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  #21  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy View Post
Where CBC says Fougere says the McDonald interchange is critical, did they mean Winnipeg? I don't agree that realigning Winnipeg street is worth $125 million. If you can re-hab the bridge for $10 mil, I would do that and use the money for other priorities.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 3:02 PM
North_Regina_Boy North_Regina_Boy is offline
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Originally Posted by Stormer View Post
Where CBC says Fougere says the McDonald interchange is critical, did they mean Winnipeg? I don't agree that realigning Winnipeg street is worth $125 million. If you can re-hab the bridge for $10 mil, I would do that and use the money for other priorities.
I do believe they do. And while many think that rehabbing the bridge would be cheaper. Looking long term. 30 years from now when the North end that way is growing you don't want a "kink" in Winnipeg street. So realignment is best. Not to mention at the refinery police have to direct traffic for a shift change. That is NOT a great situation anyway you look at it.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 3:06 PM
North_Regina_Boy North_Regina_Boy is offline
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I disagree. They will move if they are fully compensated and they do not lose access to customers. It would probably be safer for them as well. They do not like colliding with semis either.
Also considering tighter federal regulations, OH&S, lawsuits, loss of revenue, downtime, better public image. I think there are many reasons the railways may be reasonable.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 3:49 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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Looked at this same topic regarding Winnipeg in general including the ring road there (Perimeter HWY). Simply put the cost of relocation and associated remediation it would need, ie grade separating in different places, it is actually cheaper to remediate the existing situation than relocate rail.

That said Winnipeg has gone 60+ years without fully addressing rail lines on the freeway system around the city including a couple in heavy commercial trucking zones. It took 20+ years of having a "temporary" construction detour including a very high profile death to get one grade separation happening. At this point I highly doubt there will be much more progress on more.

Hopefully Regina has better luck than here.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
Looked at this same topic regarding Winnipeg in general including the ring road there (Perimeter HWY). Simply put the cost of relocation and associated remediation it would need, ie grade separating in different places, it is actually cheaper to remediate the existing situation than relocate rail.

That said Winnipeg has gone 60+ years without fully addressing rail lines on the freeway system around the city including a couple in heavy commercial trucking zones. It took 20+ years of having a "temporary" construction detour including a very high profile death to get one grade separation happening. At this point I highly doubt there will be much more progress on more.

Hopefully Regina has better luck than here.
This is not a full relocation, but rather a couple of branch lines in the NE corner of the City. Full relocation would cost in the billions.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 4:33 PM
North_Regina_Boy North_Regina_Boy is offline
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This is not a full relocation, but rather a couple of branch lines in the NE corner of the City. Full relocation would cost in the billions.
Yes it would. And Winnipeg for the most part has the Perimeter Highway grade separated for the main lines. The one that causes headache for most is at Headingly and one of the reasons for its proposed bypass.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 6:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormer View Post
I disagree. They will move if they are fully compensated and they do not lose access to customers. It would probably be safer for them as well. They do not like colliding with semis either.
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Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy View Post
Also considering tighter federal regulations, OH&S, lawsuits, loss of revenue, downtime, better public image. I think there are many reasons the railways may be reasonable.
I agree that the railways will consider participating, but it will be on their terms... and with zero direct cost to them (and near-zero indirect cost). On those terms, they will participate.

If it comes to an outlay of money, or significant changes to schedules, or in any way altering their business, nope. Not going to involve themselves. Why would they? What's the upside for them? There's really no real OH&S or lawsuits related to that crossing, and downtime associated with collisions is minimal (and this single crossing is immaterial to them). Federal regulation won't focus on at-grade crossings, I'd bet. So, public image is the only driver...
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  #28  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 2:57 AM
WildCake WildCake is offline
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Originally Posted by Drofmab View Post
I agree that the railways will consider participating, but it will be on their terms... and with zero direct cost to them (and near-zero indirect cost). On those terms, they will participate.

If it comes to an outlay of money, or significant changes to schedules, or in any way altering their business, nope. Not going to involve themselves. Why would they? What's the upside for them? There's really no real OH&S or lawsuits related to that crossing, and downtime associated with collisions is minimal (and this single crossing is immaterial to them). Federal regulation won't focus on at-grade crossings, I'd bet. So, public image is the only driver...
Exactly, railroads will not be losing money for ‘the greater good’. I am more familiar with the Winnipeg situation but it seems like by the time the railroads are paid for their inconvenience of moving, given new land, decontamination of old land, and proper grade separations are set up in their new location (the new railyards will have railroads crossing highways outside the city anyhow), it would be way more costly than grade separating the rail line between Winnipeg and McDonald streets.

I could see the value a little bit more if the rail yards were taking up prime land (i.e. the Forks in Winnipeg, any riverfront in Regina), but this rail line is in the middle of a suburban industrial zone that would need some rail service anyways.

Is this rail line the only point on ring road that makes it a non-freeway between Hwy 6 north and Lewan drive?
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  #29  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by WildCake View Post
Exactly, railroads will not be losing money for ‘the greater good’. I am more familiar with the Winnipeg situation but it seems like by the time the railroads are paid for their inconvenience of moving, given new land, decontamination of old land, and proper grade separations are set up in their new location (the new railyards will have railroads crossing highways outside the city anyhow), it would be way more costly than grade separating the rail line between Winnipeg and McDonald streets.

I could see the value a little bit more if the rail yards were taking up prime land (i.e. the Forks in Winnipeg, any riverfront in Regina), but this rail line is in the middle of a suburban industrial zone that would need some rail service anyways.

Is this rail line the only point on ring road that makes it a non-freeway between Hwy 6 north and Lewan drive?
Yes they are the only at grade intersections. There are actually two Crossings in the vicinity of Winnipeg.

Also the other thing that Railways demand when their Rail lines are moved is compensation for any extra distance. They will require a mileage payment for every single car that has to travel extra distance. For example if there are 200 Cars using the track per day they will charge per km ×200×365 days per year x 30 years or more. This can really add up.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 12:58 PM
BrutallyDishonest2 BrutallyDishonest2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stormer View Post
Yes they are the only at grade intersections. There are actually two Crossings in the vicinity of Winnipeg.

Also the other thing that Railways demand when their Rail lines are moved is compensation for any extra distance. They will require a mileage payment for every single car that has to travel extra distance. For example if there are 200 Cars using the track per day they will charge per km ×200×365 days per year x 30 years or more. This can really add up.
Which is why the federal government needs to change the legislation giving the railroads so much power.

In other words, ain't nothing happening. Ever.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 4:18 PM
North_Regina_Boy North_Regina_Boy is offline
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Which is why the federal government needs to change the legislation giving the railroads so much power.

In other words, ain't nothing happening. Ever.
Well then Regina's only and must do option is go up and over CP CN and Winnipeg. As going under won't work unless they find a way to relocate tracks in that short distance.

Going to need to happen eventually and well frankly when RR hits 75,000 VPD happens it will be even more of a nightmare!
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  #32  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 6:46 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
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My initial proposal
So this is the hot mess that is the railroad in NW Regina




Here is my proposal to get the rail crossing off of Ring Road.



Since the above one goes through the refinery, just build a new line a little farther north?

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  #33  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormer View Post
Also the other thing that Railways demand when their Rail lines are moved is compensation for any extra distance. They will require a mileage payment for every single car that has to travel extra distance. For example if there are 200 Cars using the track per day they will charge per km ×200×365 days per year x 30 years or more. This can really add up.
If I owned something, and voluntarily agreed to help a government out, I'd ask for it to be revenue-neutral too. Asking to be reimbursed for extra distance is completely reasonable - if I were a shareholder, I'd expect them to demand this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutallyDishonest2 View Post
Which is why the federal government needs to change the legislation giving the railroads so much power.

In other words, ain't nothing happening. Ever.
Exactly - it ain't happening.

Even if the political will were there (it isn't - a battle with the railways would invariably have immediate & direct negative impacts on the resource & agricultural sectors), the court battles would drag on for decades. CN & CP have long & well-entrenched rights. For the feds to unilaterally change the legal rights the railways have, they'd need to be ready for a prolonged battle.

Short of nationalizing one or both railways, I don't see any politically palatable way for the feds to force the types of changes that people gripe about.
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