The Great Canadian Tourism Thread! - Page 16

SaskOttaLoo · #**301** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That's nothing. Since I returned to K-W, I've met people (born and raised here) who haven't been Downtown in over thirty years!

That's seems insane! Where do they go? Then again, when I lived in Waterloo Kitchener was always a bit of a mystery to me...I would go to downtown Kitchener and occasionally to the mall, but huge parts of the city remain terra incognita. So I guess my experience is the opposite of what they're describing (plus I didn't have a car, which limited the places that I'd go).

kwoldtimer · #**302** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 5:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo

That's seems insane! Where do they go? Then again, when I lived in Waterloo Kitchener was always a bit of a mystery to me...I would go to downtown Kitchener and occasionally to the mall, but huge parts of the city remain terra incognita. So I guess my experience is the opposite of what they're describing (plus I didn't have a car, which limited the places that I'd go).

Kitchener has long been a very suburban city and the absence of shopping Downtown was enough to kill it for many. A good bit of the Region's cultural life is Downtown, but some people aren't into that. Otherwise the only things that would oblige you to go Downtown (if you don't live or work there) would be to go to Court or to City Hall, or to catch a train or, in some cases, a bus. The Downtown has been improving, but things like new restaurants, brewpubs, coffee shops, etc aren't a draw for everyone.

lio45 · #**303** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 6:46 PM**

I have nearly no memories of Kitchener, despite having spent a chunk of a summer living there as part of an exchange thingy (called SEVEC then, now Exchanges Canada, from a quick online search).

The summer started with that Kitchener guy living in our family home in Sherbrooke -- he quickly panicked realizing he understood 0% French, so we ended up all speaking to him in English (even my mom, with her hesitant English). It was a total relief (I can't overstate it enough) for him the exact moment he realized my dad was pretty fluent in English. At first, we were all speaking to him in French only and expecting French out of him, which was basically the spirit of this exchange...

Then we switched and I spent the latter half in Kitchener. I have distinct memories of that period (for example, I can see again in my mind the local convenience store, and parts of their house, and of course I recall their Chrysler 300 convertible) but I can't say I recall the downtown at all.

In fact, I was a teen so unless they chose to bring me there, I might very well have not gone downtown at all during my stay. Might be why...

Acajack · #**304** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 7:04 PM**

One high school I went to as a teen had a thing for the Stratford Festival. Every spring, the kids with the highest marks in English class got to take a trip to KW-Stratford to see a Shakespearean play. As I was always one of the best in English I always got to go. So I went three years in a row.

We stayed at one of the universities: can't remember if it was Waterloo or Laurier.

We roamed around downtown Kitchener quite a bit. It was pretty dead but as a teen I didn't care much. There were video game arcades and that was good enough for me.

Stratford impressed me for the beauty of the town but the kids my age there seemed very trashy - SHH would have called them skeets.

We also visited Mennonite communities and learned about them, and so I may be one of the only people in Quebec who knows what a Black Bumper Mennonite is, for example.

niwell · #**305** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 7:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo

That's seems insane! Where do they go? Then again, when I lived in Waterloo Kitchener was always a bit of a mystery to me...I would go to downtown Kitchener and occasionally to the mall, but huge parts of the city remain terra incognita. So I guess my experience is the opposite of what they're describing (plus I didn't have a car, which limited the places that I'd go).

I'm fairly certain that my mom and stepdad who live in the inner-suburbs of Calgary haven't been downtown in years. It's possible there's a single restaurant they have been to dinner at, but other than that they simply do not go downtown. My stepdad is retired and my mom is a teach at a school in the suburbs and pretty much every other trip is driving to a suburban shopping centre. It seems extremely bizarre to me but there are plenty of people who simply have no reason to go downtown, and in many cases actively avoid it (often for parking related reasons).

Acajack · #**306** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 7:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

I'm fairly certain that my mom and stepdad who live in the inner-suburbs of Calgary haven't been downtown in years. It's possible there's a single restaurant they have been to dinner at, but other than that they simply do not go downtown. My stepdad is retired and my mom is a teach at a school in the suburbs and pretty much every other trip is driving to a suburban shopping centre. It seems extremely bizarre to me but there are plenty of people who simply have no reason to go downtown, and in many cases actively avoid it (often for parking related reasons).

In fairness, many people lead extremely busy lives where every minute counts. If they don't have a compelling reason to go to the downtown of their city then they won't go. (Though a 30-year stretch is a bit much.)

A relative of my wife's used to teach lower middle class preteens in Mississauga and at one point they had a school outing in downtown Toronto and this was apparently a big deal to between a third and half the kids who had never (at least in their memory) been there.

hipster duck · #**307** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

I'm fairly certain that my mom and stepdad who live in the inner-suburbs of Calgary haven't been downtown in years. It's possible there's a single restaurant they have been to dinner at, but other than that they simply do not go downtown. My stepdad is retired and my mom is a teach at a school in the suburbs and pretty much every other trip is driving to a suburban shopping centre. It seems extremely bizarre to me but there are plenty of people who simply have no reason to go downtown, and in many cases actively avoid it (often for parking related reasons).

I think one of the reasons that a European downtown of 500,000 feels so much bigger than a North American one, beyond just downtown density and downtown population, is that so many retail activities in a European city have to happen downtown. People are obliged to go to the city centre if they want to buy nice clothes or new sneakers. There are hypermarkets, and things like that, in European suburbs, but the interiors are drab and functional and you can't really buy nice things. The allure of a North American mall, with its fountains and food courts and high end stores is something that's missing over there.

In North America, except for independent restaurants and independent boutiques, there's nothing you can buy downtown that you can't buy in a suburban mall with free parking. Even ethnic shopping is generally better in the 'burbs.

rousseau · #**308** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:13 PM**

Downtown Kitchener is getting some life to it, and it will be interesting to see what the new LRT adds to it, but it's still comparatively barren and unattractive as an urban destination. You know the old saying, "people get the governments they deserve?" I think you can paraphrase it for downtowns and urban amenities, too. North America's postwar suburban push hit KW particularly hard in terms of malaise and the utter lack of interest in doing anything other than hopping in a car to go somewhere with lots of parking.

KW is very Calgary-ish in terms of the built environment surrounding downtown. It is not Montreal, not by a long shot. The new LRT goes through downtown, but it is mainly servicing residential neighbourhoods that look like this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.44334...7i13312!8i6656

Though there are some interesting new condo developments that are going up by the LRT line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Stratford impressed me for the beauty of the town but the kids my age there seemed very trashy - SHH would have called them skeets.

I honestly don't know if there's any skeet shooting around here, but the redneck quotient here is very high, so it wouldn't surprise me. I've never heard anything about that, though.

But Stratford really is quite backwoods in many ways. And the rural kids coming here for high school tend to make it feel downright Appalachian. At the end of the school year they have an informal event called "Tractor Day," where the kids from the farms drive their tractors to school, filling up the parking lot for everyone to see and admire. They also careen all over town in their jacked up pickup trucks with massive wheels, and park at one end of the lake near the Festival Theatre to hang out, as kids do.

I almost got ran over by one once. The asshole driver had stopped in the middle of the street to talk to his oncoming asshole friend, also in a truck with six-foot-high wheels. I rode my bike onto the sidewalk to pass, and just at the moment I was about to regain the street in front of the asshole, said asshole finished his conversation and jammed on the gas to jackrabbit forward. I was literally millimetres from getting either flattened or hammered.

I raced down to their hangout after him and berated them as a group, as I couldn't tell who was who. Me, a somewhat portly middle-aged man in a garish cycling kit. They listened in silence, and didn't say anything. Which, I think, distinguishes Canadian rednecks from American ones, as I have it on good authority that cyclists accosted by assholes in pseudo-monster trucks in the U.S. cannot express any displeasure toward said assholes without being physically assaulted or threatened with firearms.

In short: in my estimation, 99% of the assholes who drive jacked up pickup trucks with massive tires are complete assholes. Stratford's got a lot of them.

Acajack · #**309** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

I honestly don't know if there's any skeet shooting around here, but the redneck quotient here is very high, so it wouldn't surprise me. I've never heard anything about that, though.

But Stratford really is quite backwoods in many ways. And the rural kids coming here for high school tend to make it feel downright Appalachian. At the end of the school year they have an informal event called "Tractor Day," where the kids from the farms drive their tractors to school, filling up the parking lot for everyone to see and admire. They also careen all over town in their jacked up pickup trucks with massive wheels, and park at one end of the lake near the Festival Theatre to hang out, as kids do.

I almost got ran over by one once. The asshole driver had stopped in the middle of the street to talk to his oncoming asshole friend, also in a truck with six-foot-high wheels. I rode my bike onto the sidewalk to pass, and just at the moment I was about to regain the street in front of the asshole, said asshole finished his conversation and jammed on the gas to jackrabbit forward. I was literally millimetres from getting either flattened or hammered.

I raced down to their hangout after him and berated them as a group, as I couldn't tell who was who. Me, a somewhat portly middle-aged man in a garish cycling kit. They listened in silence, and didn't say anything. Which, I think, distinguishes Canadian rednecks from American ones, as I have it on good authority that cyclists accosted by assholes in pseudo-monster trucks in the U.S. cannot express any displeasure toward said assholes without being physically assaulted or threatened with firearms.

In short: in my estimation, 99% of the assholes who drive jacked up pickup trucks with massive tires are complete assholes. Stratford's got a lot of them.

Still a pretty town though.

kwoldtimer · #**310** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

In fairness, many people lead extremely busy lives where every minute counts. If they don't have a compelling reason to go to the downtown of their city then they won't go. (Though a 30-year stretch is a bit much.)

A relative of my wife's used to teach lower middle class preteens in Mississauga and at one point they had a school outing in downtown Toronto and this was apparently a big deal to between a third and half the kids who had never (at least in their memory) been there.

One of my nephews from Markham (Unionville) made his first trip to downtown Toronto when he was 13 years old.

GlassCity · #**311** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:27 PM**

Hell even I barely go downtown all that often. I probably average out at about once a month. There's just nothing for me to do there that I can't do closer to home. Shopping I can go to the mall, and as far as nightlife goes I'd rather go to my local suburban bars that are cheaper and don't require a half hour bus ride followed by a $40 taxi ride home. The only time I really go there is for concerts, sports or reluctantly being dragged to a club. Though I suppose this is also Metro Vancouver's planning goal, to give people closer urban options so everybody's not forced to go downtown.

kwoldtimer · #**312** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Still a pretty town though.

A friend of mine taught high school in Stratford until recently and, according to him, the kids were remarkably polite and well behaved. He didn't distinguish between the townies and the farm kids.

On the other hand, Justin Bieber IS a product of Stratford!

hipster duck · #**313** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Hell even I barely go downtown all that often. I probably average out at about once a month. There's just nothing for me to do there that I can't do closer to home. Shopping I can go to the mall, and as far as nightlife goes I'd rather go to my local suburban bars that are cheaper and don't require a half hour bus ride followed by a $40 taxi ride home. The only time I really go there is for concerts, sports or reluctantly being dragged to a club. Though I suppose this is also Metro Vancouver's planning goal, to give people closer urban options so everybody's not forced to go downtown.

In Metro Vancouver's case that goal seems to be working. The suburban centres have actual downtowns that have improved considerably in recent years. Thank god for that, because downtown Vancouver has such a price premium, and we can't have everyone who's interested in living in a walkable neighbourhood being forced to live in the City.

Personally, I think it's a better victory for all of us to see an infill condo with street-facing retail get built in Maple Ridge or Port Moody than in Mount Pleasant or Kits.

GlassCity · #**314** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 8:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck

In Metro Vancouver's case that goal seems to be working. The suburban centres have actual downtowns that have improved considerably in recent years. Thank god for that, because downtown Vancouver has such a price premium, and we can't have everyone who's interested in living in a walkable neighbourhood being forced to live in the City.

Personally, I think it's a better victory for all of us to see an infill condo with street-facing retail get built in Maple Ridge or Port Moody than in Mount Pleasant or Kits.

Yeah, I tend to agree. The fact that it's not necessary to go downtown to access many amenities is a positive thing. Sure it's cool to have a massive downtown that has everything with the rest of the city living off of it, but as far as sustainability goes, it's probably better to keep people from travelling these long distances and allowing them to meet a good chunk of their urban needs closer to home.

Stryker · #**315** Posted **Apr 20, 2016, 9:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor3

Growing up on the west coast of NL, pretty much everyone goes to Halifax one way or another. SPM is a thing that happens but traditionally not a lot, usually the french immersion classes will take a trip down in middle school and another in high school. There's a yearly Halifax trip in high school for the Atlantic Band Festival that we went to every year, and occasionally to New York for the same reason.

We also had a couple hockey trips to SPM back in middle school. A team would fly up here to play our bantams and we would send a team down to play their peewee team, or something like that. Always the best when your team would get picked for that trip.

We do have summer flights between Stephenville and Saint-Pierre now, so I'm seeing more and more people do vacations down there in July and August, and more people from SPM coming here and touring the west coast, and everyone who goes raves about it when they come back. But it is kind of a newer thing, lots of people have never been and are only now crossing it off their list while everyone has been to Halifax or Toronto at some point.

I donno I'm a little confused by your comparison when mentioning halifax.

I.e. Before the age of 18(when I moved to st john's) I went to halifax around 10-15 for atleast a week at a time each.

I went to st john's 3 times that I can remember or have been told about. ( random conference when I was 3, my parents purchasing a suv when I was 8, and my grandfather dying when I was 10.).

To everyone in my family Halifax is the place to go, St john's only exists because of schools and health science.

SPM to me always compares to Labrador, that far away but somehow nearby places that you want to see atleast once, but never goto.

Trevor3 · #**316** Posted **Apr 21, 2016, 3:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker

I donno I'm a little confused by your comparison when mentioning halifax.

I.e. Before the age of 18(when I moved to st john's) I went to halifax around 10-15 for atleast a week at a time each.

I went to st john's 3 times that I can remember or have been told about. ( random conference when I was 3, my parents purchasing a suv when I was 8, and my grandfather dying when I was 10.).

To everyone in my family Halifax is the place to go, St john's only exists because of schools and health science.

SPM to me always compares to Labrador, that far away but somehow nearby places that you want to see atleast once, but never goto.

I think we're in agreement on Halifax, but I didn't get my point across in my post. I went to St. John's for the first time when I was 11 and then once in high school for a hockey tournament. That was it. Halifax is far more frequent and common, especially when we had the daily flights over there, you could be in Halifax within an hour rather than 8 hours in a car to St. John's.