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  #21781  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 5:12 AM
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^Almost surprising? Baffling. Who does a three-unit apartment building? Or voluntarily wades into restoring a building this far gone and covered in porcelain enamel panels? Something's odd about this whole project.
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  #21782  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 6:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
?? The base is terrible.
Um. How?

It's a CMK property, first of all. Second, it's designed by Brininstool and Lynch. What have the ever done that isn't stellar???
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  #21783  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
?? The base is terrible.
You know there's another building going up against that wall, right?
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  #21784  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^Almost surprising? Baffling. Who does a three-unit apartment building? Or voluntarily wades into restoring a building this far gone and covered in porcelain enamel panels? Something's odd about this whole project.
You've never seen a 3-flat? Anyway, the total is 28 units overall, but the two-story building on the corner can only hold three. I'm guessing it needs a separate entrance because the floor heights don't line up, so it's being considered a separate building.

I don't know about the drugstore, though. They'd be giving up parking and cramming into an awkward older building, all to gain access to a South Loop market where they already have several nearby stores.
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  #21785  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 3:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
Um. How?

It's a CMK property, first of all. Second, it's designed by Brininstool and Lynch. What have the ever done that isn't stellar???
uhh, a number of very questionably detailed buildings... that condo tower over near the circle interchange and the one in streeterville both are less then stellar overall and both have details that are just plain bad...

the new greek museum... totally phoned that design in
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  #21786  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
Second, it's designed by Brininstool and Lynch. What have the ever done that isn't stellar???
The first 40 feet of almost every single residential tower they have ever done.

1620 South Michigan
550 North Saint Clair
630 North Franklin
659 West Randolph

and soon to be 630 West Washington
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  #21787  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 5:46 PM
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I think 659 W Randolph is pretty nice. The podium is opaque but you don't notice because of the street trees. The podium is broken up by the residential lobby too.
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  #21788  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 7:41 PM
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^^^ What the hell is wrong with you guys??? You all drool over Trump Tower while dissing buildings like 1620 S Michigan?! That's one of the nicest buildings built in the years!

The case against 550 is a bit unfair. It's really a case against a parking base. The building itself is actually very nice, and the ground level is beautiful. One could nitpick and complain about the garage portion of the tower, but I would counter; the architect is only as strong as his developer. And in this case, I don't blame B+L for the garage. That being said, in no way do I think it's at all unsightly. Really, I think their treatment of the garage is fine and fairly creative. 5/10, not great, but not bad. Still, the rest of the building's beauty and well-designed ground level more than make up for it.

And I REALLY don't understand how anyone could complain about 630 N Franklin 659 W Randolph. Again, fantastic buildings. Simple and clean with fine details. Go stand at the base of each and explain to me how they aren't refreshing examples of how condo buildings should be built in this city... not to mention, they are awesome inside.

Now, if one is opposed to raw materials, simplicity, and elegant, modern design, then okay. I guess I understand why one wouldn't be a fan of B+L's work. But to that I would say: Lucien Lagrange has some wonderful new buildings for you to lust over.

So I'll step aside and let the Ritz-Carlton/2525 Lincoln Park lovers unite in their limestone and marble obsessed, post-modern clash with what is arguably the best, or at least top 3, architecture firms in the city. They are producing nothing but quality while upholding this city's long and heavily rooted modernist traditions. We need more B+L in Chicago. Period.
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  #21789  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 9:15 PM
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^ Yup, agreed. Parking podiums are a reality in this city. Brininstool + Lynch does an awesome job dealing with them and integrating them into the overall design. I'm more critical of 550 N Saint Clair than Mr. Servo, but for the rest I've got nothing but praise.
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  #21790  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2014, 11:53 PM
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Chinatown hotel

I passed by the Chinatown hotel a few hours ago and it looks to be up to about the 2nd floor. This is a 6 story building, right?

Incidentally, in this shitty & slushy day pedestrian traffic in Chinatown was pretty impressive, perhaps more than any of the other hoods that I was in.

I'm bullish about this district, and by the way as an investor it is very difficult to find anything for sale here (that is reasonably priced, that is). This area is resilient and growing. Too bad it seems that only See Wong is doing any of the development here. It would be nice to have people with perhaps more capital/more ties to financiers doing much of the developing in this neighborhood.
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  #21791  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 1:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
^ Yup, agreed. Parking podiums are a reality in this city. Brininstool + Lynch does an awesome job dealing with them and integrating them into the overall design. I'm more critical of 550 N Saint Clair than Mr. Servo, but for the rest I've got nothing but praise.
Thanks. At least someone on this forum good judgment and design sense.

In any event, yeah, I too would be more critical of 550 if it weren't for what is, IMO, a near perfect tower design and very well executed ground floor. It mitigates the cheap look of the parking podium. And like I said, I don't even think it's that bad. It houses cars for god's sake; not every garage can be Contemporaine...
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  #21792  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 6:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
the new greek museum... totally phoned that design in
National Hellenic Museum was by RTKL.
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  #21793  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 6:48 AM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I passed by the Chinatown hotel a few hours ago and it looks to be up to about the 2nd floor. This is a 6 story building, right?

Incidentally, in this shitty & slushy day pedestrian traffic in Chinatown was pretty impressive, perhaps more than any of the other hoods that I was in.

I'm bullish about this district, and by the way as an investor it is very difficult to find anything for sale here (that is reasonably priced, that is). This area is resilient and growing. Too bad it seems that only See Wong is doing any of the development here. It would be nice to have people with perhaps more capital/more ties to financiers doing much of the developing in this neighborhood.
It's been at the 2nd floor since Thanksgiving, unfortunately. 4 stories, and I think 72 rooms with ground floor retail.

As far as the neighborhood goes - I completely agree. Chinatown is putting together a development plan too and I took a questionairre a handful of months about it and what they could do to improve upon the area. I am there a decent amount and it's always pretty vibrant even when the weather is shit out. Last night I met up with a friend in Lincoln Park, but too late and all of the places around there were closing but we needed food. What did we do? We went to Chinatown, got there at 12:30am, and the place we went was still full of people eating. Hell, even Ming Hin has late night dim sum until like 2am, at least on weekends. It's one of those things that if people only knew about it, they'd have even more visitors going down there at night.

It's like the one neighborhood of the city that people who stay in their little corners of Streeterville, Lakeview, etc don't realize is actually pretty damn vibrant. Plus, you have some good food and there's a bunch of options late night there. The one thing I don't understand is how people who go out haven't dialed into the fact that Chinatown has a large handful of late night food places. You could easily be out in River North and decide you want some good, cheap ethnic food at 1am and take the red line down for 10 minutes and have a number of options.

If I was a business investor, I'd put a lounge in Chinatown, honestly. Not something that would attract a rowdy crowd, but something that would attract people. The neighborhood already has in place what it needs to be for a more 24 hour place. There are probably over 10-15 places that serve food after 1am or 2am there as it is. Really, if the area got more visitors and even more visitors past 11pm, I have no doubt that other businesses would change their hours to stay open later.

Honestly one of my favorite areas of town. Not all the food there is good, but there's interesting stuff, it's cheap, and it's different - and it's also late night. The place has some great vibrancy and people who aren't familiar with Chinatown would be surprised at how many people are in that area on most days.
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  #21794  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 8:06 AM
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National Hellenic Museum was by RTKL.
And it kicks ass.
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  #21795  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 3:27 PM
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Marothisu, thanks for your perspective. I note many similar things in the Devon corridor, albeit less focus on late night activities (S Asian societies just don't tend to do late night stuff).

Yet new developments there are also rare to get off the ground. For example, a building that burned down there several years ago continues to remain a weedy lot.

Are lenders just hesitant to support development in these areas? Could it be the conservative, Midwestern mentality that still has a difficult time embracing diversity?

I'm not going to opine about racism here because to some degree there is justification for this hesitation. I'm recent years there have been South Asian developers who have committed fraud and fled the country, and I'm sure lenders were burned by this. Those butt-faces unfortunately bring a mentality that 'being overly clever for the sake of being clever' is the route to success. I wonder if a newer generation of S. Asian investors raised in the US, and adjusted to America's straight forward way of life, can demonstrate more reliability to the lending world? And of course with Chinatown there is See Wong, who has had his own difficulties.
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  #21796  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
Thanks. At least someone on this forum good judgment and design sense.
In the highly individual opinion based world of architecture, Tom Servo is the only person who has good judgement and design sense, and he alone can verify which other forumers are correct or incorrect in their opinions.
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  #21797  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten View Post
Just so all are aware, in the individual opinion based world of architecture, Tom Servo is the only person who has good judgement and design sense, and he alone can verify which other forumers are correct or incorrect in their opinions.
Finally someone gets it!
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  #21798  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 4:37 PM
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Just needed to clarify for those who don't!
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  #21799  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 4:57 PM
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Just needed to clarify for those who don't!
I'm pretty sure most people take mental notes when they read my highly opinionated posts. Haha
I'm like the Dan Bernstein of this forum; I'm sure it's annoying as hell at times. Haha
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  #21800  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2014, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Marothisu, thanks for your perspective. I note many similar things in the Devon corridor, albeit less focus on late night activities (S Asian societies just don't tend to do late night stuff).

Yet new developments there are also rare to get off the ground. For example, a building that burned down there several years ago continues to remain a weedy lot.

Are lenders just hesitant to support development in these areas? Could it be the conservative, Midwestern mentality that still has a difficult time embracing diversity?

I'm not going to opine about racism here because to some degree there is justification for this hesitation. I'm recent years there have been South Asian developers who have committed fraud and fled the country, and I'm sure lenders were burned by this. Those butt-faces unfortunately bring a mentality that 'being overly clever for the sake of being clever' is the route to success. I wonder if a newer generation of S. Asian investors raised in the US, and adjusted to America's straight forward way of life, can demonstrate more reliability to the lending world? And of course with Chinatown there is See Wong, who has had his own difficulties.
I agree that Devon is also one of those areas that could be developed even more, but I think the answer is even more obvious. Well, I think there's two answers

1) Closeness to some areas - While West Ridge has a lot of people there, to be an even bigger destination, you draw people in from all over. Something Chinatown does is benefit from being so close to the downtown area.

2) Public transit and time of day - Now, it can be not too difficult to get to Devon as you take either the Red or Brown line and then bus it up there, but I think a lot of people are semi discouraged by it. My last girlfriend was from a country in SE Asia with a lot of Indian influence (I went to the country - best Indian food I've had by a mile, though I haven't been to India yet). When I told her about Devon, she was incredibly excited. Midway through the bus ride after a 30+ minute train ride, she was exhausted. Not everyone is going to be like this, but just a story. The other problem with it is the late night service of buses. There are a lot of late night things there I know of, but even from the red line on a Saturday, the bus isn't running even at 1am. You have to wait until 4:30 or 5am to get it. The brown line? Same thing, and the line stops running early enough for it to be a late night option for someone upon the Brown Line.

I think Devon is good for the areas around it, but to expand even more, I think either the buses to there would have to run later in the night, or the Brown Line would have to expand north on Kimball up to Devon (not right at California, but it's close). I think areas like "Koreatown" (what's left of it) and the newer Middle Eastern area around Kedzie and Kimball Brown Line stops benefit a little more.


As far as SE Asian investors go - I guess it depends on the country and all. One of the things I will say and I've hit on before is that companies' reluctance to spend a few thousand extra to provide someone with a VISA (or extend it) actually has some unintended consequences for our city's economy. In the case of my ex girlfriend, from SE Asia, who was here - nobody would sponsor her after awhile. Her family in SE Asia? Wealthy. For American standards they were deep in the 1%. Her father, an already successful international business founder and CEO, wanted to form business (restaurant, lounge) in Chicago as a way of giving an investment to his daughter. He was also going to buy an investment property in the form of apartment/condo building and get someone to manage it in Chicago for him. What happened? Pretty much a refusal to sponsor and it had nothing to do with merit. It had to do with them not wanting to spend a few thousand dollars. When she offered to pay for her share of it, they told her they didn't know what to do because they'd never done it before. A lot of firms were like this and wouldn't do it.

She also had a good number of friends from her country here (good number for one person), who pretty much all came from wealthy families as well. I know that a few of their parents wanted to do what my ex girlfriend's dad wanted to do - establish business in Chicago. Most of them couldn't get sponsorship either and returned to their home countries. No businesses formed whatsoever as a result because they couldn't stay in the US and their families didn't want to make a business where no family would be around.
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