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  #3861  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2015, 1:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
It's either that or Toronto building a brand new massive stadium for the final. Both options would be extremely costly but renovating the big O would be "cheaper"(strong word there) as the structure is already there. An open air, Olympic configuration, major facelifted Olympic stadium will totally be a worthy World Cup final venue. The sight lines for football or soccer are great.
Right, but it's a terrible structure not purposely really designed for anything anymore. Soccer looks terrible inside the Big O.

Building a new National Stadium in Toronto gets us a brand new, modern, state-of-the-art facility from scratch that can actually represent this country well in international events. The Big O doesn't even come close.
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  #3862  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2015, 2:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
FIFA deflates the capacity of stadiums as they require seating areas for media, dignitaries, etc. Usually capacities are reduced by up to 5,000.
Like Nicko said, the Big O can be modified to hold somewhere in the range of 75-80 thousand, so that even with 5,000 VIP/media/whatever spaces you're still looking at a capacity that is in the same ballpark as other WC final venues from recent years.

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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Right, but it's a terrible structure not purposely really designed for anything anymore. Soccer looks terrible inside the Big O.
Everything looks terrible in the Big O with the big open end... but filling that with seating will cure that in a hurry.

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Building a new National Stadium in Toronto gets us a brand new, modern, state-of-the-art facility from scratch that can actually represent this country well in international events. The Big O doesn't even come close.
Maybe the Big O isn't great, but why not get some more mileage from the one decent international calibre stadium we have instead of spending a billion plus on a new one that will have no purpose after a World Cup? Let's face it, the private sector won't build one because no company wants to lose its shirt on it, and I doubt governments are terribly interested in paying for a money pit stadium. Least of all the Ontario government which farted away millions on Skydome which was ultimately sold for a huge loss at pennies on the dollar to Rogers... and that was a stadium with 2 full time pro tenants.
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  #3863  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2015, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post

Maybe the Big O isn't great, but why not get some more mileage from the one decent international calibre stadium we have instead of spending a billion plus on a new one that will have no purpose after a World Cup? Let's face it, the private sector won't build one because no company wants to lose its shirt on it, and I doubt governments are terribly interested in paying for a money pit stadium. Least of all the Ontario government which farted away millions on Skydome which was ultimately sold for a huge loss at pennies on the dollar to Rogers... and that was a stadium with 2 full time pro tenants.
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  #3864  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2015, 9:35 PM
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  #3865  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 5:14 AM
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Right, but it's a terrible structure not purposely really designed for anything anymore. Soccer looks terrible inside the Big O.
It was build as a multi purpose stadium so the sight lines are great for any sports with rectangular field (soccer, football). It's just an awful baseball stadium because it was never designed this way originally.

As for the structure itself, you either love it or hate but it's kind of hard to call it terrible when it is listed as the 5th most architecturally impressive sports stadium in the World and often make lists for best Olympic stadiums.
http://www.sportsmanagementdegreehub...-in-the-world/
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  #3866  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 7:15 AM
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NFL isn't gonna be in Toronto for a long time. people need to give up on this pipe dream. If a 70K seat stadium gets built it would be through MLSE for TFC with the growing popularity of TFC (not MLS) but TFC they very well may need a 40,000 seat building in another decade.
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  #3867  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 11:52 AM
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NFL isn't gonna be in Toronto for a long time. people need to give up on this pipe dream. If a 70K seat stadium gets built it would be through MLSE for TFC with the growing popularity of TFC (not MLS) but TFC they very well may need a 40,000 seat building in another decade.
Speaking of pipe dreams.

I know never say never and all that, but I'll go out on a limb and say that no one is ever going to build a 70,000 seat stadium for MLS.
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  #3868  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 1:12 PM
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Mmmkay
The NFL in Toronto is not my dream but as we all know it is the dream of many.
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  #3869  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 2:19 PM
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Speaking of pipe dreams.

I know never say never and all that, but I'll go out on a limb and say that no one is ever going to build a 70,000 seat stadium for MLS.
No like I said in my previous post 70,000 for the games designed to be stripped down to 40k after. The the silver lining would be they could partner with MLSE/CSA and all three levels of government. Could make it the cheaper option and Canada would have a proper National stadium

I'm gonna go out on a limb to say No one is gonna built a 70,000 seat for a NFL team that doesn't exist
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  #3870  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
I'm gonna go out on a limb to say No one is gonna built a 70,000 seat for a NFL team that doesn't exist
Not speculatively, that's for sure. The path to a NFL team in Toronto goes through Skydome, at least for the first few seasons. That is, if the baseball team can accept having football players on the field.
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  #3871  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 4:54 PM
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Speaking of pipe dreams.

I know never say never and all that, but I'll go out on a limb and say that no one is ever going to build a 70,000 seat stadium for MLS.
Seattle Sounders already has 43,000+ average attendance (and growing) and Orlando City SC already hit 65,000 at various points this season, 70,000 seat stadiums are coming sooner than later.
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  #3872  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 6:11 PM
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Seattle Sounders already has 43,000+ average attendance (and growing) and Orlando City SC already hit 65,000 at various points this season, 70,000 seat stadiums are coming sooner than later.
Considering that Orlando's new stadium will seat 23,500, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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  #3873  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 6:18 PM
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Considering that Orlando's new stadium will seat 23,500, I wouldn't hold my breath.
That's only because the team in question doesn't own the 65,000 seater (not every team has deep pockets), they'll still use that stadium for big games. The Seattle Sounders example alone should make it clear this will happen eventually. MLS already has better attendance than some European soccer leagues with century-old traditions. Anyway, keep churping, we all know the writing's on the wall...
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  #3874  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 6:20 PM
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Anyway, keep churping but we all know the writing's on the wall...
You let us know when a MLS team builds a 70,000 seat stadium
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  #3875  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 6:26 PM
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You let us know when a MLS team builds a 70,000 seat stadium
Will do. Considering Seattle already has hit the 67,000 limit of their joint soccer-football stadium on several occasions and the fan pressure for a natural grass stadium, it's all quite conceivable and not impossible as the myopic are want to proclaim...
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  #3876  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 6:29 PM
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Canada is likely getting a WC. Olympic gets a renovation that will be needed anyway. 2026 is still 10 years away and the Big O will be even more decrepit by then and will need work done. Since its more costly to blow it up you will have no choice but to renovate it.

So either you dump a ton of money into Montreal and it hosts the finals, or you build a new (temp) 80k stadium in Toronto for the finals. That is what will have to do, that is just what it would have to be as what is in place isn't suitable and Canada would not have a venue for the finals.

The Feds have all that land at Downsview and its connected to transit and close enough to the 401 and 407, that is where it would likely be built. Skydome isn't a factor, its a baseball stadium come next year, and will only be a baseball stadium from April-November.


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Considering that Orlando's new stadium will seat 23,500, I wouldn't hold my breath.
They admitted they (team execs) underestimated the demand in the market. Not sure if they are actually trying to push in more seats into the plan of its workable, or if it's to late, but they want to push it to 27k-29k if possible.
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  #3877  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 6:40 PM
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^ Suspending my doubts that Canada will get the WC for a moment, a renovated Big O would probably be a better bet than a temporary Toronto stadium. At least there would be a decent legacy in the form of a Olympic Stadium with another 50 year or so lease on life instead of a stadium that will be dismantled once the event ends.
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  #3878  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 7:04 PM
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^ Suspending my doubts that Canada will get the WC for a moment, a renovated Big O would probably be a better bet than a temporary Toronto stadium. At least there would be a decent legacy in the form of a Olympic Stadium with another 50 year or so lease on life instead of a stadium that will be dismantled once the event ends.
I think the big elephant in the room regarding a permanent megastadium in Toronto (for the WC or - until recently - the Olympics) really is the NFL.

Hear me out, folks...


What's ironic is that if look at things more closely, it could be at least in part Toronto's tepid support for Canadian-only sports that might cost it the chance to host the WC final if Canada ever hosted the event.

Let's put two and two and two and two together.

- A new stadium for the WC would need a lot of public money.

- That public money is easier to obtain if there is also a legacy facility left over after the event.

- But if the legacy facility's use is destined for something imported from another country like the NFL, and politically loaded for Canadian politicians, then that makes the funding harder to come by.

- It would likely be easier to get public money for a new stadium in Toronto if the Argos, or the Canadian men's national soccer team, or even the Vanier Cup, had some use for that size of stadium every once in a while.

- But alas, they dont. Apparently the only possible future long-term use for a 70-80,000 seat stadium in Canada's largest city of 6 million people is a team that doesn't even exist yet and that would play in the pro football league from the country next door.

So yeah, if Canada hosts the WC, my bet is on the final at the Big O, and Toronto will host a bunch of elimination round games and a semi-final at an expanded 40,000 seat BMO Field.
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  #3879  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 7:07 PM
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^ Pretty much. Toronto dramatically overestimates its appeal to the NFL and has done little to prove it deserves a franchise. Anyone who thinks the governments are going to build an 80,000 seat stadium in the off chance it might attract a NFL expansion team is delusional.

Let's face it, Baltimore supported the CFL and the NFL reacted. Other US cities had solid track records of supporting college football and got a NFL team. I know people in Toronto want to believe it's somehow "different" there (which is the standard retort whenever Baltimore comes up), but believe me, it isn't.

Toronto didn't really even react when the Bills rolled into town, although considering the typically moronic pricing structure that Rogers came up with, that is actually to Toronto's credit.
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  #3880  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 1:21 AM
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Canada is likely getting a WC. Olympic gets a renovation that will be needed anyway. 2026 is still 10 years away and the Big O will be even more decrepit by then and will need work done. Since its more costly to blow it up you will have no choice but to renovate it.

So either you dump a ton of money into Montreal and it hosts the finals, or you build a new (temp) 80k stadium in Toronto for the finals. That is what will have to do, that is just what it would have to be as what is in place isn't suitable and Canada would not have a venue for the finals.

The Feds have all that land at Downsview and its connected to transit and close enough to the 401 and 407, that is where it would likely be built. Skydome isn't a factor, its a baseball stadium come next year, and will only be a baseball stadium from April-November.




They admitted they (team execs) underestimated the demand in the market. Not sure if they are actually trying to push in more seats into the plan of its workable, or if it's to late, but they want to push it to 27k-29k if possible.
I am sorry, but I just can't see Canada ever getting a Men's World Cup. Canada is the least "soccer" nation of any major country in the world. Every other major country in the world has a domestic soccer league (much less 3 or 4 leagues) and teams from ever major city. Soccer is not part of Canada's fabric. 15 of Canada's 20 biggest cities don't even have soccer teams. Almost all have hockey teams, but not soccer teams. True we are getting the Canadian Soccer League but I give that two years before the money dries up and teams draw less than 2,000 a game. London has 14 professional teams, Canada has 5. The truth is we don't deserve soccer's greatest event. We have done nothing to earn the right to take this tournament from some other country where soccer is a true passion and not just a curious event. When the World Cup comes to North America, let it be played in sold out, packed 80,000 seat stadiums down in the states. That will make it close enough for us to attend, without having to spend billions hosting the party.
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