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View Poll Results: What should be prioritized on Elgin? (You can choose more than one option)
Driving 8 10.00%
Transit 33 41.25%
Cycling 25 31.25%
Pedestrians 67 83.75%
Patios 40 50.00%
On-street Parking 5 6.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
TheGoods, you (and I for that matter) are on a demographic island when it comes to this web site. If you don't live in the central city, you're the devil. If you don't live in a condo, you're the devil. If you own one or more motorized vehicles, you're the devil. If you drive either/any of those motorized vehicles, you're the devil. If you don't walk, bike, or transit everywhere, you're the devil.
I guess I'm the Devil! I live in Wakefield for cheap green energy, subsidized daycare, a house that costs half what it would in the city, cheap insurance, a great upbringing for my kids, and one hell of a view!
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
I guess I'm the Devil! I live in Wakefield for cheap green energy, subsidized daycare, a house that costs half what it would in the city, cheap insurance, a great upbringing for my kids, and one hell of a view!
Aren't income taxes a lot higher up there though? (Genuinely curious).
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
This all made me chuckle after I got slammed for supporting my dentist who commented in a newspaper article about the lack of bike riders frequenting his office on South Bank Street in Alta Vista.

I have to agree that placing fancy bike lanes on retail streets is not the best choice. Place them one block over on a parallel street. We should be focusing on moving pedestrians and transit on our retail streets. For bike riders, a one block diversion should not be a big deal. Retail streets are confusing enough not to be focusing our bike traffic there as well.

On Elgin Street itself, there are already all kinds of parking restrictions there, like one hour parking limits. As we promote intensification and remove parking, we better be thinking of alternatives to get people there. The Confederation Line is not enough and is too far away. We need to stop just thinking about the young, fit and able. What about the rest of the population?
IIRC, the dentist in question was opposed to the installation of bike lanes on Bank Street because he felt people didn't tend to frequent his office by bike. Well guess what? There are lots of other users of Bank Street besides his patients. And it's unclear how bike lanes on Bank Street will negatively affect his office anyway.

I tend to agree that bike lanes on Elgin are probably not feasible due to limited ROW, and there are lots of parallel alternative cycling routes anyway.

For other streets like Bank Street south, there are no parallel alternative routes so there is no other place for the cycling lanes other than the retail street. And for Bank Street south in particular, there is plenty of room in the ROW for cycling lanes.

I have to smile with your comment asking about the "rest of the population." For years we have built our streets to accommodate cars at the detriment to everyone else; now that we're trying to accommodate long-neglected active transportation modes, it's a bit rich to be moaning about how drivers will suffer.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
IIRC, the dentist in question was opposed to the installation of bike lanes on Bank Street because he felt people didn't tend to frequent his office by bike. Well guess what? There are lots of other users of Bank Street besides his patients. And it's unclear how bike lanes on Bank Street will negatively affect his office anyway.

I tend to agree that bike lanes on Elgin are probably not feasible due to limited ROW, and there are lots of parallel alternative cycling routes anyway.

For other streets like Bank Street south, there are no parallel alternative routes so there is no other place for the cycling lanes other than the retail street. And for Bank Street south in particular, there is plenty of room in the ROW for cycling lanes.

I have to smile with your comment asking about the "rest of the population." For years we have built our streets to accommodate cars at the detriment to everyone else; now that we're trying to accommodate long-neglected active transportation modes, it's a bit rich to be moaning about how drivers will suffer.
You are reading more into what I said more than I had intended. I am in favour of improving our bike infrastructure but we need to make sure that the improvements do not significantly and negatively impact the majority using other modes of transport. That is why I suggested parallel streets. Of course, that does not always work and likely Bank Street South could accommodate bike lanes. But, don't expect a sudden shift of people going to the dentist to do so by bike. Similarly, people doing their grocery shopping etc.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mykl View Post
I'm glad bradnixon and acottawa brought some sense to this place while I was at work. For starters, I don't ride a bike anywhere ever. But I've lived on Elgin for years, and I see the people going to the restaurants. I brought up bikes because these are hipster restaurants and common sense dictates that hipsters like bikes. Or walking. Or transit.

TheGoods, I suggest your wife buy a nice pair of high heeled fashion boots to help with the struggles of living in Canada and still wanting to impress. Her desire to wear unseasonable shoes to 3 or 4 dinners each winter doesn't mean Elgin street needs more parking. Especially when, as bradnixon has noted, you're not actually trying to frequent Elgin anyway.

Also, they do clear the bike lanes for winter use now. So that's 12 months of use per year.
I’m confused, all I was trying to is reply to your comments: “Actually, I'm quite sure hip restaurants like Common and the ones run by Carmichael would prefer a bike lane running right to them”.

First, I’m not sure what is a hipster but let’s assume these hipsters take their bike, is that comment based on fact or just your personal opinion. I just assumed it was based on you taking your bike since you did not provide any supporting information; it seems that you have been to these places and are familiar with the clientele, more than I am since I do not go to Elgin due to my old age and drive a car. I’m a bit surprise that you are sticking by your comments about bikes when you do not even take your bike to Elgin, kind of contradicting yourself.

Now, seriously, how many people go to Beckta, Whale Bones (haven’t yet tried their Elgin location) or Common’s by bike? I might see maybe one or two in a year potentially going to El Camino or Datsun or maybe Oz when if it was still on Elgin. I actually might believe it a bit more that the clientele at Pure Kitchen would take their bikes.

You are telling me that I do not frequent these places, well, have you seen the clientele, I really cannot see any of the female patrons taking a bike (they are like my wife). Your knowledge and insight, is that based on a study you did or personal knowledge. Do your friend like to bike to Common, especially the female friend in their skirts. Maybe it is the amount of bikes locked on bike racks on Elgin, did you do a study and count all of these hipsters taking their bikes. I haven’t’ paid attention, next time I if ever go to Elgin, I will try to pay attention to the amount of bikes.
On a side note, I don’t think AcOttawa has the same view, he stated that how many Common patrons take their bike, I might be wrong, maybe AC also takes his bike to Commons.

Yes, I might not frequent Elgin as I did in the past, I still remember the good old days of Nescalero’s, Fire Station, Bull Dog, Big Daddy (bar area), Pump and Griffins but I still frequent Elgin street, I was at the Pump with the few boys of my old colleagues from work during the xmas holidays on wing night. I also work at 160 Elgin once a week and go out to lunch on Elgin.

I have no issues with bikes, every member of our family owns a bike and we ride them in the summer time as a family but I cannot see my wife and me, even if we lived close by, taking our bikes for a night out, either a date night or a night out with a group of friends. We would take our bikes for a more casual place but not to some of the places on Elgin, especially Beckta.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 4:41 PM
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For Elgin, I agree that bike lanes don't make sense. IMHO, the street parking should be removed and it should be reduced to 3 lanes (with the centre lane for left turning vehicles). This would allow for wider sidewalks and reduce the congestion of vehicles having to wait behind someone turning left.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
TheGoods, you (and I for that matter) are on a demographic island when it comes to this web site. If you don't live in the central city, you're the devil. If you don't live in a condo, you're the devil. If you own one or more motorized vehicles, you're the devil. If you drive either/any of those motorized vehicles, you're the devil. If you don't walk, bike, or transit everywhere, you're the devil.
I take exception to this. I wasn't making a value judgement like that at all.

Point is there are thousands of licensed seats and 120 street parking spaces, so I'm making a market argument about the best use of limited space on this particular street.

I walk, I bike, I take transit and I drive - throughout which I am a person like we all are. Let's all tone down the rhetoric - or else we may as well be at a heated and useless public consultation meeting screaming about the children.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 4:57 PM
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The commentary was with tongue firmly in cheek and I didn't name anyone specifically. Can I help you chill out somehow?
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 5:28 PM
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As for drinking, I have an agreement with my wife that one of us can drink and the other will watch their alcohol intake and be the designated driver.
In addition, I really cannot see all females that are wearing hells and dressed up and taking their bikes, maybe I am missing something or frequent different establishments.
I'm actually right in your demographic, with the exception that I don't live in the suburbs. I go to Elgin with my wife to eat out fairly regularly, and we generally bike there in the warmer months, heels or no heels. Perhaps I just picked the right wife!

Based on the challenge of finding a bike parking spot around Elgin, and the fact that lots of our friends also bike, my sense is that quite a lot of people in the closer parts of town do the same.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
The commentary was with tongue firmly in cheek and I didn't name anyone specifically. Can I help you chill out somehow?
What do you think of plans for Elgin - how do you think it should be rebuilt? What's the roadspace balance you'd like to see?
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 5:54 PM
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Open house to welcome public feedback on Elgin Street and Hawthorne Avenue

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 11, 2017 | Last Updated: January 11, 2017 9:28 AM EST


The City of Ottawa is holding a public open house on Wednesday concerning the future of Elgin Street and Hawthorne Avenue.

The purpose of the ongoing Elgin Street and Hawthorne Avenue Functional Design Study, which first invited the public into the fold last June, is to examine and address such issues as on-street parking, sidewalk widths, transit requirements, bicycle and turning lanes, streetscaping and public art on Elgin Street between Laurier Avenue and Queen Elizabeth Driveway, and Hawthorne Avenue from Main Street to the Pretoria Bridge.

The open house, which will include a brief Q&A period, starts at 5 p.m. in the Council Chambers and Jean Pigott Place at City Hall, 110 Laurier Ave. W., and is expected to run until 7:30 p.m.

The presentation commences at 5:30 p.m.

Due to limited space, members of the public who wish to attend are asked to register online at https://surveys.ottawa.ca/index.php/865253.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...wntown-streets
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
I'm actually right in your demographic, with the exception that I don't live in the suburbs. I go to Elgin with my wife to eat out fairly regularly, and we generally bike there in the warmer months, heels or no heels. Perhaps I just picked the right wife!

Based on the challenge of finding a bike parking spot around Elgin, and the fact that lots of our friends also bike, my sense is that quite a lot of people in the closer parts of town do the same.
I appreciate that this does exist and is a growing phenomenon, but at present it can't be but a small minority of patrons that bike to high-end restaurants in downtown Ottawa.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:32 PM
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I appreciate that this does exist and is a growing phenomenon, but at present it can't be but a small minority of patrons that bike to high-end restaurants in downtown Ottawa.
I'm sure it's a minority, but it depends what you mean by "small". I suspect that it is getting to be meaningful numbers, particularly for those in their 20s. Just based on surveys done in other areas, I suspect that bikers and walkers make up the majority of Elgin St. patrons.

P.S. I never claimed to take my wife to high-end restaurants.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
I'm actually right in your demographic, with the exception that I don't live in the suburbs. I go to Elgin with my wife to eat out fairly regularly, and we generally bike there in the warmer months, heels or no heels. Perhaps I just picked the right wife!

Based on the challenge of finding a bike parking spot around Elgin, and the fact that lots of our friends also bike, my sense is that quite a lot of people in the closer parts of town do the same.
What restaurant are you going to by bike? Is anyone that were mentioned? If you do go to Beckta, Common or the other that were mentioned by bike, not sure what you we wearing, but I'm very impressed.

I was being a bit specific.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:40 PM
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I've biked in nice clothes before. Not long distances, but 3-5km at a leisurely pace is entirely doable in a suit. A notable example; Catherine Mackenna bikes to work in her Parliament clothes every day.

Not that you'd need a suit for almost any of the businesses on Elgin, mind you.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Published on: January 11, 2017 | Last Updated: January 11, 2017 9:28 AM EST

The City of Ottawa is holding a public open house on Wednesday
Wednesday? As in today? January 11? They day they published the announcement? Why do these things get announced with so little notice? As it stands I wouldn't have been able to attend regardless, but it seems like they don't want anyone to attend.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
I'm sure it's a minority, but it depends what you mean by "small". I suspect that it is getting to be meaningful numbers, particularly for those in their 20s. Just based on surveys done in other areas, I suspect that bikers and walkers make up the majority of Elgin St. patrons.

P.S. I never claimed to take my wife to high-end restaurants.
I'm not sure I would group walkers in bikers in the same group. Walkers have overlapping interests with side street parkers and (to some extent) transit users, which is better sidewalks, which is the opposite interest of the bikers (which want more pavement space). Also walking to a restaurant on Elgin is a pretty common, particularly for centretown/downtown residents, students, and downtown workers. Biking to a restaurant or bar is a pretty niche activity (at least in Ottawa; it is pretty common in the Netherlands).

I think it depends on the business. Some businesses cater mostly to local residents, others (particularly the trendier restaurants) clearly have a larger catchment area.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Wednesday? As in today? January 11? They day they published the announcement? Why do these things get announced with so little notice? As it stands I wouldn't have been able to attend regardless, but it seems like they don't want anyone to attend.
It was announced some time ago. Registration closed Jan 6.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGoods View Post
What restaurant are you going to by bike? Is anyone that were mentioned? If you do go to Beckta, Common or the other that were mentioned by bike, not sure what you we wearing, but I'm very impressed.

I was being a bit specific.
We go to Town and Frescos (R.I.P.) for the most part. Also Oz Cafe before it moved. Have gone to Beckta once. Otherwise it is typically one of the more casual pubs.

We're only about 2 km away, so it is a pretty easy, flat ride, and it means that there is no need for one of us to play DD. And while I'm bragging, I can also tell you that I bike to work downtown in my work clothes (or at least I did until my bike got stolen from my garage in October).

All in all though, my wife is more impressive by far - she'll do all of that in a dress.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2017, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
We go to Town and Frescos (R.I.P.) for the most part. Also Oz Cafe before it moved. Have gone to Beckta once. Otherwise it is typically one of the more casual pubs.

We're only about 2 km away, so it is a pretty easy, flat ride, and it means that there is no need for one of us to play DD. And while I'm bragging, I can also tell you that I bike to work downtown in my work clothes (or at least I did until my bike got stolen from my garage in October).

All in all though, my wife is more impressive by far - she'll do all of that in a dress.
I'd say this is still pretty niche, although both impressive and growing.

BTW, I think "impaired cycling" is against the law. But you already knew that I assume...
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