launch 12 is offline
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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
Pending cost analysis, this sounds like a good creative solution to the NW rail problem. It would be a good compliment to the FF bus service while servicing a few areas that currently don't have good access (Louisville,Longmont).
Considering the amount of employment centers in east Boulder, a service like this could be attractive. A complementing circulator bus that connects to the RTD stations in the area that goes to the business parks might also make sense.
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  #11855  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2019, 4:27 PM
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TakeFive TakeFive is offline
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More Hot Takes at Commuter Rail Intersections

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/truck...sing-in-aurora
Quote:
A Colorado trucking industry group has asked the U.S. Department of Transportation to intervene in a squabble over a “high risk” intersection in Aurora, where hazardous material trucks, general traffic and RTD’s A Line commuter train meet. Hundreds of hazmat trucks cross the A Line at Chambers Road every day on their way to and from the Magellan pipeline terminal in Aurora.

The Federal Railroad Administration has called that intersection “high risk” and encouraged local government entities to work out a solution to “minimize risks.”
It would be nice if the FasTracks tax would generate enough money to add grade separated intersections in a few spots on The A Line. At over 22 miles trying to keep initial construction costs down was an understandable concern but in hindsight it's now clear that a few additional grade separated intersections could solve a few problems. (H/T to bunt)
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  #11856  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2019, 5:03 PM
DenvertoLA DenvertoLA is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
More Hot Takes at Commuter Rail Intersections

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/truck...sing-in-aurora

It would be nice if the FasTracks tax would generate enough money to add grade separated intersections in a few spots on The A Line. At over 22 miles trying to keep initial construction costs down was an understandable concern but in hindsight it's now clear that a few additional grade separated intersections could solve a few problems. (H/T to bunt)
it's too much to ask for truck drivers to not run into a train...?
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  #11857  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2019, 5:56 PM
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wong21fr wong21fr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
More Hot Takes at Commuter Rail Intersections

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/truck...sing-in-aurora

It would be nice if the FasTracks tax would generate enough money to add grade separated intersections in a few spots on The A Line. At over 22 miles trying to keep initial construction costs down was an understandable concern but in hindsight it's now clear that a few additional grade separated intersections could solve a few problems. (H/T to bunt)
Magellan can go fuck themselves- the halfwits that run that terminal couldn't find their own their own dicks with a flashlight and a half dozen people helping them. Poor record keeping, lack of communication of back-office system changes, and poor oversight of drivers is their standard. So I'm not surprised that they're bitching at their lack of foresight in addressing a potential safety issue when it should have been done years ago. Halfwits.

Oh, and it seems that THEY are the safety risk, not the A-Line:

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/01/...ce-disruption/
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  #11858  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2019, 7:43 PM
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TakeFive TakeFive is offline
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it's too much to ask for truck drivers to not run into a train...?
It never hurts to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Magellan can go fuck themselves- the halfwits that run that terminal couldn't find their own their own dicks with a flashlight and a half dozen people helping them.
Was it really your intent to insult Trump supporters?

I wonder if they couldn't get Adams CO and Aurora to put up half the cost? Didn't they do something like that at Peoria?
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  #11859  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2019, 7:56 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
It never hurts to ask.


Was it really your intent to insult Trump supporters?

I wonder if they couldn't get Adams CO and Aurora to put up half the cost? Didn't they do something like that at Peoria?
Nothing in wong's post said anything about Trump......
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  #11860  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2019, 9:39 PM
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wong21fr wong21fr is offline
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Was it really your intent to insult Trump supporters?
No. It was my intent to insult a light oils terminal that I consider to be poorly run with lousy management based upon my previous experience working with them.
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