The Black community in Canada: past and present

[Docere]

North and East Preston

Population 1,720
Black 1,140 66.3%
Baptist 1,045 60.8%

[Docere]

I wonder how big the Black Nova Scotian diaspora is.

Toronto's Alexandra Park was known to have a sizeable Black Nova Scotian population. Just checked the Census and 3,025 Black Ontarians were born in Nova Scotia. If those born to Nova Scotia parents are included, it's probably double that.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Black Africans can be very racist towards African Americans and Caribbeans I've noticed.

I suspect it's less a matter of "racism" and more of classism. Many immigrants tend to be from the upper classes since they're the ones with the most access to education, connections, etc. while Black people in NA are disproportionately of the lower classes. Of course, some of not appreciating such associations is understandable and not necessarily a form of prejudice since it doesn't make a lot of sense to lump such very different people together. A newly landed Russian immigrant and a person with British and Scottish ancestry probably wouldn't want to be lumped together as a single community either. But when it isn't just difference and is actual classism manifesting as superiority then that's pretty gross.

But yes racism and classism tend to look similar since they're very closely related. Both cases of people assuming themselves superior based on supposed inherent differences. They often happen simultaneously in fact with people being racist because they associate certain racial groups with being lower class.

[Docere]

Apparently Toronto's some of Toronto's established Black community in the 1960s and 1970s looked down on migrants from Nova Scotia as country bumpkins.

Of course WASP politicians and media looked down on Maritimers and "Newfies" too even though most were also Anglo-Saxons.

More of a class thing, in both cases.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Docere

I wonder how big the Black Nova Scotian diaspora is.

Toronto's Alexandra Park was known to have a sizeable Black Nova Scotian population. Just checked the Census and 3,025 Black Ontarians were born in Nova Scotia. If those born to Nova Scotia parents are included, it's probably double that.

I have met a few scotians that lived in regent park back in the 80s early 90s. Even one lady here in Winnipeg that was born in Nova Scotia but grew up in Regent park.

Both the singer and the rapper in this video are of Nova Scotian background. Video was shot in Regent park. The singer, JRDN grew up in Halifax though. The song is cool, the rapping part is kind of annoying .
• Video Link

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

But yes racism and classism tend to look similar since they're very closely related. Both cases of people assuming themselves superior based on supposed inherent differences. They often happen simultaneously in fact with people being racist because they associate certain racial groups with being lower class.

We should assess people as individuals which both isms avoid (along with current DEI trends but that is another issue) but these classist prejudices are or at least can be based on facts not some made up idea that melanin determines other characteristics. People who are educated and stable members of society have a right to think they are superior. Not more valuable as humans or worthy of dignity or blameless but yes we want people to contribute to society and those that are doing so absolutely have that right. Looking down on parents who let their kids hang out on the streets why they are making theirs do homework is absolutely legitimate in my book. Assuming everyone from x y or z country or culture will do that absolutely not.

Originally Posted by Docere

I wonder how big the Black Nova Scotian diaspora is.

Toronto's Alexandra Park was known to have a sizeable Black Nova Scotian population. Just checked the Census and 3,025 Black Ontarians were born in Nova Scotia. If those born to Nova Scotia parents are included, it's probably double that.

Makes sense. Nova Scotia as a whole has a stagnant population. If the ratio is the same 100,000 white Ontarians would be born in Nova Scotia. Probably a bit high but in the ballpark?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

We should assess people as individuals which both isms avoid (along with current DEI trends but that is another issue) but these classist prejudices are or at least can be based on facts not some made up idea that melanin determines other characteristics. People who are educated and stable members of society have a right to think they are superior. Not more valuable as humans or worthy of dignity or blameless but yes we want people to contribute to society and those that are doing so absolutely have that right. Looking down on parents who let their kids hang out on the streets why they are making theirs do homework is absolutely legitimate in my book. Assuming everyone from x y or z country or culture will do that absolutely not.

Well a prejudice is, by definition, not based on facts. It's pre-judging someone before having all the relevant facts. Hence the name. Often because of a person's real or perceived association with other people. For example, assuming that a person is an irresponsible parent because they're poor and therefore must also do things like "let their kids hang out on the streets." And another factor is judging people outside their context. Assuming someone is a less caring or less competent parent without considering the challenges of having to work longer hours at a more taxing job, not being able to afford recreational programs for the kids, etc. When in reality, these aren't inferior people, they're just people in inferior circumstances.

Basically it's a lack of charitably in how one views others or not considering that one may not know all the facts. My mother often said that one of the hardest parts of raising a child as a low income single parent was dealing with all the judgement from other people. People who thought they had all the answers and knew what was best for others but had no clue what it was actually like.

But sure, there's nothing wrong with thinking some types of behaviours or choices are better than others as we all do that. I think choosing to exercise is better than not exercising, better to care about the environment is better than to think money or convenience is all that matters, and better to be charitable in how we view others.

[Luisito]

The main reason Africans look down on Black Americans is because they descendants of slaves. I personally have heard them say it. I remember back in 2008 Africans saying Obama would have never won the elections if he was a descendant of slaves, he is of African origin not Black American that is why he won.

On the Flip side of that I have met Black Americans that are just as hostile towards Africans, probably even more so. There is a movement in the US called FAB(foundational black americans). Black americans want to separate from other Blacks based on culture. On the surface this movement sounds reasonable as Black Americans are very different from Africans and Caribbean people, and have been in the US since before it was founded. The problem is though many are just anti immigrant and can be very hostile towards Africans and Haitians. Also, they want to rewrite history, their dislike of African is so strong, they don't even want to acknowledge their roots are in Africa. They make the claim slavery wasn't very common and that most Blacks were already here before whites. Some go as far as to say slavery never existed or that Blacks are the real native americans. I am not saying all black americans are like this but sadly this movement is catching on strong.

[Docere]

% of Black Nova Scotians in Halifax County/RM:

1931 32
1961 50
2021 73

[Docere]

Since there was some interest in Saint John, where there's a long established Black community, the Black population in the CMA is 2,355, of whom 1,150 were third generation or more. So about half are the old community and half more Black immigrants and their children.

[Docere]

Dresden, Ont.

1931 119 7.8%
1996 205 8.1%
2021 95 4.1%

Shelburne, N.S.

1931 262 17.7%
1996 115 5.3%
2021 50 3.1%

[Build.It]

As far as I know Ajax currently has the highest % at 16.8%

Brampton is at 13.12% although this is actually a bit lower than a few years ago.

[Docere]

By the 1940s, few places in Canada were as bitterly divided along racial lines as Dresden, Ontario. A small city with a substantial black population, Dresden was notorious for racial discrimination. Blacks could not eat in its three restaurants or get a haircut at its four barbershops and its beauty parlour. They were banned from all but one of its pool halls, were denied entry to the Canadian Legion except at stag parties, and did not attend the white church. Sidney Katz, who visited Dresden in October 1949 for Maclean’s magazine, later wrote that “the chances of a trained young Negro getting a good nonmanual job are almost nil. I did not find a single Negro in Dresden working in an office or waiting on customers.” Ironically, Dresden’s primary tourist attraction was Uncle Tom’s grave, as the city had once served as a terminus for an underground railway that helped black slaves escape the United States. In a 1949 municipal referendum, local citizens voted by a margin of five to one against a proposed bylaw banning discrimination (the only vote of its kind in Canadian history). The referendum question read, “Do you approve of the Council passing a by-law licensing restaurants in Dresden and restraining the owner or owners from refusing service regardless of race, color or creed?”

Morley McKay, the owner of Kay’s Café, was especially infamous in Dresden. A burly black-haired Scot with a short temper, McKay refused to serve blacks at his establishment, so the Jewish Labour Committee (JLC) arranged several “tests” of Kay’s Café. Two black volunteers entered it, McKay refused to serve them, and the JLC documented the episode and shared it with the media and politicians. The strategy infuriated McKay, who wielded a large meat cleaver at one point and appeared to have difficulty in controlling his temper. When he was interviewed by Katz, McKay said, “Do you know that for three days after I get raging mad every time I see a Negro. Maybe it’s like an animal who’s had a smell of blood.” Every time Dresden was mentioned in newspaper headlines, politicians’ stance that anti-discrimination legislation was unnecessary became increasingly difficult to maintain. Dresden provided Sid Blum, secretary for the Toronto branch of the JLC, with the ammunition he desperately needed to challenge popular perceptions about prejudice in Ontario.

https://historyofrights.ca/encyclopa...iscrimination/

[Kilgore Trout]

Crazy that we so rarely hear about places like Dresden.

I was just looking at census data and interestingly there are only two census tracts in all of Canada that have a majority Black population:

- Montreal (Montreal North) 0610.05: 51%
- Toronto (Weston) 01725.02: 50.4%

Areas in Greater Montreal with particularly large Black populations include the following:

- Cartierville (~30-50%)
- Montreal North (~30-50%)
- Norgate, VSL (~30-40%)
- Sunnybrooke (~30-40%)
- Rivière-des-Prairies (~20-30%)
- St-François, Laval (~20-30%)
- St-Michel (~20%)
- Little Burgundy (~20%)
- LaSalle (~10-20%)
- LeMoyne, Longueuil (~10-20%)
- St-Hubert, Longueuil (~10-20%)

Parts of Mascouche and Repentigny are also 10-20% Black.

[Docere]

So Little Burgundy is the closest thing to Canada's Harlem. A Black community going back to around WWI.

From where did this community emerge? I assume they were mostly West Indian.

[Docere]

The Black percentages in the GTA and Greater Montreal are pretty similar to the Greater Boston, Greater Los Angeles and the Bay Area.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by Docere

From where did this community emerge? I assume they were mostly West Indian.

I believe the community has its roots in African-Americans who moved up from the US to work as railroad porters. Little Burgundy was right behind Windsor and Bonaventure stations. They were joined by Caribbean immigrants – some of the most famous people in the area are Rufus Rockhead (jazz club owner who was from Jamaica) and Oscar Peterson (jazz musician whose parents were from St. Kitts).

Montreal was actually a fairly big destination for Caribbean immigrants up until the 1970s. The Sir George Williams protests in 1969 (when students threw computers out the windows of the Hall Building of what is now Concordia University) started because of discrimination against West Indian students.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Docere

The Black percentages in the GTA and Greater Montreal are pretty similar to the Greater Boston, Greater Los Angeles and the Bay Area.

This is a fairly recent development though. Both LA and Boston have seen their Black communities shrink. LAs Black community is only half of what it was back in the 70s and 80s. Even LA suburbs like Compton that were like 90% Black in the 70s and 80s is only somewhere between 20-30% Black these days, and it keeps decreasing.

[Docere]

Never said they were of the same vintage.

The Los Angeles Black community is mostly from the Great Migration, particularly from Texas and Louisiana.

Toronto was only about 3% Black in 1981. Mass immigration from the Caribbean had just begun about a decade before.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Docere

Never said they were of the same vintage.

.

I know you didn't, wasn't trying to imply that. Just pointing that LA had a bigger Black community at one point.