Residents Increasingly Have Negative View of Developers

[whatnext]

I know it will come as a shock to the many forumers who hang on developers' every words as gospel, but the general public doesn't share that rosy view:

..Earlier this month, only 31% of Metro Vancouverites said they had a positive opinion of real estate developers, while 58% outlined negative views. In stark contrast, the rating flips for building contractors, who have a positive rating of 51% and a negative rating of 39%.

One of the issues that have played a role in the sudden loss of esteem for real estate developers is the perception of cosiness with sitting municipal administrations. This becomes clear when Metro Vancouverites are asked a simple question: who has more influence on the look and feel of your municipality?

Across the Lower Mainland, only 24% of residents believe their municipal government is the deciding authority when it comes to the future of neighbourhoods. A slightly smaller proportion (22%) believe the community itself has more influence.

Who is regarded as the most powerful voice when it comes to how our neighbourhoods look and feel? Developers, as stated by two in five Metro Vancouverites (39%)...

https://biv.com/article/2018/09/resi...ate-developers

[LeftCoaster]

If you're so anti-development why are you on this site?

There are much better platforms to discuss politics and immigration than a forum devoted to urban development.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

If you're so anti-development why are you on this site?

There are much better platforms to discuss politics and immigration than a forum devoted to urban development.

Because as we see so often in Vancouver, politics is development:

Vision’s Louie, PoCo’s Moore Openly Court Jobs with Developers
‘Maybe some paid gig’: Councillor and mayor ponder post-politics future at industry event.
https://thetyee.ca/News/2018/09/25/V...rt-Developers/

And are you seriously going to try and argue Canada's immigration woes haven't directly influenced urban development in Vancouver?

[misher]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

If you're so anti-development why are you on this site?

There are much better platforms to discuss politics and immigration than a forum devoted to urban development.

Developers are seen as for profit and high real estate costs are partially blamed on them because when things happen people will blame the easiest target which is usually rich people. But the city doesn’t build most of our real estate so we need developers to be interested with a government/climate that favors them so they keep building instead of going elsewhere.

It’s similar to the rental situation, we need more rentals but we hate rental owners for the high costs to rent, so tenants say put more restrictions in, but many realize more restrictions scare off rental owners and means there’s less rentals availible.



To sum it up, even if you hate the devil you got to work with him. It’s tempting for politicians to listen to many voters and screw the easy targets, and some politicians do it, but most appear to say it but actually work with them because they know they have to.

[dleung]

I bet Whatnext is a Trump supporter... "whatnext? Transgenders in the military? Say what???"

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by dleung

I bet Whatnext is a Trump supporter... "whatnext? Transgenders in the military? Say what???"

LOL, so now you're acquainting developers with social justice?!

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And are you seriously going to try and argue Canada's immigration woes haven't directly influenced urban development in Vancouver?

Well of course not, it just seems a weird venue for someone like yourself.

The purpose of this site is to discuss skyscrapers and urbanism, not complain about immigration politics. I feel like r/Vancouver would be a much more fitting venue.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by dleung

I bet Whatnext is a Trump supporter... "whatnext? Transgenders in the military? Say what???"

Leave Trump in the American forums where he belongs, please.

For the record I don't think that this topic is taboo. The average developer's effect on the community is definitely something that should be at least be discussed. And I can see why, as you don't have to look any further than Metrotown to watch developers push people out of their homes so that they can sell condos to Asia.

[LeftCoaster]

Taboo?

It's all we ever talk about on this forum and frankly I think it's a beaten horse.

I think this forum is at it's best when we're discussing architecture, urbanism and infrastructure, not endless arguments about politics.

Case in point of Whatnext's last 40 posts, 39 have been about politics and 1 about architecture.

Politics as a discussion point is not a problem, I just think that this is not the best venue if that's ALL you want to discuss.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Taboo?

It's all we ever talk about on this forum and frankly I think it's a beaten horse.

I think this forum is at it's best when we're discussing architecture, urbanism and infrastructure, not endless arguments about politics.

Case in point of Whatnext's last 40 posts, 39 have been about politics and 1 about architecture.

Politics as a discussion point is not a problem, I just think that this is not the best venue if that's ALL you want to discuss.

In a similar vein one could argue the YVR Airport thread is largely posts about sked changes and almost nothing to do with the built form of the airport. Discussion better suited to airliners.net, no?

[misher]

Originally Posted by scryer

Leave Trump in the American forums where he belongs, please.

For the record I don't think that this topic is taboo. The average developer's effect on the community is definitely something that should be at least be discussed. And I can see why, as you don't have to look any further than Metrotown to watch developers push people out of their homes so that they can sell condos to Asia.

We can talk about being anti immigration but in the end numbers don't lie. Our population grows at around 1% even with us being as open to immigrants as we are. We rely on immigrants for people because otherwise our country would die. We need youth to pay taxes to afford to pay for our aging population and increasing social security/welfare burdens. We can complain about immigrants but in the end we need more! Not less. Or we need to push people to have more kids. Probably shouldn't have chased down that polygamy guy with 24 wives and 145 kids, he was helping us quite a bit. A few more like him and we can shutdown immigration! (Not supporting child marriage here, but honestly a cult that has 5 kids for each woman really does benefit us a lot long as the kids are well taken care of).

Also the interior is dying and honestly immigrants pushing locals out of Vancouver into the interior helps. The high price of living in the city also helps restrict people from moving from the interior to here.

Canada honestly needs 2-3x our population. So less anti immigration and more having kids. Maybe if our population growth didn't rely on immigration we can start talking about closing the borders.



And its not like they get big burley people to force people out of their homes. They offer them money, lots of money. And those people say yipee! take the money and move somewhere else for cheaper while pocketing the difference. Rather than push people out of their homes, its a win win situation. In the end we rely on developers to create our rental, below market rental, social, and other types of housing so we can't exactly burn our bridges. They are law abiding citizens/companies who are following our rules and regulations.

At least the homeless non taxpayers still have new homes in the best parts of Vancouver? Aka modular housing.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In a similar vein one could argue the YVR Airport thread is largely posts about sked changes and almost nothing to do with the built form of the airport. Discussion better suited to airliners.net, no?

Well that's a bit of a strawman if I've ever seen one.

I'd gladly stop talking about airline schedule changes on skyscraperpage if everyone else agreed to keep political discussions to one easily avoidable thread and not plastered throughout the entire forum.

How about that for a deal?

[twoNeurons]

I don't think you need to be developer fan to be a skyscraper fan or even a development fan.

There's a lot of corruption and greed involved in the construction world in Vancouver right now and it's been that way for a while. In the end, we want the city's development to be shaped by policies that actually benefit the city, and not ones the line the pockets of specific individuals with the power and influence to make their friends' wallets fatter.

Although I don't think it's "them filthy foreigners" that's the problem ( but they make a good scapegoat ), I will say that like political parties, sometimes you just gotta kick out the current incumbents before they make too many connections. Likewise, we would do well to come down hard on all developers for a while making it hard to make money on a development which hopefully makes the more corrupt ones leave for greener pastures.

Interesting that much of the softening of the market has happened exactly as mortgage rates started their slow climb back up to normalcy. Funny what happens when borrowing money isn't dirt cheap any longer.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by misher

Also the interior is dying and honestly immigrants pushing locals out of Vancouver into the interior helps. The high price of living in the city also helps restrict people from moving from the interior to here.

Canada honestly needs 2-3x our population. So less anti immigration and more having kids. Maybe if our population growth didn't rely on immigration we can start talking about closing the borders.

And its not like they get big burley people to force people out of their homes. They offer them money, lots of money. And those people say yipee! take the money and move somewhere else for cheaper while pocketing the difference.

And lets be honest... the they you speak of is MOSTLY Canadians, taking on more debt than their parents because they are afraid of them the relatively tiny proportion of people who are from another country.

Even if the immigration purchase percent is as high as 10% (high estimates)... that's still 90% who are Canadians... though some Canadians look more foreign than others... so I understand the confusion when A Canadian landed immigrant or born-in-Canada 2nd generation looks-foreign-upon-first-glance person moves in down the street.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well that's a bit of a strawman if I've ever seen one.

I'd gladly stop talking about airline schedule changes on skyscraperpage if everyone else agreed to keep political discussions to one easily avoidable thread and not plastered throughout the entire forum.

How about that for a deal?

I don't think you should stop talking about the sked changes, I find it interesting as well. I'm just saying, as twoNeurons did, politics and development are too intertwined to try and separate. Want to complain about viewcones limiting Project X, oops, politics. Want to rant about a highrise in Grandview-Woodlands killed by NIMBYs, oops, politics again. With housing, and hence skyscrapers, being "the issue" in the civic election how can you divorce the two?

And note of the 39 of my last 40 posts of mine you refer to of mine being political, 32 (not including 3 in this thread) were in threads directly about politics. Given that Dylan made those spaces in SSP for discussion, is that offbase?

[misher]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

And lets be honest... the they you speak of is MOSTLY Canadians, taking on more debt than their parents because they are afraid of them the relatively tiny proportion of people who are from another country.

Even if the immigration purchase percent is as high as 10% (high estimates)... that's still 90% who are Canadians... though some Canadians look more foreign than others... so I understand the confusion when A Canadian landed immigrant or born-in-Canada 2nd generation looks-foreign-upon-first-glance person moves in down the street.

Growing up in Richmond grade 1 we had maybe 2 chinese and 2 indian kids. Grade 12 my class was more than 50% chinese/indian lol. My neighbors were mostly white starting and in 12 years most houses were built by Indians and all looked the same (the garage on the side L shape).

But in the end we're all Canadians. And White Canadians may hate Chinese/Indians who are buying up land and doing better in school (cause lets be honest they are). But remember, First Nations hate White Canadians who bought/took all the land and did better in school (which is why we now have First Nation quotas). So history repeats

PS: Funnily enough, British & European foreigners own a good part of downtown.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Taboo?

It's all we ever talk about on this forum and frankly I think it's a beaten horse.

I think this forum is at it's best when we're discussing architecture, urbanism and infrastructure, not endless arguments about politics.

Case in point of Whatnext's last 40 posts, 39 have been about politics and 1 about architecture.

Politics as a discussion point is not a problem, I just think that this is not the best venue if that's ALL you want to discuss.

Well, there is a politics subforum. Perhaps this thread just needs to be moved, I don't think it qualifies as "Business & the Economy". Mods please...

[dleung]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Residents Increasingly Have Negative View of Developers

In other news, residents increasingly have negative view on politicians, multi-national corporations, taxes, honeydew in fruit platters, etc

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I don't think you should stop talking about the sked changes, I find it interesting as well. I'm just saying, as twoNeurons did, politics and development are too intertwined to try and separate. Want to complain about viewcones limiting Project X, oops, politics. Want to rant about a highrise in Grandview-Woodlands killed by NIMBYs, oops, politics again. With housing, and hence skyscrapers, being "the issue" in the civic election how can you divorce the two?

And note of the 39 of my last 40 posts of mine you refer to of mine being political, 32 (not including 3 in this thread) were in threads directly about politics. Given that Dylan made those spaces in SSP for discussion, is that offbase?

Just brings me back to my original question of if all you want to talk about is politics, why this forum? There's nothing wrong with talking about it in threads directly about politics, but it just seems weird you'd join an urban/skyscraper forum with the explicit intent to discuss politics.

I come on this forum to talk about urbanism and development and chose this forum specifically for that. If I wanted to talk about politics ad naseaum I'd go to a different forum or just stick to the news.

Anyway it's not up to me to tell people how and where to post, I just find it an odd venue.

[Sheba]

Developer gets earful from judge for 'evasiveness,' wins $1 in defamation suit

A multimillionaire developer has been awarded a paltry $1 for defamation, while earning a healthy scolding from a B.C. judge for his "lack of candour with the court."

In a judgment issued Friday, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Neena Sharma rebuked Miaofei Pan for his conduct during his defamation trial against Vancouver blogger Bing Chen Gao, writing that she had serious concerns about his credibility.

Though Sharma ruled that Gao had defamed Pan in two of 10 online articles named in the suit, she also said some of Gao's most inflammatory claims about Pan appeared to be true — including allegations of tax evasion. She rejected Pan's suggestion of damages between $360,000 and $450,000 and said a single dollar would be more appropriate,

"I am disturbed by the plaintiff's lack of candour with the court, manifested both in his testimony and his lack of document production in this litigation," Sharma wrote.

...

Pan is a real estate developer who once hosted a fundraiser for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at Pan's West Vancouver mansion. Pan moved to Canada from China more than a decade ago — according to his legal submissions, he'd been embroiled in business "troubles" and lawsuits in his home country.

Another mansion Pan owns in Vancouver's ritzy Shaughnessy neighbourhood was severely damaged in a suspected arson last year. Four months after the fire, Pan was ordered by the city to fix up the property.

Meanwhile Gao, who uses the pen name Huang Hebian, spent two decades as a journalist in China, and now writes for Chinese language media outlets in Canada. He testified that he wrote about Pan because he wanted to expose "problematic" leaders in the Chinese-Canadian community.

...