Toyoko Inn | 357' | 32 floors | Dead

[ORNative]

Wall Street Journal Article (2010) on Toyoko Inn, New York: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...93230856250018

Identifies that room sizes are approximately 200 sq feet; That hotel chain builds up to accommodate sufficient number of rooms for profitability; That NYC hotel will have 635 rooms at 35 stories tall (300-400 in Portland translates to 17-23 stories?)

[innovativethinking]

Originally Posted by ORNative

Wall Street Journal Article (2010) on Toyoko Inn, New York: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...93230856250018

Identifies that room sizes are approximately 200 sq feet; That hotel chain builds up to accommodate sufficient number of rooms for profitability; That NYC hotel will have 635 rooms at 35 stories tall (300-400 in Portland translates to 17-23 stories?)

Yup but I'll say around 17-20 stories more likely..

[petcarpdx]

Originally Posted by ORNative

Wall Street Journal Article (2010) on Toyoko Inn, New York: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...93230856250018

Identifies that room sizes are approximately 200 sq feet; That hotel chain builds up to accommodate sufficient number of rooms for profitability; That NYC hotel will have 635 rooms at 35 stories tall (300-400 in Portland translates to 17-23 stories?)

I believe the SW 3rd & Oak lot is quite a bit smaller than the NYC property they purchased. If the Portland location ends up with similarly-sized rooms and a smaller floorplate, the tower might be taller than 20ish stories. There's probably a good chunk of wishful thinking in that speculation though.

[innovativethinking]

Originally Posted by petcarpdx

I believe the SW 3rd & Oak lot is quite a bit smaller than the NYC property they purchased. If the Portland location ends up with similarly-sized rooms and a smaller floorplate, the tower might be taller than 20ish stories. There's probably a good chunk of wishful thinking in that speculation though.

Yea that makes sense. What's the height limit for the site? I can see them doing a skinny Vancouver Bc style point tower there

[ORNative]

According to the proposed height limits of the 2035 plan it looks like that corner of the block has a 460' height limit. At worst it is 250' if I am reading it wrong.

[PacificNW]

Just a thought.. I don't know how popular this hotel chain is with Japanese travelers but maybe this project is targeted for tourists visiting Portland from Japan and the Far East...

[maccoinnich]

Originally Posted by ORNative

According to the proposed height limits of the 2035 plan it looks like that corner of the block has a 460' height limit. At worst it is 250' if I am reading it wrong.

I think you're right. Current zoning is also 460'. Even with that room count I doubt though that they'll come close to maxing it out.

[innovativethinking]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

I think you're right. Current zoning is also 460'. Even with that room count I doubt though that they'll come close to maxing it out.

Of course they won't. This is Portland we're talking about but my hope is around 325'

[babs]

Originally Posted by PacificNW

Just a thought.. I don't know how popular this hotel chain is with Japanese travelers but maybe this project is targeted for tourists visiting Portland from Japan and the Far East...

I think you are right. These guys have zero brand recognition with American travelers. And their USA website is very weak. For them to be successful, they might want to think about partnering with another chain to reciprocate their loyalty program.

[Derek]

Portland is huge in Japan......



*buh dum psh*

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by ORNative

Wall Street Journal Article (2010) on Toyoko Inn, New York: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...93230856250018

Identifies that room sizes are approximately 200 sq feet; That hotel chain builds up to accommodate sufficient number of rooms for profitability; That NYC hotel will have 635 rooms at 35 stories tall (300-400 in Portland translates to 17-23 stories?)

But what is the lot size of the NYC hotel? I am guessing we will see this well into the 20-32 story range.

[2oh1]

It's a shame this couldn't be combined with an office project in order to double the height and fill in the skyline a bit, but even if it's only 20-ish stories, at this location, it sure would be nice.

[58rhodes]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

It's a shame this couldn't be combined with an office project in order to double the height and fill in the skyline a bit, but even if it's only 20-ish stories, at this location, it sure would be nice.

the plot is to fill in most of downtown by 2025-then when the avail open land is diminishing the Goodman's will raise the prices of their parking lots and become billionaires

[58rhodes]

Originally Posted by innovativethinking

Of course they won't. This is Portland we're talking about but my hope is around 325'

I think you mean 225

[maccoinnich]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

It's a shame this couldn't be combined with an office project in order to double the height and fill in the skyline a bit, but even if it's only 20-ish stories, at this location, it sure would be nice.

The offices and hotel rooms would need separate elevators (as the Broadway Tower is doing). The circulation would probably eat up so much of the floor plate that it would be uneconomical.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

The offices and hotel rooms would need separate elevators (as the Broadway Tower is doing). The circulation would probably eat up do much of the floor plate that it would be uneconomical.

An office building in the quarter lot across the street would be a nice addition and really help improve that part of downtown. Though it would be good to see construction at the old failed Oak St Tower site.

[petcarpdx]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

But what is the lot size of the NYC hotel?

Here's a highlighted map. It's an oblong collection of lots ~60% larger than the SW 3rd and Oak lot.

In doing a little more digging I ran across this thread. Of particular interest is post #29, which suggests the NYC hotel is cancelled (at least at this location). That doesn't really affect a potential Portland Toyoko Inn, but it's tangentially related enough to mention. If true, it does mean that our height speculation is based on a cancelled building and might not have much value.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by petcarpdx

Here's a highlighted map. It's an oblong collection of lots ~60% larger than the SW 3rd and Oak lot.

In doing a little more digging I ran across this thread. Of particular interest is post #29, which suggests the NYC hotel is cancelled (at least at this location). That doesn't really affect a potential Portland Toyoko Inn, but it's tangentially related enough to mention. If true, it does mean that our height speculation is based on a cancelled building and might not have much value.

Doing the math on this one, I am gonna have to now guess we are looking at a possible 12-22 story building.

[petcarpdx]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

Doing the math on this one, I am gonna have to now guess we are looking at a possible 12-22 story building.

I came up with a totally different number, so I'm curious about your math!

I realized that my estimate for the NYC lot size was incorrect. It's actually very close to 18,000 sq ft, so 80% larger. Due to its odd shape though, I wouldn't expect the building to max out the lot. Their plans were to build a 385 ft tower for 600-700 rooms (depending on the source). Even if their floorplate was only as big as the lot in Portland, I would expect to see a minimum of about 17 stories for a 300 room hotel built similar to what they had planned in NYC. If their NYC plans were for a larger floorplate (say 15,000 sq ft) or the Portland plans end up being closer to 400 rooms, my math says we could see something easily in the 20-30+ story range.

To be clear, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to understand how our guesses are so different. Yours seems far more realistic than mine, but I haven't been able to recreate your math.

[maccoinnich]

Well, I listened to the PDC hearing held yesterday. They mentioned that the site has currently entitlements on it for a 17 story building. I guess they could transfer FAR if they need to.