Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Maybe they should just put shields in for bus drivers if they don't have to worry about the money.

Wish granted!

[bomberjet]

I'm not trying to be a dick about it... But man.

My uncle whos heavily into the union talks the same way. "Nope, not my job to do that." Even though you could easily do it. But nope, not his yob man.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm not trying to be a dick about it... But man.

My uncle whos heavily into the union talks the same way. "Nope, not my job to do that." Even though you could easily do it. But nope, not his yob man.

If someone is expecting your uncle to be a fare enforcer, then I'd say he has a point.

[bomberjet]

Not about fare evasion haha I'll let this one be.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by esquire

Wish granted!

That's a "photo op" smile on Bowman if I ever saw one.

[GlassCity]

I've seen a lot of bus drivers argue with fare evaders, and it's so not worth it. They're not gonna pay anyway, and the drivers could get hurt, and it wastes time. Esquire's right, if fare enforcement is a concern, that's what cops are for. This isn't about I'm union, not my job, etc. I don't want buses slowed down and I don't want drivers getting hurt over $2.70

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Have you ever seen someone pay double because they hadn't paid before?

Yup. Happens once in a blue moon. Most of them have no intention of ever paying.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Oyy. Sounds like a union job.

Not my yob man.

I'm only here so I don't get fined.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's part of WT's assault prevention policy set down by management. A bus operator can be reprimanded if they are assaulted because they tried to enforce the fare. Ask once is what is required. Inform the fare evader what bus fare is. Then it's pay double next time. Most assaults on bus operators have been due to fare disputes. For repeat offenders a call to the control centre is in order, but it's not often that an inspector can make it out before they get off the bus.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm not advocating the bus driver get out of his seat and forcibly remove the person. But at least same something like 'hey you gotta pay to ride the bus'. Maybe they call the supervisor every time someone evades fare. Otherwise why would anyone pay? Maybe my expectations are too high.

IMO, if you want to ride the bus, you pay. If not, you don't ride the bus. That's pretty clear and simple.

100% agree with you, but your expectations are too high for the system we have. We'd need 100 inspectors to deal with every fare evasion. Ain't happening.

[Curmudgeon]

The whole argument is pointless as fare enforcement and administration of fine collection would cost several times more than any losses incurred by fare evasion. Almost exclusively, those who avoid paying the fare do so because they don't have the $2.70 to begin with. As it is a public service in a city that can on some days endure dangerous weather conditions, some evasion has to be expected, and tolerated. As is, 98% pay their fare.

Reminds me of the arguments by some in the 80s and 90s that spiralling deficits were to blame on "welfare moms". Inflammatory and diversionary.

[headhorse]

if transit was free there would be no fare disputes

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by headhorse

if transit was free there would be no fare disputes

If horses had horns they’d be unicorns.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The whole argument is pointless as fare enforcement and administration of fine collection would cost several times more than any losses incurred by fare evasion. Almost exclusively, those who avoid paying the fare do so because they don't have the $2.70 to begin with.

Transit police forces tend to be revenue positive. The problem evaders spend all their money on drugs, booze or cigarettes.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

Transit police forces tend to be revenue positive. The problem evaders spend all their money on drugs, booze or cigarettes.

Transit police may very well be revenue positive in cities such as Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. The TTC averages 2.7 million riders per day and STCUM 2.1 million. In Vancouver, about 600,000 use SkyTrain and the Canada Line on an average day and with the addition of the bus and SeaBus routes, it is fair to estimate that total daily ridership certainly must be close to or over a million.

Fare enforcement is much more efficient at rapid transit stations beyond the fare paid zone. Not suggesting it does not occur, but in Vancouver I have never seen fare enforcement undertaken on buses or at bus stops, but quite often on the SkyTrain and Canada Line, both on the platforms and on the trains.

Winnipeg Transit's average daily ridership is 130,000 and with an entirely bus-based system, it would be almost an impossibility that hiring and equipping a transit police force plus the administrative costs of fine enforcement would ever result in being revenue positive.

[buzzg]

^Agreed. Maybe once we have a bigger RT system, with more riders, and the possible of pre-pay zones, then it makes more sense.

In Berlin the entire transit system is an honour system, and they just come around and check your tickets. I was there with 5 friends backpacking and our tickets were all (knowingly) expired – they all got fined and I hopped off at the station and got back on at the next one lol.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Winnipeg Transit's average daily ridership is 130,000 and with an entirely bus-based system, it would be almost an impossibility that hiring and equipping a transit police force plus the administrative costs of fine enforcement would ever result in being revenue positive.

Believe it or not, cheaper than the useless foot patrol inspectors being used now, and more effective since they would actually have police powers such as arrest and being able to ID people. One smaller than Winnipeg city in the US started with a force of only 6 on a trial basis and found it was so successful that they increased the number of officers to 14.

WPS would do the administrating so really no extra cost there. A 1st or second year constable earns less than a full time WT inspector too.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

Believe it or not, cheaper than the useless foot patrol inspectors being used now, and more effective since they would actually have police powers such as arrest and being able to ID people. One smaller than Winnipeg city in the US started with a force of only 6 on a trial basis and found it was so successful that they increased the number of officers to 14.

WPS would do the administrating so really no extra cost there. A 1st or second year constable earns less than a full time WT inspector too.

Shouldn't be that hard to implement some form of transit police service as a branch of the WPS. I'm sure you know what the problem routes are as do most other transit operators.

[headhorse]

jesus, the last things we need is more cops in this city. they already place a huge financial strain. not to mention putting cops on busses will make a ton of people feel unsafe riding them and lower ridership.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by headhorse

jesus, the last things we need is more cops in this city. they already place a huge financial strain. not to mention putting cops on busses will make a ton of people feel unsafe riding them and lower ridership.

Having been a transit user in a few places (including Vancouver, Montreal, Saskatoon and Winnipeg) I have always felt much safer when transit security and transit police have been present on buses/trains vs when they are absent. By a large margin. Bus driver's are pretty much useless at conflict resolution (no offense to them, it's part of their de-escalation policy) and there have been several instances when I wish there were a security force present due to threatening behaviors of certain individuals.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by headhorse

jesus, the last things we need is more cops in this city. they already place a huge financial strain. not to mention putting cops on busses will make a ton of people feel unsafe riding them and lower ridership.

It is a city riddled with crime. We need lots of cops, the more the better.