Saskatoon | Remai Art Gallery of Saskatchewan | Completed

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by Stormer

How is it possible to spend so much money operating a gallery that is not operating? I fear this does not bode well for the sustainability of this venue.

No kidding. Based on the figures noted above for revenues (even for a short partial season vs. operating costs) this place is going to be far from self-sufficient. I presume the difference is going to be made up through the "tourism revenue" that is to be generated by the existence of this gallery.

While I don't object to the gallery being built, I do find it offensive that those involved with the gallery are maintaining that this will provide a net positive cash flow for the City of Saskatoon. It will be a taxpayer funded city amenity, no different than our swimming pools and other recreational facilities.

[Echoes]

Reports on Twitter that the $3.1M from Ottawa is to finish the marquee and feature galleries and buy specialized equipment.

No dispute here to comments on the significant cost of this project, but we've known that that it's been over budget for quite some time. This cash helps fill that hole I guess.

In the end, I still believe the investment is worth it. In future decades, with the cost somewhat faded from memory, people will point to it as one of the reasons that Saskatoon is a great place to live. Few ambitious new public institutions/projects escape initial scorn and controversy, but inevitably most become imbedded in and seen as essential to the fabric of a community (See: Centennial Auditorium, Meewasin, River Landing).

(That doesn't mean criticisms over ballooning costs aren't valid.)

[The Bess]

I agree Echoes, the costs always seem to be over when it comes to this type of construction which is very specialized, but it will be and is a great addition to Saskatoon, it may take awhile for some people to agree with that and some may never agree with that but it makes a city more complete with amenities like this, an arena or casino may make this area even more desirable, although that may never happen especially the casino.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Reports on Twitter that the $3.1M from Ottawa is to finish the marquee and feature galleries and buy specialized equipment.

No dispute here to comments on the significant cost of this project, but we've known that that it's been over budget for quite some time. This cash helps fill that hole I guess.

In the end, I still believe the investment is worth it. In future decades, with the cost somewhat faded from memory, people will point to it as one of the reasons that Saskatoon is a great place to live. Few ambitious new public institutions/projects escape initial scorn and controversy, but inevitably most become imbedded in and seen as essential to the fabric of a community (See: Centennial Auditorium, Meewasin, River Landing).

(That doesn't mean criticisms over ballooning costs aren't valid.)

I actually was referring to operating deficits which will go on forever. If they are spending $8 million per year when it is not even open, what is going to happen in the future. They do not seem very focussed on keeping costs in line. Will the taxpayers be willing to shell out $10 million per year forever?

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Stormer

I actually was referring to operating deficits which will go on forever. If they are spending $8 million per year when it is not even open, what is going to happen in the future. They do not seem very focussed on keeping costs in line. Will the taxpayers be willing to shell out $10 million per year forever?

Yeah, fair point, and definite cause for concern. I'm interested in seeing what kind of revenue this place can generate to offset taxpayer subsidy once it's up and running. Will it be as popular a place for weddings, private events, and business meetings as anticipated?

Some on City Council tried to knock the board down a peg during budget deliberations in December, but in the end I think they only shaved $75,000 off the Remai's budget. That's less than a slap on the wrist.

[Echoes]

StarPhoenix photo from Feb. 17:



http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local...ral-government

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Yeah, fair point, and definite cause for concern. I'm interested in seeing what kind of revenue this place can generate to offset taxpayer subsidy once it's up and running. Will it be as popular a place for weddings, private events, and business meetings as anticipated?

Some on City Council tried to knock the board down a peg during budget deliberations in December, but in the end I think they only shaved $75,000 off the Remai's budget. That's less than a slap on the wrist.

Revenue's will be a tiny drop in the bucket if they maintain their free admission policy.

I am excited to visit and would definitely book a business event there. I probably don't represent the masses though.

[dsmmace]

I'd be great if the subcontractors were actually paid for the work they completed on this project, instead of years of runarounds, phone calls, emails and empty promises.

YES I SAID IT.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by dsmmace

I'd be great if the subcontractors were actually paid for the work they completed on this project, instead of years of runarounds, phone calls, emails and empty promises.

YES I SAID IT.

Yup. There's a reason E-D is shutting down their Saskatchewan operation. Tough to execute projects here if there are no subtrades that will work for you.

[The Bess]

I am in construction and fabrication industry and deal quite often with contracts, maybe they should have read this. Never trust anyone.

http://www.jml.ca/wp-content/uploads...Contractor.pdf

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by The Bess

I am in construction and fabrication industry and deal quite often with contracts, maybe they should have read this. Never trust anyone.

http://www.jml.ca/wp-content/uploads...Contractor.pdf

The link deals mainly with tendering law & types of surety. Not sure how that is relevant to trade contractors being late paid, or unpaid. Now, if you'd provided a link to potential Prompt Payment legislation that would be relevant.

That being said, I'm sure the E-D rues the day that they were the low bidder on that job. Whoever got the contract for the Remai was going to struggle with the incomplete and constantly changing documents on the project.

[The Bess]

yes that is where you make your deals is in tendering and having a bond with the low bidder usually worth about 10% hold back you the subcontractors can get paid from this, that is how its relevant. Not sure what you have been involved in but that is what I know as a fact as I have been there.

[The Bess]

please read this i am sure it ties in with the law and bond article

http://www.canadiancontractor.ca/can...ing-paid/4010/

[dsmmace]

I'm not spending $20,000 in legal costs to get $37,000, the systems we have handcuffs you to take the loss. Nothing I can do but never work for them again.

[The Bess]

Exactly dsmace that is what the problem is, everything cost too much for small contractors, bonds, getting a good contract done, but the city should have had this in their contract with the hold back to pay guys like you money that is owed if the job was satisfactory. Someone there not doing their job.

[dsmmace]

It's not about small or big contractors, it isn't worth the time to pursue based on our current system. A system needs to be put in place to ensure the subcontractors that work on these projects need to get paid. EllisDon is the worst offender, I have 2 jobs they failed to pay or they partially paid the invoices. There was nothing wrong with the quality of work, 'oh I didn't get that invoice. (I have read receipt) Oh I must of lost it, did you fill out blah blah blah form?. The bullshit went on for over a year. AND I KNOW I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE!

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by dsmmace

I'm not spending $20,000 in legal costs to get $37,000, the systems we have handcuffs you to take the loss. Nothing I can do but never work for them again.

Originally Posted by dsmmace

It's not about small or big contractors, it isn't worth the time to pursue based on our current system. A system needs to be put in place to ensure the subcontractors that work on these projects need to get paid. EllisDon is the worst offender, I have 2 jobs they failed to pay or they partially paid the invoices. There was nothing wrong with the quality of work, 'oh I didn't get that invoice. (I have read receipt) Oh I must of lost it, did you fill out blah blah blah form?. The bullshit went on for over a year. AND I KNOW I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE!

While I am legitimately sorry to hear that you got screwed around by E-D, I have limited sympathy for any subcontractors and suppliers who suffered this fate. When EllisDon was first coming to town to construct the new Police Station, there was plenty of talk in the industry about their reputation for taking advantage of trade contractors and leaving them high & dry, looking to be paid.

To any trades that are crying "I didn't know they would treat me like that", I say that if you didn't know the reputation of E-D ahead of time, you certainly should have. Any questions or discussions with anyone who has been in the industry for a reasonable amount of time would have quickly revealed that this type of behaviour was typical of E-D. Forewarned is forearmed and education through experience is typically expensive.

As you say, you are not the only one. There are plenty of experienced trade contractors and suppliers who had been warned of what was coming, entered into subcontractors with E-D and got burned. This is a relatively small industry in this province and contractors reputations, good or bad, are fairly easy to identify if one takes the time to do some investigation prior to signing on the dotted line.

[Echoes]

IMG_9514 by Echoes Saskatoon, on Flickr

[Brutopian]

Originally Posted by Echoes

IMG_9514 by Echoes Saskatoon, on Flickr

Beautiful photo, Echoes.

I can now picture in my mind the condo tower and Alt Hotel on the riverbank beside the Remai Modern, and it's an impressive sight.

[prairieguy]

I also appreciate how the gallery now pretty much blocks out the view of the ugly seniors tower behind it....was always an eyesore to me.