James Beard Public Market | Proposed

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by MarkDaMan

and that is sad, after 7 years, 10 years...however long, we still can't get basic question answered. I'd like to see someone else spearhead this!

amen

[Drmyeyes]

I kind of accept the point some have made, that the tram may have been over budget even though its actual cost wasn't inflated. Applied to the situation regarding a public market, cost of such a facility is a question that's very hard to ask until some basics are established. People seem to be vague about what they expect a public market in Portland to be. Is is it a farmers market, a craft market, or both? They also can't decide where it should be. How can the cost of a project be estimated with any exactness until such things are known? Finally, city leaders can avoid the effects of "post-tram-atic" syndrome if they just keep abreast of actual projected costs of projects put together by the people putting bids together, and keep the public accurately informed of them.

[Eagle rock]

I don’t really see why it is such a big deal to build a public market. I mean you could just have a big glass canopy like Le Halles in Paris used to be. How much does it cost to build a big glass canopy? They could put it on those two empty blocks in front of Union Station. Or you could put it into some abandoned warehouse in the inner east side. I mean all you really need for a public market is a large open space in a location where trucks can park to unload produce.

I personally think it is stupid to put the market in Union station. It was built as a train station and that is what it should be. Train travel, whether it be on Amtrak or commuter rail or Max is only going to increase in the coming years and we will need space for passengers.

[cab]

PDX City-state, No disrespect to Ron Paul, I think he is trying hard to do something positive for Portland, I just think his approach is wrong.

The east bank is perfect because it’s a blank slate that these people involved in the effort can help define. Ron Paul keeps trying to redefine existing spaces. What is ironic is a PUBLIC market trying to forcefully remove a Saturday market that grew organically into its space. Or parasitically latching onto an existing, functioning rail station, he keeps trying to replace an asset with another asset.

You have an empty cheap space on the eastside with a lot of potential (talk about a clone of Granview Is.) that has an opportunity to be beautiful without displacing anything else in the process. Its a win win.

[PDX City-State]

Cab--all very good points. Portland Saturday Market truly reflects the character of this city--whether we like it or not.

[mcbaby]

Originally Posted by Eagle rock

I don’t really see why it is such a big deal to build a public market. I mean you could just have a big glass canopy like Le Halles in Paris used to be. How much does it cost to build a big glass canopy? They could put it on those two empty blocks in front of Union Station. Or you could put it into some abandoned warehouse in the inner east side. I mean all you really need for a public market is a large open space in a location where trucks can park to unload produce.

I personally think it is stupid to put the market in Union station. It was built as a train station and that is what it should be. Train travel, whether it be on Amtrak or commuter rail or Max is only going to increase in the coming years and we will need space for passengers.

amen.

[pdxman]

^^^Nothing is that easy or simple in portland. Things take FOREVER to get done. Its called the portland process: 1. create groups or task forces to study the issue 2. have millions of meetings 3. study the issue again, and again, and again, and...now take this process and tack on about 3-4 years to the original timeline and thats how its done. There's no such thing as a "Fast track" in portland, or oregon for that matter.

[brandonpdx]

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

Maybe Nigel Jaquiss was right--South Waterfront is Portland's Iraq.

Nigel Jaquiss article was completely short sighted. In ten years nobody will be talking about how over budget the tram was. They'll be talking about what a great monument of urban planning SoWa is.

In ten years we'll still be talking about where we should locate a public market and how the city lost it's opportunity to locate the public market where the remodeld fire station bunker that creates a dead pedestrian zone is.

Erik Sten where are you? Sam Adams, quiet Dan, Lents Leanord, of course Tom Potter are all shying away! step up, take a risk...be a hero. We all only live once and playing it safe is dull and won't win my 1 vote next time around.

Although, cab you may be on to something. In the model of Granville we could have little boats zipping us across the Willammette to our Eastbank Public Market. it would all be a part of the experience.

[PDX City-State]

In the model of Granville we could have little boats zipping us across the Willammette to our Eastbank Public Market. it would all be a part of the experience.

Except the city plans as if the river didn't exist.

[zilfondel]

cab: too right about replacing the spaces.

Granville Island in Vancouver was built across False Creek from downtown in an old industrial site; it sits below what is almost a freeway and includes workshop space for the community, children's educational programs (kind of like OMSI, but less institutional) and a public market closer to Pike's.

Anyways, it WOULD be a perfect fit over on the eastside: not only is the land cheaper and more room to spread out (without having to displace much), but most of Portland's population is also on the eastside, so one would think it would be a good fit. There are also a couple of blocks over by the end of the Marquam bridge, where there are a couple of warehouses being renovated, that allow a connection to the Esplanade. People could easily bike to it!

Could be the new landmark for the CEID renaissance.

[cab]

It also would be the opportunity to create a water taxi business connecting east and west. You have the best walking and biking bridge in the city right at the site, lots of parking, it's a good place to start the bike loop around the city, that kayaking retail place could help more vistors get on the river, it just a cool casual area that adds that river component to the city. The market would really give it that critical mass it needs to be a destination.

[pdxskyline]

I'm not exactly sure that Union Station would really work out well as a market. Maybe, if they got rid of the ugly post office and put it there, that would be a better connection between Union Station, the Pearl, and Old Town. Union Station seems too isolated from the Pearl right now for this to fly.

Location is everything, as Portland's history in regards to public markets goes. The first major market was on Yamhill Street- Fred Meyer got his start there. Then about in the 30's or so, the city decided that the Yamhill Market was "too crowded", and spent tons of money on a new market building right on the waterfront. The planning and construction processes were entirely corrupt, costs spiraled out of control, and, after Harbor Drive surrounded it, it was a weird location for customers. Vendors couldn't afford the rents, and it was closed. It went through different uses between abandonments and demolition for Waterfront Park. It was truely a white elephant worse than the tram's overruns. Had the city just left the Yamhill market alone, maybe we'd still have it today. In fact, the fact that the Yamhill Market was so overcrowded was exactly what made it work.

The eastside definetly has the potential for a great, expandable market. That or something over I-405, close to PSU maybe? It'd be really cool if they completely covered the 405/26 interchange, restored the street grid, and put it right there. The West End, PSU, Goose Hollow, and SW Portland would really get into that I think.

[Drmyeyes]

I wish we had a picture of the old Yamhill Market. Not old enough to have seen it in its heydey. Can't remember if it was on 6th or 5th. I remember it as a fascinating contribution to the downtown experience though; all those brilliantly colored fruits and vegetables glowing out of the gloom of Oregon winter. Never ever seen a really good picture of the market building on the waterfront either. Have heard the story about its dismal failure before though.

I think up through the mid 60's, 6th Av still had an old style newstand too. Made a great impression on me. Too bad there isn't some sort of modern counterpart to that; an i-pod download vendor or something.

[65MAX]

"...after Harbor Drive surrounded it, it was a weird location for customers. .... It went through different uses between abandonments and demolition for Waterfront Park."

Sounds like it was just south of the Morrison Bridge.

I agree that north of OMSI on the eastbank would be a great location for a public market. Besides all of the aforementioned positive attributes, it has great views of DT and SoWa. And this would definitely be a catalyst for the Water Taxi.

[Stepping Razor]

Originally Posted by Drmyeyes

I wish we had a picture of the old Yamhill Market. Not old enough to have seen it in its heydey. Can't remember if it was on 6th or 5th. I remember it as a fascinating contribution to the downtown experience though; all those brilliantly colored fruits and vegetables glowing out of the gloom of Oregon winter. Never ever seen a really good picture of the market building on the waterfront either. Have heard the story about its dismal failure before though.

I think up through the mid 60's, 6th Av still had an old style newstand too. Made a great impression on me. Too bad there isn't some sort of modern counterpart to that; an i-pod download vendor or something.

Couldn't find an online pic of the old Yamhill market online, although they have a lot down at the Historical Society.

Here's one shot of the waterfront market, in its later incarnation as the Journal building. I've seen a better pic of the huge market building with the Battleship Oregon parked in front of it (this was the configuration in the late 1930s) but I can't find it in the Google either...

So here's all I got. Thank god that freeway is gone. (Now let's get rid of the eastbank too...)

[robbobpdx]

There's a great website that has a huge collection of Portland history on it. It's at pdxhistory.com. Also, they have a specific sub-page just for the historic public market.

On the PDX history "site map" page there is a small photo with the old market building with the battleship Oregon parked in front. I tried to copy it, but it ended up about the size of a postage stamp in my system, and don't have software at home to edit it. But there are lots of photos of the market, not to mention the story about it, on the specific sub-page noted above.

By the way, just saw this article in The Oregonian the other day. This MAY mean the public market will need to go somewhere else. I, for one, am glad to see the train station continuing to be used as a train station. This funding will help historic Union Station do just that. It was built for trains, and should stay that way as long as possible.

I wish the public market folks well, but just not at the Union Station (sorry).

UNION STATION GETS MONEY

Thursday, March 01, 2007
Union Station, 13 other projects get state money

The Oregon Transportation Commission has approved $1.2 million for restoration of Portland's Union Station as part of a package of "enhancement" projects around the state.

The commission approved 14 projects totaling $11.3 million under a federal program that provides money for projects that strengthen the cultural, aesthetic and environmental value of the transportation system.

An advisory committee selected the winners out of 75 applications. Recipients must provide at least 10.27 percent of the project costs.

Other winning projects and costs were: Corvallis-Albany Trail, $460,000; Brownsville, Main Street gateway and streetscape, $850,000; Culver, A to D street sidewalk and streetscape, $800,000; Eugene, East Bank Trail, Delta Ponds Path Bridge, $1 million; Gaston, Park Street and Main Street sidewalk connections, $1.12 million; Gresham-Fairview Trail, Powell Boulevard overpass, $800,000; Haines, Third Street sidewalk, $340,000; Hubbard, Oregon 99 sidewalk, $890,000; Jackson County, Bear Creek Greenway Trail, $840,000; Maupin, Deschutes Avenue lighting, $280,000; Historic Columbia River Highway trail, $920,000; Rogue River Greenway Trail, $800,000; and, Salem, Union Street railroad bridge: $1 million.
-- James Mayer

[Drmyeyes]

Nice page on the old public market over at pdxhistory. Thanks robbob. I had no idea. What a concept for the time...parking on the roof. Loved that interior illustration. Not a great building, but those towers leave an impression.

Check out the Bayocean page too.

Here-here!...for trains at the train station. I'd love to see it vibrant again. I actually miss the big railyard, but it was doomed for a long time.

[65MAX]

I had an idea while discussing the future of the Memorial Coliseum in a different thread, but it belongs here. Why not convert the MC in a new Public Market?

You've already got loading docks, easy access to transit and freeways, a concourse around the perimeter for food stalls (which could be opened up to the outside), plenty of restrooms, and a central area with seating for special events, daytime and nighttime concerts or just presentations on the big screen (possible advertising revenue). There's plenty of space for restaurants above the concourse level.

Add some high density housing and create an actual neighborhood around the MC with streets and shops and clubs, then presto, Rose Quarter is born. (Finally)

It's also close to the Convention Center, for instant access by conventioneers.

Does anyone see any negatives here?

[IHEARTPDX]

From the "Local News Daily"
http://www.localnewsdaily.com/news/s...83835216826200

Public Market sets sights on new home
Union Station out as Melvin Mark offers different location

By Jennifer Anderson

The proposal to house a year-round public market at the historic Union Station building appears to be dead in the water, since the Portland Public Market Foundation mow has set its sights on a new location.

The new plan is for the much-talked-about market is to occupy the ground floor of the federal homeland security office at 511 S.W. Broadway, when that operation relocates.
**I don't think the address is quite right...I think that should be 511 NW Broadway
Portland’s Melvin Mark Development Company plans to acquire the building from its current owner, the U.S. General Services Administration, within two years, Paul said.

Melvin Mark would then lease the ground floor of the building – 37,000-square feet, or a full city block – to the foundation, which would offer space seven days a week to vendors of fresh and locally grown produce, meats, baked goods and flowers.

To Ron Paul, the market’s biggest champion and consulting director of the foundation, the partnership is the perfect solution.

“Politically, economically and operationally, it is an answer to many problem that Union Station had raised,” he said. Occupying part of Union Station, alongside the existing rail operations, would have been dependent on the city and Portland Development Commission addressing the $40 million in seismic upgrades and other renovation costs.

The amount of available space and the layout at the 511 Building is also better for the market, Paul said. While the site had been one of the leading options for a public market site since 2001, he said, his dilemma was what to do with the upper floors of the building.

He had not known about Melvin Mark’s interest in the building until recently.

The plan would be for the market to be the anchor the building, with the rest of it developed into mixed-use space, including residential and commercial units.

Paul said he’s shooting for occupying the building about three years from the time Melvin Mark takes control of the building, and his goal would be to own its own space within a decade.

“We’ve encountered a gift, in terms of a willing and capable public-private partnership,” he said. “We are very engaged in seeing this option all the way through.”

On a side note, the public market foundation’s board voted today to intend to name the market after the late James Beard, the nationally known, Oregon born chef and culinary expert.

This week is also the James Beard Foundation’s “Taste America” event, which is happening at various locations including Union Station and the Williams-Sonoma at Washington Square. Finally, the public market will be the subject of discussion at the Portland City Club on Friday.

[sopdx]

This location was one of the originals ard probably the best. It's an awesome building. I believe the parking lot behind is going back to park space as well.

I think the market will open about the same time the Burnside Bridgehead starts construction .