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  #3381  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 12:39 AM
hookem hookem is offline
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Agree totally with the previous 3 posts.

I almost think we should be thanking those in the past who said "hey, maybe lets not go overboard with the highways thru the city..."

Yeah, we have bad traffic. But is traffic speed really that important? I mean, when I think about the best cities in the world, I'm not thinking they are great because of how well their traffic moves.
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  #3382  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 1:01 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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The only thing which I really think needs to be upgraded to limited access (certainly not full freeway) is 360, but city leaders and the people in that corridor are adamantly against it... so whatever.
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  #3383  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 1:07 AM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
The only thing which I really think needs to be upgraded to limited access (certainly not full freeway) is 360, but city leaders and the people in that corridor are adamantly against it... so whatever.
I live off 360, and have been to many of those meetings. The residents want a real solution (overpasses over the intersections that have stoplights, and direct ramps on to Mopac on the south end)... what they didn't want was those "Michigan left" intersections they were proposing as an interim solution. We were told TxDoT didn't have the money for anything more than that. Cyclists didn't want them either, because they would reduce the bicycle lane to 5' in a lot of areas that would have become merging zones for cars.
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  #3384  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 1:19 AM
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Overpasses on 360 sounds gross. A better solution would be underpasses such as what they're building at Riverside and 71. Increase traffic flow and even the capacity while retaining the natural beauty that makes the place desirable in the first place. It would also cut down on the noise factor, which would be nice when you're on the greenbelt and at Wild Basin.
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  #3385  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 3:19 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Well then color my happy. I agree with Kevin: underpasses is a better idea.

The only difficult intersection that I just can't for the life of me see how they'll fix it is that light on the north end of the pennybacker.
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  #3386  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 1:37 PM
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Underpasses on 360 would be awesome.
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  #3387  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:52 PM
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I live off 360 and can't think of anyone I know out here that would be opposed to underpasses. Especially with the holiday season coming on and 360 becomes pretty much unusable.
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  #3388  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 7:52 PM
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Yeah, I think the residents would totally go for underpasses. I know I would. I think they just expect there will never be the money to pay for something like that.
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  #3389  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 2:04 AM
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Originally Posted by hookem View Post
Yeah, I think the residents would totally go for underpasses. I know I would. I think they just expect there will never be the money to pay for something like that.
Make it a toll road. If that means I'll get to drive on a properly maintained, limited access freeway, heck yeah I'd pay for using it.
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  #3390  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 2:42 AM
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Make it a toll road. If that means I'll get to drive on a properly maintained, limited access freeway, heck yeah I'd pay for using it.
U B steppin on toes here. Toll roads only go to the poor part of town...u best not B proposin the $$$part of town have them 2.
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  #3391  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 4:13 AM
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Make it a toll road. If that means I'll get to drive on a properly maintained, limited access freeway, heck yeah I'd pay for using it.
Realistically that would be tough, since there is no access road, and several neighborhoods/apartment complexes/offices etc are only accessible by the road itself. There would be no alternate free route for people who live, work, or have retail along the road...

A toll lane would be fine and maybe that could pay for it...
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  #3392  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 5:56 AM
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U B steppin on toes here. Toll roads only go to the poor part of town...u best not B proposin the $$$part of town have them 2.
Ohh the irony. The reason these highway-upgrades-to-a-freeway proposals are so expensive (and hence, require a toll) is because they want to build these massive, wide, beautiful roads (and probably other reasons as well) with access roads all the way that are not necessary...

Just keep the highway 3 lanes each direction, and break off when at an intersection (360 does this at its 2222 intersection). They don't need many access roads through most of 360.
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  #3393  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 3:00 PM
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U B steppin on toes here. Toll roads only go to the poor part of town...u best not B proposin the $$$part of town have them 2.
Yes, everyone knows that Allandale, Tarrytown, and Clarksville are the poorest parts of Austin.
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  #3394  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 7:51 PM
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  #3395  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2013, 3:16 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by hookem View Post
Agree totally with the previous 3 posts.

I almost think we should be thanking those in the past who said "hey, maybe lets not go overboard with the highways thru the city..."

Yeah, we have bad traffic. But is traffic speed really that important? I mean, when I think about the best cities in the world, I'm not thinking they are great because of how well their traffic moves.
Is traffic speed really that important? For about 80% of Americans and most business, yes. When you think of great cities you think of great urban places with museums, attractions, food etc, and urban transit(not YOU think this, but for the average person on ssp), and would agree most people think that way. However, Austin is not some urban paradise where having bad traffic is just part of living in the city. Austin has very bad large city traffic while having a very small inner city urban area. If Austins central area was as large as Chicago's, comparably of course, I would complain little about the traffic, but it doesn't.
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  #3396  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2013, 5:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Is traffic speed really that important? For about 80% of Americans and most business, yes. When you think of great cities you think of great urban places with museums, attractions, food etc, and urban transit(not YOU think this, but for the average person on ssp), and would agree most people think that way. However, Austin is not some urban paradise where having bad traffic is just part of living in the city. Austin has very bad large city traffic while having a very small inner city urban area. If Austins central area was as large as Chicago's, comparably of course, I would complain little about the traffic, but it doesn't.
Austin's traffic isn't anything like the huge urban areas you are mentioning. Anyone who thinks it is hasn't experienced one of the truly large cities in this country. It's small-time. Annoying, yes. But nothing like the really large cities.

And if 80% of Americans really thought traffic was that important, they would just move closer to their jobs. Can't afford a house there? Buy a condo. Can't afford a condo? Rent an apartment. Can't rent an apartment? Find a smaller one. But they don't do that. Because traffic isn't that important to them. They prioritize having a single family house, having space, having something new or larger than they need, etc over traffic. They just whine about traffic because they need something to complain about. They embrace more & wider roads because it would allow them continue to have all the other things they want on the cheap, not realizing that all they are doing is contributing to the problem their complaining about.
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  #3397  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2013, 6:38 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Originally Posted by hookem View Post
Austin's traffic isn't anything like the huge urban areas you are mentioning. Anyone who thinks it is hasn't experienced one of the truly large cities in this country. It's small-time. Annoying, yes. But nothing like the really large cities.

And if 80% of Americans really thought traffic was that important, they would just move closer to their jobs. Can't afford a house there? Buy a condo. Can't afford a condo? Rent an apartment. Can't rent an apartment? Find a smaller one. But they don't do that. Because traffic isn't that important to them. They prioritize having a single family house, having space, having something new or larger than they need, etc over traffic. They just whine about traffic because they need something to complain about. They embrace more & wider roads because it would allow them continue to have all the other things they want on the cheap, not realizing that all they are doing is contributing to the problem their complaining about.
The point is that Austin's traffic is horrible disproportionate to the region's population. Once you account for that very important factor, Austin and Honolulu have some of the worst traffic problems in the country.
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  #3398  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2013, 7:17 AM
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Austin would be a completely different city had those highways been built. It would have ruined South Congress and our waterfront. We likely would not have the vibrant downtown that we do or the residential influx that is happening there now. It would have made Austin even more car-centric and congested. And all those neighborhoods north of downtown would have been chopped up.

Can you imagine how much more worse I-35 would be with another freeway just south of downtown feeding onto it? The area just before the river is already a congested mess daily, and that would have made it much worse. It wouldn't have helped Mopac either.
So happy someone else feels this way. The amazing thing to me about Austin is that it's a Texan city but yet is not choked on all sides by a downtown freeway loop. Consider the three other biggies: Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. You cannot reach the downtowns of any of those cities without passing over or under a freeway (only Klyde Warren Park in Dallas is an exception, and that only masks the behemoth underfoot). Austin has the unique distinction of having a downtown that freely evolves from a built up central district to smaller scale neighborhoods on simple, solid earth...and without any visual/mental obstructions...and that's valuable.

I don't think Austin needs more freeways (at least not in the core...the far-flung suburbs are a different story right now). I think it certainly should retrofit/improve the existing ones to handle the dramatic increase in population, but that should be a temporary solution, and they should continue to encourage smart growth and new urbanist design in and around the core, and enhance/add to the public transit options. Consider the benefits to Portland of investing heavily in new transit infrastructure.

One might argue that a citywide initiative to build new transit, encourage smart development, and generally change the opinions and habits of people in regards to walking, biking or riding transit is an evolution that would happen far too slowly. ..but really, with TxDOT only at the point where they're studying options, substantial completion of any sort of sweeping, massive improvement project may not happen for up to 10-15 years, during which the headache of major roadwork on an already-congested freeway system would become a daily nightmare. (I know this firsthand here in NY, as they are presently completely reconstructing part of the Staten Island Expressway, while simultaneously adding an HOV lane to the BQE in Brooklyn. Talk about a nightmare.)

In the same amount of time, an initial transit system could be built and major walkable developments could completely reshape the look of the city. It's not impossible when you think of the 30/10 initiative in Los Angeles..or roughly the amount of time it has taken for the Portland system to grow from one MAX line to a substantial and mature variety of services. I'm well aware this is already happening, and it's truly fantastic, but imagine if all the time, effort and money going into studying these freeways also went to those causes? The effect could be staggering.

..and fortunately for Austin, a culture of biking and walkable, localized neighborhoods is already in place. The majority of long-time residents support it, and the new residents are drawn to the city by it. With the attitudes of Austinites already aimed well in the right direction, a marked change is far from impossible, or even too challenging. It's not even too much of a change, just encouraging good habits and killing bad ones.
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  #3399  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2013, 8:23 PM
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Residents on 360 aren't going to want 3 lanes because it will get rid of the median where wildflowers bloom spring-summer. They would go for underpasses and I think that is by far the best solution as someone who drives it every day. Cost wise, not sure how it would be paid for though.
While a 3rd lane wouldn't make sense as residents would be opposed, I do wonder about eventually installing a commuter line along 360. It would leave the median mostly intact and you could have various stops and connect in south congress area with stops at Westlake Dr, Bee Caves, Barton Springs Mall, etc... Bikes are commonly used on 360 and installing bike shares may make sense especially if Bee Caves adds a dedicated bike lane to Mopac.

This would be in the future when downtown rail is fleshed out and a commuter rail along this path could make sense as 360 will only become more congested and there will be serious opposition to a 3rd lane even when it becomes a true highway.
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  #3400  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2013, 11:10 PM
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Austin doesn't need more freeways. Also the ones we do have don't even really need increases in capacity. What we do need is for the ones we have now to become true highways without traffic lights. Everything between 360 and 130 and between SH-45 North and South should not have a single traffic light to slow down the freeway traffic. I was just noticing and remarking the other day how bad the traffic has gotten on SH-71 east of the airport. My sister lives in Del Valle now, and the traffic on 71 out there is a lot worse than just in recent years. My parents also used to have property in Cedar Creek. We also have family out there, and we had a friend who had a business on FM 969 just east of where SH-130 is now. Of course, that was 20 years ago, but the traffic on 71 then was never as bad as it is now even though there were more lights. Of course, some of that new congestion is because of the new housing that is out there, including my sister's neighborhood. Still, the remaining traffic lights should go. My sister's neighborhood is on that hill above Ross Road & SH-71. Just the other day the traffic was backed up because of the light that they put in at Ross Road when the neighborhood was built.

Building more freeways isn't really the answer because until some development is built along the freeway, it's pretty much useless to everyone. But of course, with new development to support the new freeway comes more sprawl and then you're back to square one.

Often times the problem with freeways is not capacity, it's other issues like traffic lights that stop and slow down the traffic, or entrance and exit ramps that slow down the traffic. Those actions create a domino effect that further slows down and even stops the flow of traffic.

The section of I-35 through downtown is a perfect example with the entrance and exit ramps, and so is 360 with the traffic lights.

Anyway, building underpasses along 360 would also alter the appearance of the landscape the least. Certainly the view from 360 would look about the same, maybe even better since you wouldn't have ugly traffic lights with overhead wires anymore.
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