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  #1081  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
For the purposes of discrimination or non-discrimination in terms of jobs, language knowledge is considered a "skill" as opposed to an unchangeable personal characteristic like race, disability, gender, etc. Human rights law also recognizes religion and sexual orientation as unchangeable in this way.

Language skills are hardly unchangeable, so requiring language X for a position is akin to requiring a licence to drive heavy trucks for certain jobs.
Religion is not unchangeable. A characteristic of an individual does not have to be unchangeable in order to justify protecting it as a freedom.
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  #1082  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 2:09 AM
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The U.S. is quite different from Anglo-Canada is that it hasn't been dominated by white Anglo (often Protestant) people for a very, very long time. Traditional mainstream American culture contains many more different influences from African-American to Hawaiian to Louisiana Cajun to yes, even Mexican.
I wonder if the US could really be said to have a concept of "charter groups" or founding peoples the way Canada does with the English and French. Even though the land which later became the US had non-Anglo, non-native peoples since colonial times such as the Dutch of New Amsterdam, Germans, Cajuns, Spanish speakers in the Southwest, many of these groups assimilated to English eventually, so in that sense Anglos were still the "mainstream".

If a charter group implies a group present during the pioneering or early settlement stage of a country's history, a group with a culture that influences or assimilates other groups rather than their own culture being the one to assimilate away, then African Americans could be considered one too (after all, African American culture, such as music, is successful not just in the US but worldwide). However, with the history of slavery, ancestral languages African Americans spoke and many cultural elements from Africa would have long been forcibly assimilated away since colonial times. So, AA culture was created and became rooted in the New World, though some African aspects from the Old World still survive.

Hispanics such as Mexicans could also arguably be considered a "charter group" having been on what later became US soil for centuries too. Spanish in theory could have been to the US what French is to Canada but many English-speaking Americans still have a tendency to think of it as an "immigrant" language brought recently from another country rather than a language with long continuity to colonial times.

So, it's kind of hard to compare Anglo vs. French in Canada with Anglo vs. (various non-Anglo groups) in the US.
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  #1083  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 2:11 AM
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Religion is not unchangeable. A characteristic of an individual does not have to be unchangeable in order to justify protecting it as a freedom.
I don't necessarily disagree but in the current rights framework in Canada religion is most definitely considered to be unchangeable.
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  #1084  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 5:00 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I don't see the problem with ads in another language. As long as I can access services in English or French I'm fine with it.

If Canada eventually became majority Mandarin, people can just learn Mandarin. It's not like this would happen overnight anyway. It would take many generations. Mandarin classes in grade school would become part of the curriculum well before we reached a tipping point.
Yeah see that's a position I could never be comfortable with.
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  #1085  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 5:15 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
For me, honestly, a blank bus stop wall and a blank bus stop wall with a picture of a pile of carrots and a bunny on it are approximately the exact same thing. It's like I paid to upgrade to an ad-free experience, except it didn't cost me anything
We are talking about Telus. There adds don't communicate any information other than they like animals. Take your pick:
- three rabbits munching on carrots with the caption " the party crashers"
- baby panda and baby prowler bear with the caption "Love it want it"
- two monkeys with the caption "Go Canucks Go"

If a foreigner visited seeing this they would think Telus was a pet store.

Give the add people the creative freedom to do this in what ever language they like. Even Klingon if they so desire.
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  #1086  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2017, 5:47 PM
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The complaint regarding Mandarin-only council meetings is headed to the BC Human Rights Tribunal, at the request of those who complained. A nice twist to those who scream "xenophobia" over this - some of the complainants are ethnically Chinese themselves! Just going to show the importance of having a lingua franca for all residents in BC, and realistically it is English.

http://www.richmond-news.com/news/ch...nal-1.23127239
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  #1087  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2018, 5:28 PM
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A nice twist to those who scream "xenophobia" over this - some of the complainants are ethnically Chinese themselves!

http://www.richmond-news.com/news/ch...nal-1.23127239
The article mentions this actually hurts their case, as the original complaint was filed on the basis of discrimination based on race, yet members of the complainant group are of that same race.
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  #1088  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2018, 6:07 PM
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Driving along 24th Avenue the other day in White Rock and the back end of a public transit bus had a large real estate ad on it and the entire ad was in Mandarin except for the www website address. Mandarin-only on the back of a government funded bus! I was livid but just goes to show that this goes way beyond Richmond.

I am glad to see that some of the conplaintants in the Richmond condo case are ethnic Chinese and I'm not at all surprised. Most Chinese {especially those who are not arrivals from the Mainland or have been here for more than a decade} are furious about this kind of thing. They view themselves as Chinese-Canadians and not Chinese who happen to be living in the Canada at the moment.
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  #1089  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2018, 6:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Driving along 24th Avenue the other day in White Rock and the back end of a public transit bus had a large real estate ad on it and the entire ad was in Mandarin except for the www website address. Mandarin-only on the back of a government funded bus! I was livid but just goes to show that this goes way beyond Richmond.

I am glad to see that some of the conplaintants in the Richmond condo case are ethnic Chinese and I'm not at all surprised. Most Chinese {especially those who are not arrivals from the Mainland or have been here for more than a decade} are furious about this kind of thing. They view themselves as Chinese-Canadians and not Chinese who happen to be living in the Canada at the moment.
Why does the fact that it's a government-funded bus make a difference? It's private advertising? It's not as if the transit operator (a public entity) was using Chinese only to communicate.
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  #1090  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I am glad to see that some of the conplaintants in the Richmond condo case are ethnic Chinese and I'm not at all surprised. Most Chinese {especially those who are not arrivals from the Mainland or have been here for more than a decade} are furious about this kind of thing. They view themselves as Chinese-Canadians and not Chinese who happen to be living in the Canada at the moment.
The majority of Chinese immigrants coming to Canada between the late 80s and mid 90s were from the Democratic British Hong Kong, and many of them were members of the educated and affluent middle and upper class who had high proficiency in English. They were proper British Subjects. The main reason for them to leave Hong Kong and immigrate to countries like the US and Canada at the time was to avoid the repossession by the Communist China in 1997. They were terrified by the prospect of living in the Communist Chinese Hong Kong under the iron fist and iron curtain of the Communist Chinese government. Nobody could forget what happened on June 4th 1989. It was the mentality and political climate back then.

The number of new immigrants from Mainland China since early 2000s has increased dramatically. Many of them have become rich by being in the manufacturing industry which benefits from the open policy of the Chinese government in the late 80s. They've became wealthy enough to actually be able to leave China by immigrating to foreign countries. Despite their wealth, this particular group is mostly under-educated with very low proficiency in English, and many simply don't know English at all. They find the land of Canada attractive and the Canadian life style appealing. However, they have very little intention to affiliate into Canadian society.

Most of them carry on their lives in Canada as if they were still in China. They endeavour to carve out an exclusively Chinese community in various pockets in cities like Vancouver and Toronto, and they are content to live a relatively seclusive Chinese life within the confines of that community. They don't speak English and they don't bother to learn. It obviously means nothing to them for they don't intent to communicate with the English speaking world of Canada. The Chinese only signs are just one of the physical manifestations of that closed isolationist attitude they are so comfortably used to, which some Canadians begin to find problematic, especially those in BC.
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  #1091  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2018, 10:23 PM
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The majority of Chinese immigrants coming to Canada between the late 80s and mid 90s were from the Democratic British Hong Kong, and many of them were members of the educated and affluent middle and upper class who had high proficiency in English. They were proper British Subjects. The main reason for them to leave Hong Kong and immigrate to countries like the US and Canada at the time was to avoid the repossession by the Communist China in 1997. They were terrified by the prospect of living in the Communist Chinese Hong Kong under the iron fist and iron curtain of the Communist Chinese government. Nobody could forget what happened on June 4th 1989. It was the mentality and political climate back then.

The number of new immigrants from Mainland China since early 2000s has increased dramatically. Many of them have become rich by being in the manufacturing industry which benefits from the open policy of the Chinese government in the late 80s. They've became wealthy enough to actually be able to leave China by immigrating to foreign countries. Despite their wealth, this particular group is mostly under-educated with very low proficiency in English, and many simply don't know English at all. They find the land of Canada attractive and the Canadian life style appealing. However, they have very little intention to affiliate into Canadian society.

Most of them carry on their lives in Canada as if they were still in China. They endeavour to carve out an exclusively Chinese community in various pockets in cities like Vancouver and Toronto, and they are content to live a relatively seclusive Chinese life within the confines of that community. They don't speak English and they don't bother to learn. It obviously means nothing to them for they don't intent to communicate with the English speaking world of Canada. The Chinese only signs are just one of the physical manifestations of that closed isolationist attitude they are so comfortably used to, which some Canadians begin to find problematic, especially those in BC.
Having been born and raised in Vancouver, I wouldn't go as far as to say the immigrants from HK in the 80s and 90s had high proficiency in English and were proper British subjects. Yes they had a different kind of culture in some ways to Chinese from the mainland, but most didn't have proficiency in English (our school was about 75% ESL in Richmond) and shared more with Chinese in neighboring mainland Guangdong province, but yes with some British influence. But not much
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  #1092  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Driving along 24th Avenue the other day in White Rock and the back end of a public transit bus had a large real estate ad on it and the entire ad was in Mandarin except for the www website address. Mandarin-only on the back of a government funded bus! I was livid but just goes to show that this goes way beyond Richmond.

I am glad to see that some of the conplaintants in the Richmond condo case are ethnic Chinese and I'm not at all surprised. Most Chinese {especially those who are not arrivals from the Mainland or have been here for more than a decade} are furious about this kind of thing. They view themselves as Chinese-Canadians and not Chinese who happen to be living in the Canada at the moment.
oh, the horror!
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  #1093  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 12:29 AM
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oh, the horror!
I understand not caring about this one's self, but I don't understand not being able to see at all how this may bother other people.
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  #1094  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 1:08 AM
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Why does the fact that it's a government-funded bus make a difference? It's private advertising? It's not as if the transit operator (a public entity) was using Chinese only to communicate.
True, private advertising on public transit can display all kinds of things which doesn't imply that the government funds or supports it.

After all, you see things like this on ads while riding the TTC.

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  #1095  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 4:17 AM
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Some cities will regulate what transit ads are allowed to say. There has been some Charter lawsuits over them; I don't quite remember all the details of the various court decisions, but I do know that some of the more graphic anti-abortion ads have been banned from transit buses and the bans were upheld.
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  #1096  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 4:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
True, private advertising on public transit can display all kinds of things which doesn't imply that the government funds or supports it.

After all, you see things like this on ads while riding the TTC.

The difference with that ad is that everyone can read it.
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  #1097  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 7:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
True, private advertising on public transit can display all kinds of things which doesn't imply that the government funds or supports it.

After all, you see things like this on ads while riding the TTC.

At least that is in an official language. Publicly funded entities like Translink have no business accepting unilingual ads that are not in one of Canada's official languages.
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  #1098  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 7:41 AM
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At least that is in an official language. Publicly funded entities like Translink have no business accepting unilingual ads that are not in one of Canada's official languages.
I would mostly agree with that, but on the other hand, if I was in China and saw an English only ad, I would consider it harmless, but then, would they actually allow it there?
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  #1099  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 7:52 AM
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I would mostly agree with that, but on the other hand, if I was in China and saw an English only ad, I would consider it harmless, but then, would they actually allow it there?
There are, but most kids there learn English similar to how kids in Canada learn French. I don't think anybody cares.
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  #1100  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2018, 8:06 AM
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I would mostly agree with that, but on the other hand, if I was in China and saw an English only ad, I would consider it harmless, but then, would they actually allow it there?
Tons. There are a lot of restaurants with English signs with no Chinese written anywhere.

My opinion on this - if someone wants to spend money on ad space that is privately-owned, and in a language that restricts how many other potential customers can read it, let them. There's no law saying that you have to appease everyone.
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