CCTV expansion?

[SteelTown]

More cameras coming to city streets
Ken Mann
9/15/2008

Hamilton's Police Services Board is being asked to approve an expanded use of closed circuit surveillance cameras.

The recommendation, which goes before the board this afternoon, calls for them to be placed on James Street North, Concession Street, Ottawa Street and Hess Street.

Police Services Board Chair Bernie Morelli says they could be in place by late winter or early spring.

Morelli adds that it's about using technology to find better and more efficient ways to ensure safe communities.

Closed circuit surveillance was first launched downtown in the summer of 2004.

[FairHamilton]

Infringing on civil liberties creates a steep, slippery slope.

I find it interesting this is in the news today, since this mornings Spec had an article outlining the decline in crime in Hamilton without CCTV being in these areas.

[flar]

As far as I know, there is no evidence that these even work.

My own observations tell me the drug trade continues to flourish in Gore Park and along King St. downtown despite the cameras.

[DC83]

I don't have a problem with them in particular, but is there any evidence that the cameras they have already set up are working?

[SteelTown]

I don't have a problem with this. As long the BIA or a group approves it first than go ahead.

This was Mayor Fred's election promise, add more cameras. Bratina also promised for cameras along James St North.

[FairHamilton]

I've seen no info they reduce crime (usually it moves around the corner), or improves arrest/conviction rates.

Last October in Toronto there was a 5 handgun, 40 shot shootout on Adelaide Street, less than 1/2 block from the Toronto Police camera at Peter and Adelaide. Number of arrests so far, zero.

I have no problem with the cameras. What I have a problem with what they could mean for future civil liberties. We'll all get used to this minor encroachment on our civil liberites, and then they'll introduce something a little more, and so on, and so on.

Just like when the price of gas goes up and everyone gets used to paying $.75/L, and then gets used to paying $1.00/L and then gets used to paying $1.25/L, and then $1.35/L, and so on........

[adam]

^^ completely agree

[SteelTown]

Four new areas of Hamilton to get surveillance cameras

September 15, 2008
By Jackson Hayes

Hamilton police plan to put closed circuit television cameras in four new areas of the city.

The program, which already has five cameras in the downtown core, will now include cameras on James Street North, Ottawa Street, Concession Street and in Hess Village, all capable of beaming live video to nearby police divisions.

Police Chief Brian Mullan today called the cameras “extremely advantageous” and said they will offer police another set of eyes to serve the community.
“We hope it will bring good things to the areas they’re being installed in,” he told the board of police commissioners.

According to Deputy Chief Ken Leendertse, who heads the project, 10 to 12 new cameras will monitor the areas 24 hours a day and keep recorded material for 72 hours.

The $100,000 tab for equipment and monitoring systems has already been approved by the board.

Board member Mark Nimigan said though he had no objection to the cameras, he did wonder how far expansion would go before “Big Brother is watching all over the city.”

Mullan said the plan will happen in small steps and only build if it is successful. He insisted cameras are “just one small piece of a total crime-fighting recipe.”

Dean Collett, who owns Sizzle Steakhouse, Koi Restaurant, Diavolo and the Funky Munky, all in Hess Village, welcomes the new cameras as long as they are used in the right spirit.

“I’m for it. It’s another layer of security on top of all the other security we have down there,” he said.

Hess Village is slated for three cameras and Collett, who has had 15 break-ins in the last two years, said he will support them as long as they’re “used to curb major crime and as an investigators’ tool.”

The cameras were proposed in 1998 and this expansion builds on the city’s pilot project from June 2004.

Unlike the five current cameras, which are hardwired to the viewing facilities, the new “eyes in the sky” will use Internet Protocol (IP) technology, which sends the images to receivers via the Internet using a secure network.

Leendertse said the new camera locations were chosen by police with the help of the community.

“Deterrence is the first thing,” he said.

“The second thing is that we’re actually apprehending offenders on camera … it’s a good crime-fighting tool.”

[the dude]

i can only assume that the reporter didn't press leendertse to qualify his statement that cameras are 'a good crime-fighting tool.' i'd like some proof that we're actually safer by being under constant observation before i give up my civil liberties.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by the dude

i can only assume that the reporter didn't press leendertse to qualify his statement that cameras are 'a good crime-fighting tool.' i'd like some proof that we're actually safer by being under constant observation before i give up my civil liberties.

You're in a public place. You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in such a place.

There seems to be a new camera hanging from the light standard at James and Cannon, unless that's been there forever and I haven't seen it.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Millstone

You're in a public place. You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in such a place.

But, I also have the expectation that my actions will not be constantly monitored and recorded by authorities.

If they want to monitor an area hire a body and put them there to patrol.

[SteelTown]

If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with the cameras. After 70 hrs the tapes are destroyed.

We can put up 20 cameras and patrol 20 spots with a staff of perhaps two. That's a lot cheaper than paying 20 cops with a salary of over $80,000 a year plus 15% for benefits, $92,000.

[flar]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

If you have nothing to hide

..you have everything to fear.

[the dude]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with the cameras.

ugh, i'm so tired of that constant refrain. and by the way, these cameras aren't being set-up in your neighbourhood, are they? didn't think so. furthermore, who gives a damn about the police budget? i'm more than happy to pay them to do their job...cameras and segways aside.

[SteelTown]

I don't live in a BIA, do you?

[the dude]

i live downtown...close enough. the bottom line is that the best deterent to crime is having cops walk the beat. forget cameras, criminal activity decreases when cops are present! i don't know why they're so reluctant and i won't bother speculating.

hell, i'm a high school teacher...i walk the friggin' beat! where do you think all the criminals are between the hours of eight and three o'clock? anyway, we don't do it 'cause we like it, we do it to keep our students safe. nothing else can accomplish that goal. we know it and the coppers know it too.

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by Millstone

There seems to be a new camera hanging from the light standard at James and Cannon, unless that's been there forever and I haven't seen it.

James Street North Is First To Get New Police Cameras
Ken Mann
9/15/2008


Hamilton Police are expanding the use of closed circuit surveillance cameras.

They've been in use since the summer of 2004 within the city's downtown core.

The police services board now giving the O-K for them to be expanded into another four strategically chosen areas, Hess Village, Concession Street, Ottawa Street and Jamesville.

Police have about 100 thousand dollars in the budget to pay for the new cameras.

They expect to be able to install 10-to-12 of them in total. The first of them should appear within the next few weeks on James Street North

I think they knew they had the votes at the meeting and had already started the installation!

[SteelTown]

We are still waiting for Harper to deliever one of his election promise to fund more cops. An election has been called again so that's a broken promise. He'll probably recycle that promise.

The city can't afford to hire more cops, police service takes up the biggest chunk of Hamilton's budget, more cops will take a bigger chunk of the pie.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with the cameras. After 70 hrs the tapes are destroyed.

Really, it's the 'creep' that worries me. Once this becomes the norm, someone will come up with one more way to keep us 'safe' and ratchet up the invasion of our privacy one more notch.

If 'good things' happen in the areas will they take the cameras down, or will they shift their statements to the effect that their continued presence are necessary to keep the 'good things'? People they are good and you really, really need them........

If crime moves around the corner will they remove them because all it's done is shift crime, not stop/prevent it. Or, will they continue to expand until they are on every street corner?

Man, did you see gas this morning at $1.29/L isn't it a real deal, and if it hits $1.20/L it will be like they are giving it away. Oh yeah, it was less than $1.00/L a year ago, but I quickly got used to paying $1.36/L.........

[SteelTown]

I think the one at James and Cannon is a wifi thingy.