Pattullo Bridge Rehabilitation Project

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jhausner

The money is coming from the tolling. The PST increase had to do with public transit mainly and regarding this bridge it would have meant likely not needing to add a toll. No PST means they will toll it to fund it.

PST increase = no toll on Patullo
No PST increase = toll

Either way it is getting built.

Truth of the batter is this is just another step forward toward segregating the region into two metro areas, NoF and SoF. You have a lot of people moving SoF and as a result of traffic, tolls, etc. and a non-regional pricing strategy, you have jobs also moving SoF for the workers here.

Regionally it isn't a terrible thing having people SoF work SoF and NoF working NoF. It really just penalizes those straddling the tolled connections so people living in New West working in Surrey for example or Coquitlam <> Surrey, Maple Ridge <> Langley and soon Richmond <> Delta. But people in Vancouver and Burnaby don't care I'm sure.

Do you have a source for this info? The is the first I've heard that the Patullo would not be tolled with additional Translink funding via PST or otherwise.

At any rate, it looks like the mayors are agreeing that tolling and road pricing is the future. I'd be *shocked* if the Patullo was built without tolling, when the GEB, PMB and GMT will all have it.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Do you have a source for this info? The is the first I've heard that the Patullo would not be tolled with additional Translink funding via PST or otherwise.

At any rate, it looks like the mayors are agreeing that tolling and road pricing is the future. I'd be *shocked* if the Patullo was built without tolling, when the GEB, PMB and GMT will all have it.

The Mayors Council Vision document from March 2015 says that the Pattullo would be tolled, and that was with additional revenue sources (which they had listed as carbon tax revenues and eventually mobility pricing, but that got replaced with the PST hike). So yeah, even with the PST hike the Pattullo would have been tolled.

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

This document says that the NWRB is owned by the Government of Canada and operated by CN. You can have the Wikipedia edit glory.

Thanks CanSpice! The article has been updated.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

The Mayors Council Vision document from March 2015 says that the Pattullo would be tolled, and that was with additional revenue sources (which they had listed as carbon tax revenues and eventually mobility pricing, but that got replaced with the PST hike). So yeah, even with the PST hike the Pattullo would have been tolled.

One reason drivers voted no is that they were told the Pattullo would be rebuilt either way, and there would be a toll either way. It's kind of hard to get them to vote yes after telling them that.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Sheba

One reason drivers voted no is that they were told the Pattullo would be rebuilt either way, and there would be a toll either way. It's kind of hard to get them to vote yes after telling them that.

But on what timetable? They'd be rebuilding now instead of this expensive rehabilitation to the existing bridge.

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by Sheba

One reason drivers voted no is that they were told the Pattullo would be rebuilt either way, and there would be a toll either way. It's kind of hard to get them to vote yes after telling them that.

Yeah I remember reading the pamphlet for the PST saying it be tolled when replace still. See I think that was the biggest mistake had they said it be covered then I bet it would have actually passed.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

But on what timetable? They'd be rebuilding now instead of this expensive rehabilitation to the existing bridge.

Sure, but by voting "no" to the referendum then they (i.e., the "taxpayers") don't have to pay for it.

NOT!

This is a perfect example of why the referendum was such a dumb idea.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

But on what timetable? They'd be rebuilding now instead of this expensive rehabilitation to the existing bridge.

most of the rehab needs to be done regardless of when the new bridge is finished. We are look at 7 to 10 years before the bridge will be finished. The rehab work deals with safety and structural issues basically a big bandage to the until the bridge is finished

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

most of the rehab needs to be done regardless of when the new bridge is finished. We are look at 7 to 10 years before the bridge will be finished. The rehab work deals with safety and structural issues basically a big bandage to the until the bridge is finished

If the referendum had passed, the new bridge would have been open by 2020, IMO.

[Marshal]

Mayor Cote has a planning degree from SFU; he is not a transportation expert, and the manner in which he discusses the issues facing New West does not exhibit the depth one would expect from an expert of anything.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

most of the rehab needs to be done regardless of when the new bridge is finished. We are look at 7 to 10 years before the bridge will be finished. The rehab work deals with safety and structural issues basically a big bandage to the until the bridge is finished

I'm a member of New Westminster's ACTBiPed committee and TransLink gave us a presentation about the upcoming remediation process last night. They're pretty much replacing the bridge deck. The asphalt is coming out, the concrete and rebar is coming out, and it's all being replaced. They showed pictures of current rebar that's rusted completely through. Honestly, if I didn't have to I'd never drive across it (the only reason I do is to get to Home Depot and I think I'll just go to the Coquitlam one from now on).

It is essentially a big bandage until the new bridge is in place. They were saying 2022/2023 for that, so roughly seven years.

Oh, and the bridge will remain open to bicycle and foot traffic the entire time. They're not doing any work on the sidewalk. They are going to put up a fence along the sidewalk for safety (although I don't know if this will only be when they're doing construction on the lane abutting the sidewalk or if it will be for the duration of the remediation project).

There's going to be advertising about this coming out soon, and they're strongly encouraging all traffic to avoid the Pattullo. They're still projecting traffic on the New West side to be a complete gong show, and that if you do decide to drive across the bridge, to add 30-40 minutes to your expected travel time.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I'm a member of New Westminster's ACTBiPed committee and TransLink gave us a presentation about the upcoming remediation process last night. They're pretty much replacing the bridge deck. The asphalt is coming out, the concrete and rebar is coming out, and it's all being replaced. They showed pictures of current rebar that's rusted completely through. Honestly, if I didn't have to I'd never drive across it (the only reason I do is to get to Home Depot and I think I'll just go to the Coquitlam one from now on).

It is essentially a big bandage until the new bridge is in place. They were saying 2022/2023 for that, so roughly seven years.

Oh, and the bridge will remain open to bicycle and foot traffic the entire time. They're not doing any work on the sidewalk. They are going to put up a fence along the sidewalk for safety (although I don't know if this will only be when they're doing construction on the lane abutting the sidewalk or if it will be for the duration of the remediation project).

There's going to be advertising about this coming out soon, and they're strongly encouraging all traffic to avoid the Pattullo. They're still projecting traffic on the New West side to be a complete gong show, and that if you do decide to drive across the bridge, to add 30-40 minutes to your expected travel time.

Thanks for the post. So many people live here with blinders and.don't understand the issues related to bridges. And infrastructure in general.

[paulsparrow]

What I can't understand is why Translink has changed their position and are now going to allow trucks to cross during the construction time. As one who travels through New West I can tell you right now this will in effect shut down New West all together.

Any time there is an accident around rush hours traffic is jammed on Royal, 6th, 8th, and 10th. Once you allow one truck to slowly go through construction pylons at 5 kph I can guarantee complete shut down of every road within 5 km's.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I'm a member of New Westminster's ACTBiPed committee and TransLink gave us a presentation about the upcoming remediation process last night. They're pretty much replacing the bridge deck. The asphalt is coming out, the concrete and rebar is coming out, and it's all being replaced. They showed pictures of current rebar that's rusted completely through. Honestly, if I didn't have to I'd never drive across it (the only reason I do is to get to Home Depot and I think I'll just go to the Coquitlam one from now on).

It is essentially a big bandage until the new bridge is in place. They were saying 2022/2023 for that, so roughly seven years......

What will the new bridge be like? How many lanes? Will they retain the current frame, or will it be totally rebuilt? That bridge used to give me the jitters when I drove over it...

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by paulsparrow

What I can't understand is why Translink has changed their position and are now going to allow trucks to cross during the construction time. As one who travels through New West I can tell you right now this will in effect shut down New West all together.

Any time there is an accident around rush hours traffic is jammed on Royal, 6th, 8th, and 10th. Once you allow one truck to slowly go through construction pylons at 5 kph I can guarantee complete shut down of every road within 5 km's.

Easy, the trucking industry has Translink (and the provincial government) by the balls. They are deemed integral players in the economy. It's why you see them immune from any laws in some cities (they can turn on reds and go on non-designated routes).

Surrey is anticipating major backups on KGB and Scott Rd; we know that many will continue to use this bridge despite the warnings.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

What will the new bridge be like? How many lanes? Will they retain the current frame, or will it be totally rebuilt? That bridge used to give me the jitters when I drove over it...

Everything I hear calls for a 4-6 lane bridge. It entirely depends on New West though; Surrey wants 6 lanes while New Westminster (apparently) wants to replace the structure with a 4 lane crossing.

[WarrenC12]

I can't understand the financial argument for commercial traffic like this using the Patullo. Is all of the extra time and fuel cost worth it for payloads worth tens of thousands of dollars or more?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Everything I hear calls for a 4-6 lane bridge. It entirely depends on New West though; Surrey wants 6 lanes while New Westminster (apparently) wants to replace the structure with a 4 lane crossing.

4 lanes seems short-sighted.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I can't understand the financial argument for commercial traffic like this using the Patullo. Is all of the extra time and fuel cost worth it for payloads worth tens of thousands of dollars or more?

Apparently so.

One guy I talked to said he would rather send his guys over the Patullo even if it adds 30min-1 hour to the trip because he saves $1500 a month by doing so. The only way to get rid of this mindset is to just toll all the crossings asap.

Ideally, you would see TL impose new restrictions banning trucks between rush hour.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

4 lanes seems short-sighted.

I don't like it, but one planner made a good point about the roads inability to handle an increase in traffic. Imagine adding more cars to McBride, Canada Way and 10th?

[WarrenC12]

Toll the bridge and ban trucks, 4 lanes will be plenty. I think 6 is reasonable, but if New West can't/won't handle the traffic, it's extra money just to move the bottleneck.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I don't like it, but one planner made a good point about the roads inability to handle an increase in traffic. Imagine adding more cars to McBride, Canada Way and 10th?

I don't think that planner has his thinking hat on, or maybe he failed math and thus went into social sciences.

In the morning, only 2 lanes of traffic come off the bridge. A lot of that traffic exits onto Royal or Columbia, so those roads you mentioned have much less than the 2 lanes capacity coming off the bridge. They can handle more cars (10th is already 2 lanes westbound). Besides, the first light at 6th could be used to control volumes further on while still providing everyone else access to the exit to Royal and Columbia, and freeing up traffic on the Surrey side so buses can access Scott Road station.

In the PM rush, all those roads funnel down to 1 lane on McBride, and then there is 1 lane off Royal (which is absorbing traffic from Columbia because access from Columbia is closed). Gridlock in New Westminster is an afternoon problem caused by people waiting for their turn to get on the bridge.

The biggest problem with only 2 lanes leaving Surrey is it causes gridlock around the Scott Road station, a key transfer point for buses from North Delta and West Surrey. The 319 (one of the busiest routes SoF) can get stuck in traffic for over 30 minutes. At least if everyone got on the bridge, and a traffic light at 6th made everyone wait for access to New West city streets, the bridge would be the gridlock and freeup the streets around the station for everyone else.

The bridge could be 7 lanes, like the Pitt River bridge. The roads in New West can easily handle 3 lanes entering town (especially if they improve the turn at Columbia to Brunette to 2 lanes).

But they really could use 4 lanes leaving New West. And the Surrey side can handle it: King George is 2 lanes (could easily be 3), Scott Road is 3 lanes, and direct access can be made from the new Bridge to the SFPR.