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  #1281  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 7:11 AM
nname nname is offline
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Originally Posted by Xerx View Post
Yeah, at about 43 km or so it would be the longest metro line in Canada. Yonge–University–Spadina line is the current longest right?
If you're talking about route, then the current ranking would be:

1. Vancouver Millennium Line - 42 km
2. Calgary NW/South Line (201) - 33 km
3. Toronto Yonge–University–Spadina - 30 km
4. Montreal Line 2 (Orange) - 30 km
5. Vancouver Expo Line - 29 km
6. Toronto Bloor-Danforth - 26 km
7. Montreal Line 1 (Green) - 22 km
8. Edmonton LRT (201) - 21 km
9. Vancouver Canada (Airport) - 15 km
10. Calgary NE Line (202) - 15 km
11. Vancouver Canada (Richmond) - 14 km
12. Montreal Line 5 (Blue) - 10 km
13. Ottawa O-Train - 8 km
14. Toronto Scarborough RT - 6 km
15. Toronto Sheppard Line - 6 km
16. Montreal Line 4 (Yellow) - 4 km

By 2017, the list will become (Top 10):

1. Toronto Yonge–University–Spadina - 39 km
2. Calgary NW/South Line (201) - 35 km
3. Montreal Line 2 (Orange) - 30 km
4. Vancouver Expo Line - 29 km
5. Vancouver Millennium Line - 28 km
6. Toronto Bloor-Danforth - 26 km
7. Vancouver Evergreen Line - 26 km
8. Calgary NE/West Line (202) - 26 km
9. Montreal Line 1 (Green) - 22 km
10. Edmonton LRT (201) - 21 km

Looking at very long term, assuming with alternative 1A and UBC Skytrain:

1. Toronto Yonge–University–Spadina - 46 km
2. Vancouver Expo Line - 45 km
3. Calgary North/SE Line (203?) - 42 km
4. Montreal Line 2 (Orange) - 41 km
5. Waterloo Region LRT - 41 km
6. Calgary NW/South Line (201) - 41 km
7. Vancouver Evergreen/UBC Line - 38 km
8. Calgary NE/West Line (202) - 36 km
...... everything shorter than 35km are ignored ......

Last edited by nname; Jun 26, 2012 at 5:14 PM.
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  #1282  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 8:10 AM
andasen andasen is offline
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^^^
Minor correction you swapped the NW and NE around for Calgary's lines should read NW-S and NE-W.

Wow, will say I'm mildly suprised that Millenium Line still is in top five once the evergreen line opens and takes over a massive chunk of its route, the route from Columbia to King George vs Columbia to Lougheed feels longer than just a single kilometer.
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  #1283  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 8:19 AM
nname nname is offline
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Originally Posted by andasen View Post
^^^
Minor correction you swapped the NW and NE around for Calgary's lines should read NW-S and NE-W.

Wow, will say I'm mildly suprised that Millenium Line still is in top five once the evergreen line opens and takes over a massive chunk of its route, the route from Columbia to King George vs Columbia to Lougheed feels longer than just a single kilometer.
Fixed, thanks.

Well, there's only a minute difference in travel time between Columbia-King George and Columbia-Lougheed.
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  #1284  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Xerx View Post
Yeah, at about 43 km or so it would be the longest metro line in Canada. Yonge–University–Spadina line is the current longest right?
Yep it is the current longest, and being extended right now to go from 30.2km to 38.8km. If the Expo line is completed before any more YUS extensions it would be the longest however there is another ~8km extension envisioned for Yonge St that would probably put YUS back on top.

In reality though YUS is a giant U joining at union station so it is almost 2 separate lines. In fact it was built as two separate lines as well so it doesn't seem nearly as long a line as expo even though it functions as though it is.
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  #1285  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 4:01 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Originally Posted by nname View Post
Not sure which route you're taking...

I measured 12km from Downtown to Metrotown, and 17km from Surrey Central to Langley Centre...
Sounds like he was calculating the round trip.
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  #1286  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Yep it is the current longest, and being extended right now to go from 30.2km to 38.8km. If the Expo line is completed before any more YUS extensions it would be the longest however there is another ~8km extension envisioned for Yonge St that would probably put YUS back on top.

In reality though YUS is a giant U joining at union station so it is almost 2 separate lines. In fact it was built as two separate lines as well so it doesn't seem nearly as long a line as expo even though it functions as though it is.
Hmm.. I somehow read it wrong and thought the Spadina extension is only 6.4km (which only include the Toronto section). The figure is now fixed and the total distance from Vaughan to Richmond Hill via Union would be 45.6km. Expo extension to Langley (Fraser @ 204/Glover) would be 45.1km
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  #1287  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 5:59 PM
Zassk Zassk is offline
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Originally Posted by nname View Post
If you're talking about route, then the current ranking would be:

1. Vancouver Millennium Line - 42 km
A dubious claim since this label just includes 90% of Expo Line. I am not a fan of this system of double-labelling a track, and I hope it goes away after Evergreen is built.

(Imagine if the Canada Line has been labelled as two new lines from the start... would outsiders accept that Vancouver added 32 km of new lines in 2009?)
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  #1288  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
A dubious claim since this label just includes 90% of Expo Line. I am not a fan of this system of double-labelling a track, and I hope it goes away after Evergreen is built.

(Imagine if the Canada Line has been labelled as two new lines from the start... would outsiders accept that Vancouver added 32 km of new lines in 2009?)
That will be one new line and 2 new routes (note - Canada Line is counted as two separate routes of 14km and 15km in the list)

Like I said on the post - these are route lengths, not line lengths. It measures how far the train travels from end to end, not the artificial boundaries set by planning and construction years ago. This is just to be consistent with other cities. If you're just counting lines as they were built/planned, then the ranking would be much different - YUS line would separated into Yonge Line and Spadina Line at Union; Edmonton would have two lines (NE and South); Calgary would have 3 (NW, NE, S); Evergreen and Broadway would become two lines; Expo and Langley lines would probably be two separate lines too....
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  #1289  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 10:12 PM
tybuilding tybuilding is offline
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Originally Posted by Cypherus View Post
You are pretty much correct with the north side of Fraser Highway having just enough green-space to accommodate westbound lane shifts to the left. However, looking at the Fleetwood area on Google Maps, it is impossible for RRT to go through this corridor without extensive expropriation. Car dealership parking lots, other small business buildings, and even the FortisBC building borders the street with little to zero pivot for RRT development.
I think the south side is intended for the greenway as it already exists at 162-164 street.
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  #1290  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2012, 2:22 AM
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It should also be noted that a lot of that north side green space on Fraser is occupied by power lines. Either they'll have to make the train incredibly tall to clear them (and still, where would the support beams go?), or they'll have to redo the whole system. Granted, this might not be an issue anyway, because if I remember correctly Translink's website says that any Skytrain along Fraser would run down the middle of the street. I don't think that this is a great solution either, though; you'd have to get rid of the middle turning lane, and the track would have to weave on and off of the road for stations.
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  #1291  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2012, 7:13 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by Track View Post
It should also be noted that a lot of that north side green space on Fraser is occupied by power lines. Either they'll have to make the train incredibly tall to clear them (and still, where would the support beams go?), or they'll have to redo the whole system. Granted, this might not be an issue anyway, because if I remember correctly Translink's website says that any Skytrain along Fraser would run down the middle of the street. I don't think that this is a great solution either, though; you'd have to get rid of the middle turning lane, and the track would have to weave on and off of the road for stations.
There could still be separate turning lanes periodically under the guideway (like on Lougheed Hwy or Terminal Ave).
Stations could be in the middle of the street, but they would have to be very tall with mezzanines - like Brentwood Station.
That's why a side-of-the-road allignment is favoured these days - cheaper and more human in scale.
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  #1292  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 6:31 AM
CoryHolmes CoryHolmes is offline
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Did anybody go to the Canada Day party at Cloverdale? Apparently the City of Surrey had a full-size mockup of an LRT unit on display, with Empress Watts (worship, worship) pointing out that for the 2.2B that Translink says is needed for Skytrain, the city could do more with at-grade LRT.

This is awesome, but I prefer Skytrain
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  #1293  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 8:15 AM
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xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryHolmes View Post
Did anybody go to the Canada Day party at Cloverdale? Apparently the City of Surrey had a full-size mockup of an LRT unit on display, with Empress Watts (worship, worship) pointing out that for the 2.2B that Translink says is needed for Skytrain, the city could do more with at-grade LRT.

This is awesome, but I prefer Skytrain
Yep; I got to it early on but I saw no Empress Watts or anything from the city. Just the Rapid Transit Now display board seen before. Some news outlets have misinformed the public regarding this; this whole thing really wasn't anything much of the city's doing, it's just Bombardier trying to market a product. Perhaps the city invited them to brainwash some residents with the look and feel but it wasn't the city doing the presentation here, it was Bombardier. AFAIK they've presented the same mockup in Calgary and Edmonton (I asked) so it's not GVRD-exclusive at all.

One thing to know about the "LRT gives us more" claim is that it has not really been well-researched by the city and far from accurate. You might see a local initiative come out with a study on this in the next few days.
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  #1294  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 10:40 AM
juniorpnm juniorpnm is offline
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A LRT line (Whiterock > Newton > Surrey Central > 104 ave > Guildford) should complement a Langley skytrain extension.
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  #1295  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 10:38 PM
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I was there and happened to see Mayor Watts give a brief speech. One thing that struck me as very odd was that the guy from Bombardier said that the day's event was the first time they were unveiling their mock-up model of their Flexity Freedom LRV. What's confounding is that it was in a green livery with "Crosstown LRT: A TTC Metrolinx partnership" branding. The TTC and Metrolinx have been showing off the Crosstown LRT mock-up, so it isn't a stretch to guess that this is the same mock-up. How many could they have? Let alone in TTC livery?

Mayor Watts also said in the media scrum that for the $2.2B that Translink believes it may cost to put SkyTrain out to Langley City it could, instead, build several LRT lines and a BRT line for 2.1B. The 2.2B she quoted is a touch above Translink's 1.95B estimate in their Surrey Rapid Transit Study for RRT option 1.

Source:http://www.translink.ca/en/Be-Part-o...e-Designs.aspx

I think LRT is the way to go for some routes South of the Fraser, especially along King George Blvd, but I also think there's merit to extending SkyTrain to Newton and then BRT (later LRT) south of Newtown to Whiterock. This BRT (later LRT) line could also turn east at Newtown and head along Hwy 10 to Langley City with a stop at Cloverdale along the way. A B-Line BRT, and then LRT, also makes a lot of sense along 104 and along Fraser Highway to Langley City. If the resources can be mustered, I do think that extending SkyTrain to Langley City would serve the region well in the long-term.
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Last edited by SFUVancouver; Jul 2, 2012 at 11:39 PM.
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  #1296  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 11:07 PM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorpnm View Post
A LRT line (Whiterock > Newton > Surrey Central > 104 ave > Guildford) should complement a Langley skytrain extension.
I've been saying for a while that SkyTrain should be treated as the inter-city rapid transit spine connecting the GVRD cities together. Extending SkyTrain down the Fraser Highway to Langley (or futher east) adds to the catchment area for SkyTrain.

Surrey should be re-making itself as the 'downtown core' that people living in the South of Fraser cities and towns would prefer to commute to instead of Vancouver / Burnaby.

Within each South of Fraser city / town, there would be regular buses, BRT-style B-Line buses, or streetcar lines connecting the local districts to each other and to the nearest SkyTrain station on the Fraser Highway.
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  #1297  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2012, 3:28 AM
CoryHolmes CoryHolmes is offline
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The only problem I have with at-grade transit is that there are so many intersections going down King George that would have to be (somehow) rerouted or have train-crossings.

Having taken the C-Train in Calgary, I wasn't thrilled by that prospect. Grade-seperated transit won't have that problem of blocking off roads every 7-10 minutes.
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  #1298  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2012, 5:15 AM
WaxItYourself WaxItYourself is offline
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Originally Posted by CoryHolmes View Post
The only problem I have with at-grade transit is that there are so many intersections going down King George that would have to be (somehow) rerouted or have train-crossings.

Having taken the C-Train in Calgary, I wasn't thrilled by that prospect. Grade-seperated transit won't have that problem of blocking off roads every 7-10 minutes.
I think they would probably turn a few roads into right turn only.no left turn and keep the main roads as train crossings only, hopefully, using the same kind of thing that they have in Vancouver for the buses to let the lights know when one is coming..
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  #1299  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2012, 5:16 AM
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I still think Skytrain to newton with LRT/BRT to Langley is the way to go.
A future expansion of skytrain from Newton to Langley is always possible still. Sure it might ad an extra 5 mins at most on the trip compared to going straight down fraser. But the same can not be said about skytrain all the way out to Langley.
Also as coryholmes said with how many major roads cross King George blvd LRT could become a huge hassle for many people driving along or pass KGB. KGB has way more traffic then Fraser HWY does.
then tack on top of all that just newton alone pretty much has the population of both Langleys
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  #1300  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2012, 4:35 PM
Zassk Zassk is offline
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I think the Surrey LRT (Newton/Guildford) needs to be built first.

After Surrey itself is properly served and TOD is well underway at multiple town centres, only then should we attempt to provide service to far-flung Langley.

To me, Surrey LRT is a fundamental requirement to turning Surrey into an urban city. A Langley line would be a luxury, not a necessity, in terms of regional planning.

Put money toward Surrey LRT and then put money toward Broadway.
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