PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[glowrock]

Welcome to the merry band of misfits here at SSP, spiper! Kind of funny, I happen to know a good number of recent Pittsburghers who've come here from the Chicago/rest of Illinois area in the last few months!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[spiper]

Originally Posted by glowrock

Welcome to the merry band of misfits here at SSP, spiper! Kind of funny, I happen to know a good number of recent Pittsburghers who've come here from the Chicago/rest of Illinois area in the last few months!

Aaron (Glowrock)

Thanks for the warm welcome, glowrock. Like Chicago, PGH appears to be in the midst of a real development boom. It seems like every few days an interesting new mixed-use/office/apartment proposal materializes. Loving the flurry of activity here.

I'm also amazed at how PGH is honoring its rich historic building stock. While walking around my neighborhood yesterday, I came upon this just begun rehab of an old schoolhouse. I'm guessing loft apartments? The building's in Lawrenceville, off of Hatfield and 49th street. I tried to dig up any info, but couldn't find a thing. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[Jonboy1983]

I just had a thought. With some of the recent talk about how to fund a rapid transit project between Downtown and Oakland, suppose we were to entice the private sector to contribute to some of the cost, like if perhaps UPMC were to fund a chunk of it, considering how they're not paying much in the way of city/county taxes? I'd be willing to bet that many UPMC employees (executives as well as doctors/nurses/healthcare administrators, etc alike) would likely be traveling between Downtown and Oakland enough to support such an undertaking. It's just a thought. I'm sure it's about as likely a me getting a hole in one tomorrow...

[BrianTH]

I believe some hospitals provided some funding for the "HealthLine" in Cleveland (hence the name).

[daviderik]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

I just had a thought. With some of the recent talk about how to fund a rapid transit project between Downtown and Oakland, suppose we were to entice the private sector to contribute to some of the cost, like if perhaps UPMC were to fund a chunk of it, considering how they're not paying much in the way of city/county taxes? I'd be willing to bet that many UPMC employees (executives as well as doctors/nurses/healthcare administrators, etc alike) would likely be traveling between Downtown and Oakland enough to support such an undertaking. It's just a thought. I'm sure it's about as likely a me getting a hole in one tomorrow...

Good Idea. But I wonder how much of a "chunk" would help on such an extensive project. Are there numbers on overall cost? I would Love a tunnel from steel plaza to oakland. Honestly that would go a long way turning pittsburgh into a modern metro area. Plus direct funding would work better than the filtering it through the bureaucracyof government. But no doubt public funding is still required.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by daviderik

Good Idea. But I wonder how much of a "chunk" would help on such an extensive project. Are there numbers on overall cost? I would Love a tunnel from steel plaza to oakland. Honestly that would go a long way turning pittsburgh into a modern metro area. Plus direct funding would work better than the filtering it through the bureaucracyof government. But no doubt public funding is still required.

Oh of course, public funding is still required. My beef is that if PNC can take $400 million of their own money and build a new state-of-the-art HQ tower, why can't UPMC or other companies pony up that kind of money for something their employees will likely use and depend on day in and day out? I know that UPMC's profits are astronomical and they're already sitting on a mountain of green. I don't know what they make compared to PNC, but I do know that in the first quarter of this year PNC made $800 million. It would be neet if PNC and UPMC could come in and provide some kind of joint funding for, oh I don't know, $1 billion ($500m each), but I know that would be a long shot. It's just a way to encourage private interest in investing in our upgraded infrastructure.

I know that heavy rail subway lines are not exactly the "in" thing when looking at other cities. When you look at Downtown and Oakland and the very likely high travel demand between both, I think a heavy rail line is needed here. BRT is a good idea for now; it's relatively inexpensive, but those buses are going to be bursting at the seams.

BrianTH, good to know about the Health Line in Cleveland. Isn't that the BRT line that runs right through the heard of Downtown? I've seen it. That is a pretty sweet BRT line they have there. Still, maybe that could be used as a model for Pittsburgh to find the financing necessary to expand its transit network.

I actually have a pipedream I'm working on in both Google Earth and Sketchup. It invloves extending the T to the airport and Cranberry. My alignment to the Airport calls for an Ohio River crossing that would align it with the West Busway and follow that through Carnegie, then loop up to parallel I-79 and eventually the Parkway West... I have a 3rd extension extending from 1st Avenue to Rankin, and actually 2 heavy rail ideas. My heavy rail idea will extend beyond Downtown and cross under teh Allegheny River beneath the Clemente Bridge and directly serve Allegheny Center and the Mexican War Streets and away from Oakland out to Wilkinsburg at the other end. I also have another spur that would follow Penn Avenue from East Liberty through Lawrenceville and the Strip to Steel Plaza.

This is my map of this pipedream courtesy of Google Earth. Got $20 billion anyone? I figure the tunnel to Oakland would cost around $2 billion, by the way, based on previous discussions of how to improve/expand our transit.

[glowrock]

I have no problem with a legitimate BRT line running between Downtown and Oakland/CMU, to be honest with you. It's much, much less expensive than any sort of heavy rail, especially heavy rail which requires tunneling. As long as the BRT buses are clean, clearly marked as BRT and the stations are reasonably comfortable for passengers, I'm all for it. Obviously things like signal priority and the like need to happen as well. Let's face it, heavy rail here is more or less a pipe dream right now, especially for a city and metro area that's only just started to gain in overall population over the last couple of years. The chances of federal funding are nearly zero for heavy rail, but perhaps somewhat feasible for something like an enhanced BRT system. Besides, Pittsburgh's current BRT system is quite good and simply need to be extended to properly include the Oakland/University area. I definitely would like to see something from Downtown up through Lawrenceville as well, right through the Strip District.

Cleveland's Health Line is very nice, but of course it's easier when you've only got one main drag (Euclid Ave.) to travel on between downtown and the major health clinics/universities/museums a few miles to the east. Not to mention that there aren't the topographical challenges there like Pittsburgh's got.

Perhaps light rail could work, maybe a traditional streetcar route or two as well. But underground heavy rail? Not a chance, just too freaking expensive.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[spiper]

Originally Posted by glowrock

I definitely would like to see something from Downtown up through Lawrenceville as well, right through the Strip District.
Aaron (Glowrock)

I'll second that, glowrock. It would be nice to see rapid transit extended to parts of the city that are experiencing major growth. Our current options in this part of the city are less than ideal – I have an interview tomorrow in the cbd, and the prospect of 3 bus transfers and $6 dollars in fares will instead entice me to ride a bike while wearing my one decent suit.

Pipe dreams aside, what are the chances of the rail right-of-way running through the strip to highland park one day being used for a much needed LRT line?

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by spiper

I'll second that, glowrock. It would be nice to see rapid transit extended to parts of the city that are experiencing major growth. Our current options in this part of the city are less than ideal – I have an interview tomorrow in the cbd, and the prospect of 3 bus transfers and $6 dollars in fares will instead entice me to ride a bike while wearing my one decent suit.

Pipe dreams aside, what are the chances of the rail right-of-way running through the strip to highland park one day being used for a much needed LRT line?

Funny you should menton that. AVR owns right of way from Downtown through the Strip and out to Lower Burrel in Westmoreland County. They want to have a commuter rail line run from Penn Station out to Arnold/Lower Burrel. There were articles all over the PG and Trib about this. Come to think of it, I think they also want to have the 6-car trains originate at Steel Plaza (or at leat have some kind of LRT/heavy rail combo/transfer point along the stretch. I don't think you're going to get 6-car heavy rail trains into Steel Plaza...

I kinda hatched an idea of having a surface street car running from the Cultural District to Highland Park.

I realize this stuff is cost-prohibitive. That's why I came up with the idea of encouraging the private sector to jump onboard with some funding. I suggested UPMC because of the hospital workers as well as some of the executive workers looking to travel from the US Steel building to the hospitals out there. I could also see perhaps the University of Pittsburgh jumping on here as well with all the students who would likely use such service. Maybe with substantial private funding perhaps then could federal money be set aside for this. I know that was not the case with the North Shore extension, hence just one of the controversies associated with it. That was almost entirely federal money, wasn't it?

Port Authority already owns ROW along 5th Avenue, don't they? Does anyone know how much ROW they own (i.e. 40ft, 50ft, from Ross St. to Bigelow Blvd. etc) or how I might be able to obtain this information?

[BrianTH]

The point I always like to make when people are discussing BRT versus a subway for Downtown to Oakland is that even if we eventually get the subway, a BRT corridor would remain very useful. That is because there is likely always going to be a network of buses running through the East End and into the eastern suburbs that is funneled through Oakland, and giving those buses a common BRT corridor to use for service through Oakland and on into Downtown would be great even if they were not collecting any additional Oakland-to-Downtown traffic.

So starting with the BRT corridor, if that is what we can fund for now, is fine with me. And in fact I think it is very likely such a corridor would help speed along the development of the Bluff/Uptown, which in turn would likely improve the case for the subway and hasten the point at which funding it becomes a possibility.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The point I always like to make when people are discussing BRT versus a subway for Downtown to Oakland is that even if we eventually get the subway, a BRT corridor would remain very useful. That is because there is likely always going to be a network of buses running through the East End and into the eastern suburbs that is funneled through Oakland, and giving those buses a common BRT corridor to use for service through Oakland and on into Downtown would be great even if they were not collecting any additional Oakland-to-Downtown traffic.

So starting with the BRT corridor, if that is what we can fund for now, is fine with me. And in fact I think it is very likely such a corridor would help speed along the development of the Bluff/Uptown, which in turn would likely improve the case for the subway and hasten the point at which funding it becomes a possibility.

Good point, and it is well taken with me. So basicly having a BRT line there first might make a stronger case for a possible subway link later, as well as boost demand for redevelopmet of the Bluff/Uptown area...

[KINGPIN]

Just seen this on WTAE This Morning!
Hope it materializes and leads to bigger things-video on wtae

Mayor: Time for Pittsburgh's 3rd renaissance has come
Mayor Luke Ravenstahl details plans to revitalize downtown corridors
For Pittsburgh, the time is here, and it’s now.


Mayor Luke Ravenstahl says the time is here and now for Pittsburgh to experience its third renaissance by revitalizing key downtown corridors.

That was the message conveyed by Mayor Luke Ravenstahl at a Wednesday news conference outlining his vision to revamp the city’s Golden Triangle in the coming years.

“The message of the strategy is really short and simple: Pittsburgh here and now. This statement acknowledges and embraces the direction and momentum of the city and its many assets. Our time has come and the rest of the world has taken note,” said Ravenstahl.

For the past year, the mayor’s Downtown Stakeholders Working Group has been developing a 3-year plan, known as the Downtown Action Strategy, to attract and retain retail businesses by revitalizing the city’s key corridors, such as those along Smithfield Street, Forbes Avenue and Wood Street.

“Going forward, this will be a partnership between local government and the private sector. Today is about a vision and what we want to see happen. From there, that vision will be fulfilled through funding sources," said Ravenstahl.

The mayor said the issue isn’t so much about the money, but rather having a vision for what downtown can become.

“To have all these retailers working together in a way they haven’t before, I think is important and a great step,” he said.

Ravenstahl said adding trees, lighting and other amenities will first improve street infrastructure and encourage more foot traffic in targeted areas.

“Right now, some of our primary corridors in downtown Pittsburgh do not provide the atmosphere that encourages people to walk around and to enjoy the quality of shopping and dining that’s available,” he said.

The mayor acknowledged that competing with malls in suburban areas won’t be easy, but cited Market Square’s renewed success as an example of what the future could hold for other areas

Read more: http://www.wtae.com/news/local/alleg...#ixzz2CI0nHWa3


Read more: http://www.wtae.com/news/local/alleg...#ixzz2CI0EGfV1

[BrianTH]

If a "third renaissance" is defined by facade and streetscape improvements, hasn't Downtown already been in its third renaissance for quite a while now?

In any event, there are some good ideas in that proposal, and although it nominally is about attracting more retail activity, it really applies to making Downtown better for any sort of purpose (living, working, etc.).

[kennypip]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

If a "third renaissance" is defined by facade and streetscape improvements, hasn't Downtown already been in its third renaissance for quite a while now?

In any event, there are some good ideas in that proposal, and although it nominally is about attracting more retail activity, it really applies to making Downtown better for any sort of purpose (living, working, etc.).

Should this new round of development be considered renaissance 4? I thought former mayor murphy ushered in renaissance 3?

Renaissance 1 = Gateway Center, Mellon Square, Point State Park, Ft Duquesne Bridge, Fort Pitt Bridge..

Renaissance 2 = Oxford Center, PPG, Mellon Bank Center, Light Rail Subway Tunnels, Liberty Center, 5Th Ave Place, CNG Tower....

Renaissance 3 = River front development, convention center, liberty/5th street reconstruction, mellon client service center, PNC firstside, cultural district preservation, stadia developement (pnc park/heinz field)....

[Evergrey]

I think we should just drop the hokey "Renaissance" branding.

[Dale]

Well, for one thing it implies the notion that Pittsburgh is down in the dumps.

[BrianTH]

I'd agree that once you have lost track of which "renaissance" you are supposed to be in, it is past time to retire the term and just acknowledge that city development tends to ebb and flow a bit.

[themaguffin]

I think it's played out.

[novaCJ]

Multiple renaissances? Nah, most of it has really been just a continuous development over time aimed at general improvement, especially within the past decade or so. Yeah, the market rises and falls, last I checked it's called capitalism, not renaissance.

Seeing that Port Authority just dealt with the results of a huge deficit, I, even at my young, college student age, will be long dead and have had many generations after me before any transit ever develops between Downtown and Oakland.

[daviderik]

That's just the mayors office trying to hurry up and take credit and brand whats currently going on downtown. Fixing the streets? Umm thats what you're suppost to do anyways. That's not a third renaissance, Thats public works. lol.