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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:01 PM
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lio... I think your perspective is also influenced by having a parent from France. (I believe you have mentioned this before.)

As such, the differences between Quebec and France, coming from some kind of hypothesis that they might be similar, may have been highlighted throughout your life in a way that they were not for me.

To me, France was always a totally foreign country and we heard very little about it and its culture in my family. Even less than in Quebec where you have French people on talk shows all the time, French movies in cinemas, French music on the radio and actual immigrants and visitors from France in fairly large numbers.

This has changed a little bit for francophones outside Quebec in recent years but as a kid France was virtually invisible.

Even many elements of Québécois culture were fairly invisible to me growing up.

I kid you not but even though I could speak French, I first learned of stuff like Starmania, Robert Charlebois, Roch Voisine, Félix Leclerc, Surprise sur surprise (Marcel Béliveau was a big star over there), etc. in France from the people in France I met who wanted to talk to me about it. It was actually a bit embarrassing as I had the accent to their ears so they automatically expected me to be aware of all this stuff.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:02 PM
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I don't either unless he's talking about Hallandalle-Hollywood-Pompano Beach which is like the Petit Québec in the winter. Hawkers selling the Journal de Montréal on the beach and all...
No, that's just different, it's like a little expat bubble of Quebec, doesn't really count.

I see a ton of Quebec and Ontario license plates around (Brevard generally, generally on the barrier island, places like Cocoa Beach) and plenty of Northeastern plates as well. Saw one Nova Scotia too so far. Culturally, this area is pretty generic, if you compare to rural northern Florida (by far the most southern area of FL in character).
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:03 PM
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No, that's just different, it's like a little expat bubble of Quebec, doesn't really count.

.
That's almost ''too easy''!
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:06 PM
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Florida definitely has a familiarity but I think that's because so many people from ''here'' have been going ''there'' for so long.

Which I suppose is a definition of familiarity when you think about it.
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Geographically speaking, yes - the proper answer would be Russia and/or Scandinavia.

The better response however would have to be based on ethnocultural considerations, and this would be somewhat dependent upon which part of Canada you are from. I have a sneaking suspicion that in western Canada and southwestern Ontario, the answer would be the USA. For obvious reasons, the answer for Quebecois would be (northern) France. I've been to Europe a couple of times and have been struck by how much at home I feel in the UK, especially Scotland. I think a lot of people in eastern Ontario and Atlantic Canada would feel that way. The ethnocultural, political and sociological similarities just can't be ignored. The UK feels far more comfortable to me than the USA does.
Even a place like Maine?

Also, would you say this is still true for younger generations in the Maritimes?
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  #46  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:11 PM
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ok, i see what you are saying a bit more. but my habits from montreal are pretty much 100% the same in copenhagen, and i doubt they would be in florida. i guess that stuff has a lot to do with neighborhoods etc.
Totally agreed. If you're used to living in downtown Montreal then just moving an hour away to a village would be a shock in terms of habits. Copenhagen will certainly feel more like home in that regard.

For the record, I even preventively pointed it out earlier in the thread...

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It also depends where you look. Urban to urban, rural to rural, etc. has a big impact too. I'm always assuming apples to apples as much as possible.



So if we're looking at this on a country/country basis, you shouldn't compare Montreal to anywhere in Florida (or rural Scandinavia) but rather to NYC or Boston or Philly (or Copenhagen).
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  #47  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:19 PM
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Totally agreed. If you're used to living in downtown Montreal then just moving an hour away to a village would be a shock in terms of habits. Copenhagen will certainly feel more like home in that regard.
.
I am also pretty sure that if you went maybe 5-10 km from where kool lives you could find people living 97% similarly to the lifestyle in the suburbs of a major Canadian city: SFH with small backyard with a deck or patio for dining outside in the summer. One or two cars. Parents take transit to work if practical, if they work in a suburban office park they drive. They drive for groceries, shopping, IKEA, kids' activities, etc., and might sometimes take transit into the city centre for an evening or weekend outing there to save on parking charges. The kids walk to their friends' houses if they are close by but otherwise they get driven.
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
lio... I think your perspective is also influenced by having a parent from France. (I believe you have mentioned this before.)

As such, the differences between Quebec and France, coming from some kind of hypothesis that they might be similar, may have been highlighted throughout your life in a way that they were not for me.

To me, France was always a totally foreign country and we heard very little about it and its culture in my family. Even less than in Quebec where you have French people on talk shows all the time, French movies in cinemas, French music on the radio and actual immigrants and visitors from France in fairly large numbers.

This has changed a little bit for francophones outside Quebec in recent years but as a kid France was virtually invisible.

Even many elements of Québécois culture were fairly invisible to me growing up.

I kid you not but even though I could speak French, I first learned of stuff like Starmania, Robert Charlebois, Roch Voisine, Félix Leclerc, Surprise sur surprise (Marcel Béliveau was a big star over there), etc. in France from the people in France I met who wanted to talk to me about it. It was actually a bit embarrassing as I had the accent to their ears so they automatically expected me to be aware of all this stuff.
Yes, my dad is French, as I mentioned in the past. We have relatives visit us once in a while and vice versa (though it's been years since I last went). Even compared to typical Quebecois (let alone you as a kid) I'm way more aware/connected culturally to our Old World cousins. (In my case, literally cousins.)

For them it must have felt weird to meet a French-speaking Canadian who wasn't actually one (to them)... it's not something that exists to the average Frenchman.
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  #49  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:37 PM
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Yes, my dad is French, as I mentioned in the past. We have relatives visit us once in a while and vice versa (though it's been years since I last went). Even compared to typical Quebecois (let alone you as a kid) I'm way more aware/connected culturally to our Old World cousins. (In my case, literally cousins.)

For them it must have felt weird to meet a French-speaking Canadian who wasn't actually one (to them)... it's not something that exists to the average Frenchman.
Do you do a (conscious or unconscious) accent switch with them? I know a few people like that. When speaking with us they speak just like we do, and then when they're with their family the accent is totally different.
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:41 PM
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Even a place like Maine?

Also, would you say this is still true for younger generations in the Maritimes?
Yes, even Maine (unless you are talking about down east Washington County Maine. Even as close as Bangor, the accents are different, the vegetation is different and the "feel" of the place is different. Scotland really does seem more like home.

I don't know for sure, but I would think these perceptions might even be stronger for younger generation Maritimers. In the last century, many Maritimers moved south for a time, and had strong family connections to New England. You don't see that nearly as much any more. Going down the road used to mean the "Boston States", now it means Ontario or Alberta.
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:43 PM
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I vote for Israel.

Haha, just kidding. Obviously the US, hands down, geographically and culturally. In a nod to regional quirkiness, Quebec gets to add France and Belgium, while NL gets Ireland and Norway.
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:44 PM
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Strangely enough, I was actually introduced to mainstream (outside of nursery rhymes and such) French Canadian (Québécois, really, as it's the source of 95% of it) culture by people from France when I was in France.

And just thinking of it, but I was actually initially introduced to most of the Acadian culture (both my parents are Acadian) by Québécois friends I started to hang out with in my 20s in bars and cafés on the Gatineau side of the Ottawa River.
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  #53  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:55 PM
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MonctonRad: I have a slightly different perspective. I do agree that Europe can be a closest match for a Canadian region. I've never been anywhere off the island that felt as home as Ireland. It's not identical, of course - but it has the same heart. It's as similar to us as France is to St-Pierre-et-Miquelon. Politically it's not a good comparison of course but... Just the core is the same. Paddy's Day and Orangemen's Day are public holidays here, all the little things like that just combine to create the sense were the same people. Like that chef said - we're as though Ireland had an empire. There's just an... Effortless ease. There's no awkwardness. There's no misunderstanding. It's like hanging with family as opposed to recent friends

But beyond that... The more I reflect on it, the less sure I am how to rank the UK, Maritimes, and New England in terms of being similar to us. In some areas, Maritimes is last; in others, first. There are a lot of differences. And in some places they're strong enough to overshadow any similarity and make the overall impression feel completely different. Whether it's a sense of entitlement or a seriousness or whatever else... There are pockets of the Maritimes that feel more different from here than, say, Saskatchewan. We tend to get along quite well. Like that doctor from Regina said on his speaking tour: our two provinces are similar. For one thing, were the two provinces that every Canadian knows someone from without ever having been there. Etc.

But again we are focussed in on the minutiae so that makes these differences seem larger than they are.
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  #54  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 5:19 PM
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MonctonRad: I have a slightly different perspective. I do agree that Europe can be a closest match for a Canadian region. I've never been anywhere off the island that felt as home as Ireland. It's not identical, of course - but it has the same heart. It's as similar to us as France is to St-Pierre-et-Miquelon. Politically it's not a good comparison of course but... Just the core is the same. Paddy's Day and Orangemen's Day are public holidays here, all the little things like that just combine to create the sense were the same people. Like that chef said - we're as though Ireland had an empire. There's just an... Effortless ease. There's no awkwardness. There's no misunderstanding. It's like hanging with family as opposed to recent friends

But beyond that... The more I reflect on it, the less sure I am how to rank the UK, Maritimes, and New England in terms of being similar to us. In some areas, Maritimes is last; in others, first. There are a lot of differences. And in some places they're strong enough to overshadow any similarity and make the overall impression feel completely different. Whether it's a sense of entitlement or a seriousness or whatever else... There are pockets of the Maritimes that feel more different from here than, say, Saskatchewan. We tend to get along quite well. Like that doctor from Regina said on his speaking tour: our two provinces are similar. For one thing, were the two provinces that every Canadian knows someone from without ever having been there. Etc.

But again we are focussed in on the minutiae so that makes these differences seem larger than they are.
This is a reflection of the fact that these discussions are just for fun. There can never be a scientific conclusion. Everything can be rolled up into ''similarity'' or broken down into ''different''.

My municipal ward for city council has differences between the part that is up the hill and the part that is down the hill... as the locals and they will tell you.
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  #55  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 5:33 PM
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Elementary school teacher from Rimouski, speaks only basic English (for ordering food and asking directions). Bachelor's degree. Middle class.

Easier social scene fit with average elementary school teacher, middle class university-educated unilingual English speaker in Scranton, Pennsylvania, or Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, or someone with a similar profile in Reims, France?
Easier social scene fit, Reims, for reasons of language. Similarity of culture and lifestyle? Scranton or Moose Jaw by a country mile.
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  #56  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 5:36 PM
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Spain, then?
Not a great model (some would say) in that everyone in Spain speaks Castillian as a first or, possibly, second language.
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  #57  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 5:39 PM
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I grew up in BC and have lived in Alberta for 17 years now. Never anywhere else in Canada. To me, the west is my Canadian experience. I've been to Toronto and Ottawa and I guess theres a Canadianness to them (not saying they're not Canadian, just in my experience Canada is AB and BC).

So for me, a lot of the western USA is more similar to Canada than Canada is. Of course, when traveling, I'd rather get sick in Toronto than Seattle. When traveling in the US (western US that is) the only time it really feels like I'm in another country are the moments that I'm talking to the border gaurd. For the most part, things look the same, people talk the same, most of the stores are the same. The only time the locals know I'm from somewhere else is if I have to show ID for something.

A friend from the UK who lives here describes Canada as USA lite.
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  #58  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 5:49 PM
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Easier social scene fit, Reims, for reasons of language. Similarity of culture and lifestyle? Scranton or Moose Jaw by a country mile.
Not saying I disagree but I'd like you to elaborate (if you care to).

Food, TV, movies, music, literature, theatre, sports, fashion, sexuality, outlook on life, folk and family traditions, belief systems, religiosity, etc.

That's culture to me.

So, whaddaya say?
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  #59  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 6:01 PM
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I don't know why people keep saying that Quebecois are like the French. They are way more American than anything else. It's like saying Australians are like the British because they speak English.
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  #60  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 6:04 PM
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You know, I was just thinking about it and nowhere in the world do people dissociate language from culture like Canada, and especially Anglo-Canada.

I mean, I understand why that is, with internal separatist pressures within the country, and the hegemonic presence of the US to the south, but it's really unique to have a pretty strong majority view say that language is a relatively minor cultural definer, whereas most anywhere else in the world people will all agree that it's super-important.

It's not that uncommon to hear people say language *is* culture.

Unless you are SignalHillHiker, you don't really say that in Anglo-Canada.
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