The Manitoba Provincial Politics Discussion

[esquire]

^ In my experience, griping about media liberal bias is generally an expression of anger over media outlets that don't act like conservative cheerleaders the same way that Fox News or AM talk radio outlets do. e.g., "if you aren't actively vilifying socialism, you're in bed with them!", that kind of thing.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Goodness, we can drum up billions of cases of opinion is subtly misrepresented as "facts" or news".

Bernie Sanders got a hell of a lot of endorsing from all media despite not having an actual clue how to lead a functioning country under his ideas (note: didn't say Trump knows either). Clearly he got duped by the powers that be among the democrats, who saw Hillary as their demon, errr, champion. When the media started to accurately realize that he was out of his depth, they very corruptly joined the campaign to get Hillary picked. That's an internal problem with the dems and the media.

EVERYONE EVERYWHERE has questioned the bailout. Just because some outlets talk about "all sides" of the issues does not mean they aren't leaning left. As a right leaning person, I've long seen a liberal angle fairly depicted, with a contrarian conservative opinion presented poorly, deliberately.

We're also not talking about "truly" liberal media, but rather a manipulative liberal media, that has to actually pretend to be somewhat centrist. Problem is that conservatives see the pretending clearly when conservative viewpoints are butchered in their presentation.

Regardless, this forum and maybe my younger friends facebook are literally the only places I've actually seen people assume political neutrality in the media. Every other forum, arena, professional spectrum and even social, it's a known thing.

The only common denominator I find with people who complain about media "bias" are those who have a very conservative viewpoint.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by drew

The only common denominator I find with people who complain about media "bias" are those who have a very conservative viewpoint.

Here I thought I was just right of center but I believe that many news outlets whether main stream or just online tend to be very left leaning.

Though I guess if the outlets were left leaning, a person on that spectrum would think they were watching something very informative and unbiased. Same would go for conservatives who think FOX News is an unbiased. Because the outlet feeds your point of view we think it is open and unbiased.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Goodness, we can drum up billions of cases of opinion is subtly misrepresented as "facts" or news".

Bernie Sanders got a hell of a lot of endorsing from all media despite not having an actual clue how to lead a functioning country under his ideas (note: didn't say Trump knows either). Clearly he got duped by the powers that be among the democrats, who saw Hillary as their demon, errr, champion. When the media started to accurately realize that he was out of his depth, they very corruptly joined the campaign to get Hillary picked. That's an internal problem with the dems and the media.

EVERYONE EVERYWHERE has questioned the bailout. Just because some outlets talk about "all sides" of the issues does not mean they aren't leaning left. As a right leaning person, I've long seen a liberal angle fairly depicted, with a contrarian conservative opinion presented poorly, deliberately.

We're also not talking about "truly" liberal media, but rather a manipulative liberal media, that has to actually pretend to be somewhat centrist. Problem is that conservatives see the pretending clearly when conservative viewpoints are butchered in their presentation.

Regardless, this forum and maybe my younger friends facebook are literally the only places I've actually seen people assume political neutrality in the media. Every other forum, arena, professional spectrum and even social, it's a known thing.

Nice post, I've watched the CBC go from middle of the road to almost the far left in their slant to most things political, the CBC had an outright hatred for Harper with the threat of funding cuts. The CBC needs to get back to at least a centrist position.

Here in Manitoba in the day of the Me Too movement our local media (Free Press, CBC and others) virtually ignored Wab's transgressions mainly because he represented the left, anyone think that would have happened if Wab was running or became leader of the Manitoba Conservatives?

[Tacheguy]

imo the mainstream American media is divided between the right and the hard right. unless you read such material as Harpers or the Guardian, which few people do, there is very little mainstream exposure to the types of viewpoints that are common in progressive countries. I know others will disagree but I believe that is a huge problem in the US and is responsible in large part for the worsening social problems you see down there.

[drew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Nice post, I've watched the CBC go from middle of the road to almost the far left in their slant to most things political, the CBC had an outright hatred for Harper with the threat of funding cuts. The CBC needs to get back to at least a centrist position.

Here in Manitoba in the day of the Me Too movement our local media (Free Press, CBC and others) virtually ignored Wab's transgressions mainly because he represented the left, anyone think that would have happened if Wab was running or became leader of the Manitoba Conservatives?

Are you remembering correctly? The FP basically lead the angry mob with pitch forks against Kinew to a level that was almost comical - if it wasn't being presented daily on the front page of our major newspaper.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by drew

Are you remembering correctly? The FP basically lead the angry mob with pitch forks against Kinew to a level that was almost comical - if it wasn't being presented daily on the front page of our major newspaper.

That was because it was two south paws running for leadership of the NDP. It would have been different if it was a real election.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Same would go for conservatives who think FOX News is an unbiased. Because the outlet feeds your point of view we think it is open and unbiased.

This is a false equivalence on par with Trump's "Some Very Fine People on Both Sides" false equivalence of white supremacists with pro-civil rights protestors.

Consider the mountain of very real and well documented connections between Trump and Russia, and Trump's team and Russia.

Back in June someone at CNN "faked" yet another connection. CNN retracted it within a day, and accepted the resignations of three journalists.

Meanwhile Fox News was broadcasting a wingnut conspiracy claim about the murder of Seth Rich*. They kept repeating it for a week after it was shown to be fake. No resignations or firings. Never an apology. A false accusation that would result in retractions in firings at CNN is standard practice and an hourly occurrence at Fox.

Which is where "facts have a left-wing bias" comes in. CNN is "leftist" ONLY if you believe that "facts have a left-wing bias." The network is merely insufficiently biased to the right for the Fox / Breitbart crowd.

* Complete with a fake expert with inside information. Who turned out to be nothing of the sort. Fox has a steady stream of intelligence, military and police expert insiders to back their claims.... who inevitably turn out to have entirely faked backgrounds.

[drew]

Originally Posted by dmacc

That was because it was two south paws running for leadership of the NDP. It would have been different if it was a real election.

Sure. However the comment I was referring to was that the FP basically ignored the whole Kinew debacle, which was clearly not accurate.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

imo the mainstream American media is divided between the right and the hard right. unless you read such material as Harpers or the Guardian, which few people do, there is very little mainstream exposure to the types of viewpoints that are common in progressive countries. I know others will disagree but I believe that is a huge problem in the US and is responsible in large part for the worsening social problems you see down there.

Stuff like this:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...201-story.html

[Ando]

Originally Posted by drew

Are you remembering correctly? The FP basically lead the angry mob with pitch forks against Kinew to a level that was almost comical - if it wasn't being presented daily on the front page of our major newspaper.

Yes, he tends to selectively not remember things on a regular basis. The Free Press did a full court press on Kinew for several weeks.

[Ando]

Skylar's favourite paper, the Winnipeg Sun, is the most blatantly political. Remember Sun TV, it was so ridiculously ideological that no one ended up watching, except extreme right-wingers, and it ended up going off the air.

[dmacc]

I used to watch a lot of BBC World News, I thought they were really good at being unbiased. I would like something like that in Canada. They even had a good amount of positive stories, not just the negative we're used to.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Holy crap guys, overreact much?


that would be a very biased, pro-liberal statement but yeah, we can all have our views

I didn't say you were left or liberal. Trump, while conservative, is very childish. However, while childish, he's done amazing things for the economy with his tax strategies. As a conservative, THAT part appeals to me. Factoring in how he behaves, I tend to pick and choose what I do and don't like about the guy, nor did I say I was pro-Trump.

However, when some liberals complain about him, I have little sympathy.


I find it odd that you'd say this, because all I did was try to soften how I came across and I did not go at anyone.

But then you just called me an ass.

So who's the ass?



Just because they talk about some wars does not mean they are suddenly not liberal minded or driven.

If we can say that "anyone with eyes and ears" can see trump's immaturity, we can definitely see the same in a majority of media outlets, including NYT and CNN. SSP seems to be the only arena where I've encountered denial of this.

Well in reading through your omnibus responses, the Borg Cube of Skyscraper, I notice you generally promote views rather on the right side of the spectrum, you sometimes have a rather condescending attitude to those who put forward views not in sync with yours, and you often try to soften your image up by saying stuff like, not to be ass, but ...
That's what I was trying to put across.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Stuff like this:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...201-story.html

A better social safety net would probably do a lot to keep homeless people from washing up in a place like Los Angeles...

[drew]

What are peoples thoughts about multi-tiered minimum wage tied to age groups?

Have a read of this opinion piece from the Sun.

I had some experience observing this kind of thing in Australia - where McDs and the like were basically staffed entirely by kids under 18 (the age where the minimum wage increased).

I think it is definitely worth exploring. IMO The increase in minimum wage is meant to help people supporting themselves more so than youth getting their first part time job.

[drew]

I am also a big fan of this idea.

"Less red tape, more red ale: Change could make it easier for microbreweries to sell wares downtown"

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ In my experience, griping about media liberal bias is generally an expression of anger over media outlets that don't act like conservative cheerleaders the same way that Fox News or AM talk radio outlets do. e.g., "if you aren't actively vilifying socialism, you're in bed with them!", that kind of thing.

I'm not sure I can follow that.

In Canada Fox is villified because we love nothing more than to appear nicer than the US, and FOX has a lot of common enemies in the US. Many of the earned enemies. Nonetheless, they bring up some perspectives that are easily opposed by nice Canada since they aren't our problems to begin with.

I do however have a problem with some of their views and definitely their style. It's also unfair to assume that Canadian conservatives are like Fox viewership or like Fox programming, but that's a natural assumption. Some however just like it more than the other stuff, which isn't centrist, but likes to say it is. Conservatives have felt politically cornered for a while and the instinct then is to bark, while all others shout "look how loud they're barking". I don't think it's smart to bark, but I'm not surprised.

Nonetheless, Fox isn't my fight nor my network.

Originally Posted by drew

The only common denominator I find with people who complain about media "bias" are those who have a very conservative viewpoint.

Well... um... that's how you know it's obvious.

If the left say it's fair, and conservatives are saying that they're views are either poorly represented or ignored, OF COURSE the left is going to say it's fair! The left has never admitted to having a media advantage for obvious reasons; the gig would be up. How many times do you see Blake Wheeler saying "yeah, the ref practically put the puck in their net for us"? You'd just keep quite and move on. It's like a texan saying "those Winnipeggers complain about the cold a lot". Perhaps it's annoying, but the Winnipegger knows the texan doesn't know what it feels like.

Not sure if that comparison is foolproof lol.

It is kind of weird to hear liberals, or atleast non-conservatives to say "no, your views are well represented, and this is what they are, not what you think they are."

But conservative rage does need to be tempered. If it isn't, then it it helps Fox justify their ways and that doesn't help conservatives

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

imo the mainstream American media is divided between the right and the hard right. unless you read such material as Harpers or the Guardian, which few people do, there is very little mainstream exposure to the types of viewpoints that are common in progressive countries. I know others will disagree but I believe that is a huge problem in the US and is responsible in large part for the worsening social problems you see down there.

For what it's worth, republican views aren't always conservative in a true sense, but man, the mainstream media down there is definitely neither republican nor conservative. I have not in my life heard anyone make a claim such as above.

Originally Posted by drew

Are you remembering correctly? The FP basically lead the angry mob with pitch forks against Kinew to a level that was almost comical - if it wasn't being presented daily on the front page of our major newspaper.

That's because he was an NDP leader and he's aboriginal. I have nothing against aboriginals but I do have issues with the NDP, and the FP is apologists for both when they are in trouble. Pallister got in trouble for making a comment about someone's high heels, perhaps slightly inappropriate but certainly stupidly clumsy, and had he done what Kinew had done... well you know.

Patrick Brown's conservative career is over, and while I don't know if he's guilty or not, neither does anyone else... that's the problem... no due dilligence. Any conservative will get hung, and maybe a left politician also, depending on circumstances.

Originally Posted by Ando

Skylar's favourite paper, the Winnipeg Sun, is the most blatantly political. Remember Sun TV, it was so ridiculously ideological that no one ended up watching, except extreme right-wingers, and it ended up going off the air.

They picked a wrong approach by going for the angry angle like FOX. But A lot of their points were by no means far-right, but just normal-right. Yet people take the tone and run with it, and perpetuate the "extremity" of it.

Originally Posted by Ando

Well in reading through your omnibus responses, the Borg Cube of Skyscraper, I notice you generally promote views rather on the right side of the spectrum, you sometimes have a rather condescending attitude to those who put forward views not in sync with yours, and you often try to soften your image up by saying stuff like, not to be ass, but ...
That's what I was trying to put across.

I'm well spoken JK...

I know I come across this way sometimes, generally unintentional. I also sometimes say things that I feel need to be said, knowing they could be unwelcome, or could have the thought behind them clouded by the potential emotional reaction they draw up... since I genuinely don't want to be an ass to people, I may lead with that.

And, nerd, I had to google the Borg Cube I lol'd!

I know my mostly-right-wing views creep up in some topics but I try to be open about it. However, a lot of my positions may appear right wing but are economically driven. and striking a balance with social and financial matter imposed by a development, I'm not asking myself "what do I want" but rather "but what will work"? Or what will work best.

The other thing I suck at is letting things go when I see questions or views perpetuated that I've already answered. To a strong degree, dealing with markets and financial matters is my forte. I probably push that too hard sometimes, but we're in a real estate forum. Markets and financial matters are chief here, barring unique circumstances.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by drew

What are peoples thoughts about multi-tiered minimum wage tied to age groups?

Have a read of this opinion piece from the Sun.

I had some experience observing this kind of thing in Australia - where McDs and the like were basically staffed entirely by kids under 18 (the age where the minimum wage increased).

I think it is definitely worth exploring. IMO The increase in minimum wage is meant to help people supporting themselves more so than youth getting their first part time job.

It's an interesting idea but I would be concerned that the people who are in the higher min. wage category might get priced out of the market. If I plan to hire unskilled workers, I would want to get the best value for money. Often I would hire the cheaper person to save money. I would be worried it would result in businesses discriminating against the higher wagers.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Well... um... that's how you know it's obvious.

Right. So because someone doesn't agree with what is being said infers that there must be some degree of bias because... why exactly?

Now onto this:

That's because he was an NDP leader and he's aboriginal. I have nothing against aboriginals but I do have issues with the NDP, and the FP is apologists for both when they are in trouble. Pallister got in trouble for making a comment about someone's high heels, perhaps slightly inappropriate but certainly stupidly clumsy, and had he done what Kinew had done... well you know.

Patrick Brown's conservative career is over, and while I don't know if he's guilty or not, neither does anyone else... that's the problem... no due dilligence. Any conservative will get hung, and maybe a left politician also, depending on circumstances.

Let me show you the statement I was referring to from rrskylar:

Here in Manitoba in the day of the Me Too movement our local media (Free Press, CBC and others) virtually ignored Wab's transgressions mainly because he represented the left, anyone think that would have happened if Wab was running or became leader of the Manitoba Conservatives?

This is absolutely false with respect to the FP. FAKE NEWS if you'd rather. The Free Press had Wab Kinew essentially tried and convicted everyday for a decent one or two week period. I have no idea why anyone is trying to argue this. It happened. I read it. We even discussed at length on this very forum. Anything regarding you reaching about the ifs buts candies nuts for Pallister or Patrick Brown is besides the point I was making.