A Social Experiment

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I am curious; what are people's opinion of Ottawa's skyline? Please select one option from the poll and feel free to comment however you see fit.

Happy polling!

[eemy]

For what it's worth, I don't really think a poll like this on a skyscraper forum will address reidjr's point.

Addressing the poll: I don't find the skyline attractive at all; although, it can be very pretty from particular viewpoints, particularly when all the box is cropped out by a viewfinder. Fortunately, that's only a small aspect of the city.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

For what it's worth, I don't really think a poll like this on a skyscraper forum will address reidjr's point.

Addressing the poll: I don't find the skyline attractive at all; although, it can be very pretty from particular viewpoints, particularly when all the box is cropped out by a viewfinder. Fortunately, that's only a small aspect of the city.

It won't, since I made the poll overly simplistic and straight-forward. It'll still be interesting to see how this turns out.

For me, the skyline would be fine if we got a 40+ storey tower to cover up that horrendous brown/beige block building. I think it's Place Bell and it's the tallest building on the Ottawa side of the river.

[Kitchissippi]

How is this a "social experiment"? The skyline has nothing to do with quality of life nor will taller buildings necessarily make this city better. I'm thankful Ottawa isn't Houston.

[Mille Sabords]

I would say that the skyline could stand to use some variety in building heights and profiles, with a landmark tower that defines the city's image to complement the Peace Tower and counterbalance the town-crown duality.

[Uhuniau]

I'm not a big fan of skylinism. Ottawa would have been much better off with a lot less pointless BS "green space" and "open space", and a lot more five- and six- and maybe ten-storey buildings, of all uses, throughout the core, like large swathes of Paris or Dublin.

Or the Holt Plan. *sigh.*

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I'm not a big fan of skylinism. Ottawa would have been much better off with a lot less pointless BS "green space" and "open space", and a lot more five- and six- and maybe ten-storey buildings, of all uses, throughout the core, like large swathes of Paris or Dublin.

Or the Holt Plan. *sigh.*

I share you opinion. I'm much more of fan of style than height. And in regards to you liking the Paris and Dublin model, recent and current projects such as Central and Westboro Station appear to be aiming that way, which is fine by me. Having said that, I find the core needs some wimsical components... I would like to see a few 30-40 story towers as long as they had some design to them and were not of the box style which we've grown to settle for.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

I share you opinion. I'm much more of fan of style than height. And in regards to you liking the Paris and Dublin model, recent and current projects such as Central and Westboro Station appear to be aiming that way, which is fine by me. Having said that, I find the core needs some wimsical components... I would like to see a few 30-40 story towers as long as they had some design to them and were not of the box style which we've grown to settle for.

It would have been great if the Hudson Park towers had been taller.

Those are some attractive buildings, both in the large scale and in detail.

[Aylmer]

What's the Holt Plan?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

What's the Holt Plan?

It was the first federal master plan for Ottawa. I think it was released around 1915. From this, some of the federal parkways were developed and the area along the Rideau Canal was cleaned up. No doubt other things as well.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

What's the Holt Plan?

It was also known as the Bennett Plan, after the lead consultant, architect Edward Bennett. Herbert Holt was the chairman of the Federal Plan Commission charged with coming up with a plan for the capital by the Federal Government in 1913. Holt was a railway executive and it is notable that the Holt Plan included a rail and streetcar tunnel (cut and cover, I might add) under Wellington to connect the tracks on LeBreton Flats with those alongside the Rideau Canal. Had it been implemented it's quite likely that we would not have the Transitway and we would still have a downtown rail station.

https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...1915/index.htm

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Dado

It was also known as the Bennett Plan, after the lead consultant, architect Edward Bennett. Herbert Holt was the chairman of the Federal Plan Commission charged with coming up with a plan for the capital by the Federal Government in 1913. Holt was a railway executive and it is notable that the Holt Plan included a rail and streetcar tunnel (cut and cover, I might add) under Wellington to connect the tracks on LeBreton Flats with those alongside the Rideau Canal. Had it been implemented it's quite likely that we would not have the Transitway and we would still have a downtown rail station.

https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...1915/index.htm

Ugh, that would've been so much more preferable to what we have now.

As for being a fan of style rather than height, it seems to be a given that in Ottawa less height does not equate to the building having more style.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

I share you opinion. I'm much more of fan of style than height. And in regards to you liking the Paris and Dublin model, recent and current projects such as Central and Westboro Station appear to be aiming that way, which is fine by me. Having said that, I find the core needs some wimsical components... I would like to see a few 30-40 story towers as long as they had some design to them and were not of the box style which we've grown to settle for.

Wimsy was abolished in Ottawa by the little-known Wimsy (Abolition) Act of 1958. Look it up. That's why you can't even hang a perpendicular shop shingle on Bank Street.

[waterloowarrior]

More height would be nice, but even better would be more modern and less conservative architecture... too much 80s/90s/pomo stuff still going on. However buildings like Standard Life III, EDC, Mondrian, and Vanier Hall tower are looking good. Plus there are lots of good smaller projects surrounding the core like Central, Wabano Centre, and 360 Lofts.

[blackjagger]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

More height would be nice, but even better would be more modern and less conservative architecture... too much 80s/90s/pomo stuff still going on. However buildings like Standard Life III, EDC, Mondrian, and Vanier Hall tower are looking good. Plus there are lots of good smaller projects surrounding the core like Central, Wabano Centre, and 360 Lofts.

Hopefully we have turned a corner with design. Even new condos like Charlsefort's Lisgar proposal and Claridge's Tribeca will add alittle flar to the skyline. What would be great is a signature tower (or two, I know I'm greedy) something that IS ottawa's skyline, hell with the even 90m box of aview a 135M - 150M tower would soar.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Dado

It was also known as the Bennett Plan, after the lead consultant, architect Edward Bennett. Herbert Holt was the chairman of the Federal Plan Commission charged with coming up with a plan for the capital by the Federal Government in 1913. Holt was a railway executive and it is notable that the Holt Plan included a rail and streetcar tunnel (cut and cover, I might add) under Wellington to connect the tracks on LeBreton Flats with those alongside the Rideau Canal. Had it been implemented it's quite likely that we would not have the Transitway and we would still have a downtown rail station.

https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...1915/index.htm

I have seen a version of this railway tunnel (I have a printed map somewhere that I obtained from the National Archives) and I am of the opinion that this would have ruined downtown Ottawa. Basically, the version I have seen had the tunnel only running from Bank Street to just beyond today's Confederation Square. We would have been left with a railway trench west of Bank Street and railways on both sides of the Rideau Canal, rendering it inaccessible for recreation purposes. I am so thankful that this did not happen.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

As for being a fan of style rather than height, it seems to be a given that in Ottawa less height does not equate to the building having more style.

The reverse hardly seems to be the case, either, though. The most attractive buildings we have are generally several storeys high and were built in the last part of the 19th century and early 20th century. They're neither new nor tall.

Taller buildings just seem to lead to taller versions of the same style-less buildings. The problem isn't really height but the nature of the market in Ottawa.

Ottawa doesn't have any head offices of significance, so unlike, say, Calgary, there are few if any buildings built to impress. Most of the private sector occupants downtown are relatively small local offices or various NGOs and lobbyists. Government departments, which at one point in history built to impress no longer do so and haven't really done so for decades (EDC might just be the exception that proves the rule). So both the private and public sector tenants of our downtown are generally happy to be put up in bland buildings with rent as cheap as possible. More height just allows for more storeys of the same blandness to be added on.

Only amongst people buying condos can we really hope to see better design because what one lives in matters.

[lrt's friend]

I am not a big fan of big towers and in downtown Ottawa's context, it would be a mistake. The Parliament Buildings have outstanding architecture, and fancy modern towers would detract from them, always drawing the eye to the tall instead of the best. I prefer buildings of a more human scale to create a more European flavour.

If we want those high towers, create a secondary downtown somewhere well away from our current downtown. This may be necessary anyways since our current downtown is so constricted. This would need to be at the intersection of at least two rapid transit lines, which will never be built with our current plan. Bayview is too close to downtown and too small an area.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have seen a version of this railway tunnel (I have a printed map somewhere that I obtained from the National Archives) and I am of the opinion that this would have ruined downtown Ottawa. Basically, the version I have seen had the tunnel only running from Bank Street to just beyond today's Confederation Square. We would have been left with a railway trench west of Bank Street and railways on both sides of the Rideau Canal, rendering it inaccessible for recreation purposes. I am so thankful that this did not happen.

That's not the understanding I have from either the pictures on the site or from the written plan itself. The west bank of the Canal appears to be completely free of railways; the area of the Canal around City Hall was to be open and accessible:

https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go.../drawing6B.htm

On the tunnel, it took me a bit longer since none of the diagrams show an obvious portal but I did read the following line in the text from p. 97:

"The plan presented and recommended for adoption is shown on
Drawings Nos. 11, 12, 13 and 26. It consists basically of the construction
of a tunnel from the Grand Trunk Station to Broad Street. This tunnel,
connected with the east focal point by the Grand Trunk, and with the west
focal point by the Canadian Pacific main line to Carleton Place, will form
the trunk line through Ottawa. This trunk line passes through the two
areas described as especially fitted for railway uses."

https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...Ottawa1915.pdf

The best drawing is #26, which doesn't show a portal at Bank:

https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...awing%2026.jpg

I'm not sure where but I've seen a better version of this drawing somewhere. Where the railway and streetcar lines cross at Sparks east of Bronson they have the respective elevations listed but I can't read them on this image. Anyway, as you can see Broad Street is west of Rochester Street on LeBreton Flats.


It's possible you might have seen something related to the streetcar lines, since they do turn off Wellington at Bank?

[Dado]

It turns out that waterloowarrior posted it in the thread on "What could have been":

Downtown Subway Alignment (Click to enlarge).


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...6&postcount=50