Does 'Canada' end at Lake of the Woods?

[flar]

I've been to almost every main city in Canada, from coast to coast. It's all the same country.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

How are the differences between Ontario and Alberta any different than the differences between, say Massachusetts and Idaho?

\Thread

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I must post this video because Alberta

• Video Link

What does this have to do with anything being discussed in this thread.

[kool maudit]

Of course not. But "the Canadas" were Upper and Lower, and the other regions were other things until more recently. I swear you can still kind of feel that (I know that my Mom's family take their Maritimer bit more seriously that the CanCon stuff), but that would mean history matters, even lingers.

Not sure that's the spirit of the age.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Of course not. But "the Canadas" were Upper and Lower, and the other regions were other things until more recently. I swear you can still kind of feel that (I know that my Mom's family take their Maritimer bit more seriously that the CanCon stuff), but that would mean history matters, even lingers.

Not sure that's the spirit of the age.

Just to keep things in perspective.

ON + QC is close to two thirds of Canada's population. Not 40 years ago. Right now.

The six provinces east of Manitoba are close to 70% of Canada's population.

[Trans Canada]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I must post this video because Alberta

• Video Link

A relevant bit of trivia about this song:

The band [Big Sugar, based in Toronto] broke up in 2004, after, according to the band website, Johnson became frustrated with Canadian radio programmers who claimed his single "All Hell for a Basement" was "too Canadian" (the song references the province of Alberta). (link)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Trans Canada

A relevant bit of trivia about this song:

The band [Big Sugar, based in Toronto] broke up in 2004, after, according to the band website, Johnson became frustrated with Canadian radio programmers who claimed his single "All Hell for a Basement" was "too Canadian" (the song references the province of Alberta). (link)

I and many others have long suspected this about Canadian radio. Which explains why there are so few songs that refer to places in Canada. Not that every one of them should (obviously not), but there really aren't that many. Though some artists like The Tragically Hip make a point of including references to Canadian places. Most Canadian artists avoid such references like the plague. Likely for this reason.

[SignalHillHiker]

I find the opposite. I don't have a good understanding of which artists are Canadian excluding locals, but I love noticed a lot of jarring Canadian references on the radio - especially cliche ones. That faux hip hop song about Canada was on all the time about local women having a full set of teeth, etc. (It was aimed at an American audience).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I find the opposite. I don't have a good understanding of which artists are Canadian excluding locals, but I love noticed a lot of jarring Canadian references on the radio - especially cliche ones. That faux hip hop song about Canada was on all the time about local women having a full set of teeth, etc. (It was aimed at an American audience).

You really find there are a lot of songs that reference Canada on the radio? Non-Newfoundland and non-French ones?

[esquire]

Yet another thread dedicated to the Canadian fetish about how your region is not like the rest of Canada.

Hey Nunavut guys, it's about time you stepped in to remind us of how your ties to Greenland dwarf any trivial connections you might have to Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ue

Would you mind expanding further on the bolded part? I think Canada overall is decently cohesive despite its vastness and I think it's largely due to how homogeneous we are, but I wouldn't say we are more cohesive than the US or Australia. Both of these places seem far more unified and assured of themselves nationally.

I didn't really say Canada (or Anglo-Canada) is more cohesive than the US or Australia. Just that it's not significantly less cohesive.

Yes, both the US and Australia definitely have a more clearly defined identity and culture whereas Canada's (Anglo-Canada's) is more diffuse and hard to pin down.

But in spite of this I don't find it to be very disconnected or fractious as a coast-to-coast society.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You really find there are a lot of songs that reference Canada on the radio? Non-Newfoundland and non-French ones?

It's becoming more common. Drake constantly name-drops Toronto. Classified name-drops Halifax. Joel Plaskett mentions Halifax often as well as many other Canadian cities, as does Matt Mays. Sam Robers references Montreal. Matt Good has an album called "Vancouver". Nelly Furtado often makes subtle references to Victoria. Corb Lund's albums play out like Heritage Minute compilations. And then of course there are the Hip, Blue Rodeo, etc.

[Wooster]

I think someone in Calgary's Hillhurst/Sunnyside neighbourhood near downtown is closer culturally to someone living in Toronto's Annex than say someone living in Didsbury, Alberta (about 2500km closer).

Similarly, people in say Calgary's Panorama Hills community are closer culturally to people in say Markham, Ontario than someone in Banff.

[ciudad_del_norte]

I think there is more value to the OP than some are admitting. The difference, I have found between different parts of the U.S. and different parts of Canada is the sense of common narrative linking everything together.

I'm not sure that everybody that lies within the narrative of "Canada" (eastern part of the country) really understands the general sense of cultural disconnect from this narrative in much of the west. Just because everyday life is really not all that different accross the divide does not bridge that gap. Idaho and New England. have a story and manifest destiny that for the most part seem to bind the country as destined to be together despite many differences. I've said it before, but even in the history books there is seems to be a sense that Canadas "true" history is in the East.

What is our narrative then? "Canada" was created and much of the west was later added as afterthought/land grab for resources as previously mentioned. I think that has fundamentally impacted the way we think/operate as a nation. And yes, while BC certainly has some differences from the prairies, I think the desire to link itself more with "Canada" is less about belonging to the Canadian narrative than it is to try to avoid any association with the provinces it believes itself to be superior to.

For what it's worth, I think the politics of AB are ridiculous and typically think they are full of BS. That being said, I do understand them to a certain level. There are reasons that a province can elect a Majority NDP government and only vote in 5 non conservative MPs federally and it has a lot to do with these dynamics.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

It's becoming more common. Drake constantly name-drops Toronto. Classified name-drops Halifax. Joel Plaskett mentions Halifax often as well as many other Canadian cities, as does Matt Mays. Sam Robers references Montreal. Matt Good has an album called "Vancouver". Nelly Furtado often makes subtle references to Victoria. Corb Lund's albums play out like Heritage Minute compilations. And then of course there are the Hip, Blue Rodeo, etc.

I agree that we're seeing this more and more.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yet another thread dedicated to the Canadian fetish about how your region is not like the rest of Canada.

Hey Nunavut guys, it's about time you stepped in to remind us of how your ties to Greenland dwarf any trivial connections you might have to Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

I think there is more value to the OP than some are admitting. The difference, I have found between different parts of the U.S. and different parts of Canada is the sense of common narrative linking everything together.

I'm not sure that everybody that lies within the narrative of "Canada" (eastern part of the country) really understands the general sense of cultural disconnect from this narrative in much of the west. Just because everyday life is really not all that different accross the divide does not bridge that gap. Idaho and New England. have a story and manifest destiny that for the most part seem to bind the country as destined to be together despite many differences. I've said it before, but even in the history books there is seems to be a sense that Canadas "true" history is in the East.

What is our narrative then? "Canada" was created and much of the west was later added as afterthought/land grab for resources as previously mentioned. I think that has fundamentally impacted the way we think/operate as a nation. And yes, while BC certainly has some differences from the prairies, I think the desire to link itself more with "Canada" is less about belonging to the Canadian narrative than it is to try to avoid any association with the provinces it believes itself to be superior to.

For what it's worth, I think the politics of AB are ridiculous and typically think they are full of BS. That being said, I do understand them to a certain level. There are reasons that a province can elect a Majority NDP government and only vote in 5 non conservative MPs federally and it has a lot to do with these dynamics.

This is a good post. One of the things about Canada is the cultural underpinnings of the country are extremely weak, and in most countries the culture (incl. pop culture) is an important driver of the narrative and buy-in to the narrative. Think of Americans of very non-British origins living in tropical climates buying into the founding fathers, the original 13 colonies, Paul Revere, Boston Tea Party, first Thanksgiving between the Pilgrims and the natives, etc. narrative. Framed in this way, it's no more relevant to them than maple syrup is to BCers...

The miracle of Canada may lie in the fact that in spite of this absence of narrative (and even in Ontario BTW the Canadian narrative as you may envision it is not particularly strong), buy-in to the ''Canadian'' brand and identity remains very strong and shared pretty widely across most of the country, and there is very little open hostility to it.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

I think there is more value to the OP than some are admitting. The difference, I have found between different parts of the U.S. and different parts of Canada is the sense of common narrative linking everything together.

I'm not sure that everybody that lies within the narrative of "Canada" (eastern part of the country) really understands the general sense of cultural disconnect from this narrative in much of the west. Just because everyday life is really not all that different accross the divide does not bridge that gap. Idaho and New England. have a story and manifest destiny that for the most part seem to bind the country as destined to be together despite many differences. I've said it before, but even in the history books there is seems to be a sense that Canadas "true" history is in the East.

What is our narrative then? "Canada" was created and much of the west was later added as afterthought/land grab for resources as previously mentioned. I think that has fundamentally impacted the way we think/operate as a nation. And yes, while BC certainly has some differences from the prairies, I think the desire to link itself more with "Canada" is less about belonging to the Canadian narrative than it is to try to avoid any association with the provinces it believes itself to be superior to.

For what it's worth, I think the politics of AB are ridiculous and typically think they are full of BS. That being said, I do understand them to a certain level. There are reasons that a province can elect a Majority NDP government and only vote in 5 non conservative MPs federally and it has a lot to do with these dynamics.

I wonder if a lot of this can fall into the Population Imbalance East to West. As was pointed out, East of Manitoba STILL has 70% of the population, so naturally a lot of "Canadianism" is going to be concentrated where most of the population is.

We don't see this as much in the States because it has California (and Texas and Washington) to 'weigh down' the West side of the country population-wise. (Plus California has turned itself into such a Cultural generator that it tends to set the tone for USian culture).

In Canada, Toronto still feels like it is our cultural centre, with strong nodes in Montreal and Vancouver, and then flavour nodes in Newfoundland, Halifax, Calgary and so forth. Thus we're still heavily anchored on T.O by just about every means you can measure.

This will probably stay the same until the West can grow enough to balance things out. That means not just population wise (but that is probably the biggest factor and the easiest to grow) but also historical and culturally (which will happen with time at its own speed).

[SignalHillHiker]

And even then there's more of us reflected in what comes back to us from the larger centres. I've no doubt the most popular TO-made show here is Rick Mercer Report, because he's from here. I've no doubt the most popular HFX-made show here is This Hour has 22 Minutes, because the cast is all from here.

CBC's most popular show here (excluding local evening news) ever, was Republic of Doyle. It beat Codco and Wonderful Grand Band, also local.

That's what Canadian entertainment does well. But Canadian shows without a direct local connection rarely do well here, or anywhere, right? The Americans do that type of entertaining better.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And even then there's more of us reflected in what comes back to us from the larger centres. I've no doubt the most popular TO-made show here is Rick Mercer Report, because he's from here. I've no doubt the most popular HFX-made show here is This Hour has 22 Minutes, because the cast is all from here.

CBC's most popular show here (excluding local evening news) ever, was Republic of Doyle. It beat Codco and Wonderful Grand Band, also local.

That's what Canadian entertainment does well. But Canadian shows without a direct local connection rarely do well here, or anywhere, right? The Americans do that type of entertaining better.

I think that historically, culture in Anglo-Canada has kind of been like this (in order):

1 - Local culture

2 - American culture (kind of standing in for the "national" even if technically foreign)

3- Canadian national culture generally produced out of Toronto (the official "national'' culture of course but often playing second fiddle to the American one)

What I have noticed of late is that ''3'' (Toronto-driven, national Canadian culture) is starting to gain on the other two and is nibbling away at their historical advantages.