DENVER - I-70 Relocation

[electricron]

Originally Posted by texcolo

They could sink I-70 and have wide, pedestrian friendly, overpasses like Central Expressway in Dallas.


blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark

Of course the fly in the ointment would be the Platte River.

North Central Expressway previously ran under bridges of cross streets. All they did for the new rebuilt Expressway, besides widening it to 8 lanes, was to keep it below grade between cross street bridges. In the past the Expressway kept returning to grade before going below grade again, like a roller coaster ride.

[PLANSIT]

Couple of tidbits:

• 800 ft is the max for a deck like this. Anything longer requires additional ventilation (think that's been mentioned already).
• $150 million does not include ROW acquisition. (see below)
• Even with this alignment, 46th will remain. Thoughts include using the deck section for part of the road (thus pushing green space/park to the north to be directly adjacent to the school. Rest will probably be frontage type facility.
• Valquez/Steele will lose freeway access.

[PLANSIT]

And the DP has a rendering:

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Couple of tidbits:

• 800 ft is the max for a deck like this. Anything longer requires additional ventilation (think that's been mentioned already).
• $150 million does not include ROW acquisition. (see below)
• Even with this alignment, 46th will remain. Thoughts include using the deck section for part of the road (thus pushing green space/park to the north to be directly adjacent to the school. Rest will probably be frontage type facility.
• Valquez/Steele will lose freeway access.

Exactly as bunt predicted.

I like it. Shame to lose freeway access at Steele. Does that mean no exits between York and Colorado? But with the 46th Avenue frontage road couplet, I think it'll still be plenty easy to navigate through the area.

Vasquez is a problem, though. That's something CDOT will have to resolve because it would shift a lot of truck traffic onto that frontage road between there and York. I like this idea, but if it's going to move the trucks into the neighborhood, I am not sure the benefit is as great as it seems at first glance. The park, for example, would be nigh unusable if all of the trucks from Vasquez are whizzing by on surface streets. But it's surmountable, I think. Maybe that traffic can be shifted to Colorado. Probably would require adding a lane to Colorado (or a ramp of sorts) between I-70 and I-270.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Exactly as bunt predicted.

I like it. Shame to lose freeway access at Steele. Does that mean no exits between York and Colorado? But with the 46th Avenue frontage road couplet, I think it'll still be plenty easy to navigate through the area.

Vasquez is a problem, though. That's something CDOT will have to resolve because it would shift a lot of truck traffic onto that frontage road between there and York. I like this idea, but if it's going to move the trucks into the neighborhood, I am not sure the benefit is as great as it seems at first glance. The park, for example, would be nigh unusable if all of the trucks from Vasquez are whizzing by on surface streets. But it's surmountable, I think. Maybe that traffic can be shifted to Colorado. Probably would require adding a lane to Colorado (or a ramp of sorts) between I-70 and I-270.

Re: the park. There was some talk about pushing WB 46th south onto the deck - bending it around a park that would be shifted north adjacent to the school. Imagine WB 46th dipping south along the deck section.

[The Dirt]

Where is everyone getting the DP renderings?

[Cirrus]

All the cool kids saw it on twitter before it was here.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I don't really see what's so bad about Denver's parks. Some suffer from overuse. (There's just no way to keep grass alive, especially in our climate, with thousands of people on it every day. It's why God invented the urban plaza.) But we just invested untold millions in City Park. Wash Park is getting serious money. Cheesman man is always nice. Not sure what your complaint is. If you're expecting lush thick Kentucky bluegrass, not likely. And if you're worried about trash, well, talk to your neighborhood and the larger community. I don't necessarily think it's the city's responsibility to employ legions of clean up crews because the average Denverite can't be bothered to look for a trash can.

Do you guys go to the parks? Because, I do. Some of them are just not great overall...and who's talking about kentucky bluegrass...I could give a shit about the grass, I'm talking about overall maintenance. Weeds, broken up parking lots, broken up restroom facilities, landscaping that was put in and never cared for so now its dead or filled with weeds. Look people, I understand what Denver's arid climate can do to grass. You dont want to see what my water bill looks like. And, I don't expect that from Denver. What I expect is maintenance. If you plant trees and shrubs that are not native to our climate, then find some type of watering source. If you don't want to water, then plant xeriscaped landscapes...put down some weed blocker and get someone out there every once in a while to clean it up. Why is that I can go to other parks (yes, sorry, suburban) and their landscaping and amenities are cared for. Why is that parkway medians actually have parkway type plantings...xeriscape grasses, daylillies, salvias, etc all that can cope with dry conditions. It boggles my mind that I have to call 311 atleast 3 times a year just to get someone to come out and clean up the Colorado Blvd medians by Cherry Creek. Why is it OK that we let weeds grow to 4 feet tall...in an area that is supposed to be the premier shopping district AND a tourist attraction. Sorry I know you all think it's petty but if I'm noticing it...I'm sure there are many others like me.

Oh here's another case in point. Now I realize that the state is working on this stretch of street in Denver, but Central St and the foot of the Highland Bridge. There's a spot for plants or shrubs right along Central and what is it??? It's weeds!!! OK fine I'm done.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Couple of tidbits:

• 800 ft is the max for a deck like this. Anything longer requires additional ventilation (think that's been mentioned already).
• $150 million does not include ROW acquisition. (see below)
• Even with this alignment, 46th will remain. Thoughts include using the deck section for part of the road (thus pushing green space/park to the north to be directly adjacent to the school. Rest will probably be frontage type facility.
• Valquez/Steele will lose freeway access.

I went to this meeting tonight. There were a lot of angry people. They want a new school, they want Purina gone and theyre not even sure if they still want the viaduct or this new option. I spoke to someone regarding the scrubbers at Purina and theyre still in testing. They think they can reduce the odor by 90-92%. I guess that's better than nothing.

There were people wanting the city to pay for a bridge to go over the UPRR, no regard to costs or even what it might mean for the houses and trailers around there.

By the way, I spoke with two different people and there are only 2 or 3 employees that actually live in the neighborhood. The city did a study last year on this to determine what it would mean to the local employment if the factory was demolished. One of the City employees basically stated the jobs in the plant are highly skilled, then she looked around and shrugged her shoulders and said, "So there ya go!"

I am totally for the trench. I think it would cover the neighborhoods feeling of being disconnected, it would reconstruct some streets around there; albeit, some access would be eliminated. This might help some of the local traffic concerns. Plus, there's no guarantee the old school could be saved, so they may end up with a new school after all.

When I asked if there were any bond funds used to make repairs to the school, one rather irritated neighbor went off on me how Highlands Ranch gets a new railroad crossing and they have to deal with dead people on the tracks, etc. It was an interesting meeting to say the least.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

And the DP has a rendering:

Oh no, that looks like a lot of turf grass to me.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

I went to this meeting tonight. There were a lot of angry people. They want a new school, they want Purina gone and theyre not even sure if they still want the viaduct or this new option. I spoke to someone regarding the scrubbers at Purina and theyre still in testing. They think they can reduce the odor by 90-92%. I guess that's better than nothing.

There were people wanting the city to pay for a bridge to go over the UPRR, no regard to costs or even what it might mean for the houses and trailers around there.

Really? Can we just sink the highway and be done with it. Better yet, I think I've come up with a great place to relocate the Stock Show.

By the way, I spoke with two different people and there are only 2 or 3 employees that actually live in the neighborhood. The city did a study last year on this to determine what it would mean to the local employment if the factory was demolished. One of the City employees basically stated the jobs in the plant are highly skilled, then she looked around and shrugged her shoulders and said, "So there ya go!"

So, the folks around there are pretty much screwed until the neighborhood appreciates in value through gentrification and they can sell out. Yep, no future.

Interestingly, this is a good example of showing how manufacturing in the US has become so highly skilled that it's no longer a stepping stone for the poor into the middle class.

I am totally for the trench. I think it would cover the neighborhoods feeling of being disconnected, it would reconstruct some streets around there; albeit, some access would be eliminated. This might help some of the local traffic concerns. Plus, there's no guarantee the old school could be saved, so they may end up with a new school after all.

When I asked if there were any bond funds used to make repairs to the school, one rather irritated neighbor went off on me how Highlands Ranch gets a new railroad crossing and they have to deal with dead people on the tracks, etc. It was an interesting meeting to say the least.

All I'm hearing is entitlement mentality over and over. That's not going to generate any sympathy from me.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

they want Purina gone

...

I spoke to someone regarding the scrubbers at Purina and theyre still in testing. They think they can reduce the odor by 90-92%. I guess that's better than nothing.

Yes, because we select our transportation alternatives based on which buildings we want to eliminate...

Yes, CDOT regulates air quality... either you clean up the air above-and-beyond anything the actual air quality regulators require of you, or else we condemn your factory... "for the highway"...

Maybe we can coerce the EPA to build us a train up I-70 west somehow. You know, since they've decided to trade roles with the DOT.

I still like the trench, even if the neighborhood is impossible to please.

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

What I expect is maintenance. If you plant trees and shrubs that are not native to our climate, then find some type of watering source. If you don't want to water, then plant xeriscaped landscapes...put down some weed blocker and get someone out there every once in a while to clean it up. Why is that I can go to other parks (yes, sorry, suburban) and their landscaping and amenities are cared for. Why is that parkway medians actually have parkway type plantings...xeriscape grasses, daylillies, salvias, etc all that can cope with dry conditions. It boggles my mind that I have to call 311 atleast 3 times a year just to get someone to come out and clean up the Colorado Blvd medians by Cherry Creek. Why is it OK that we let weeds grow to 4 feet tall...in an area that is supposed to be the premier shopping district AND a tourist attraction. Sorry I know you all think it's petty but if I'm noticing it...I'm sure there are many others like me.

Oh here's another case in point. Now I realize that the state is working on this stretch of street in Denver, but Central St and the foot of the Highland Bridge. There's a spot for plants or shrubs right along Central and what is it??? It's weeds!!! OK fine I'm done.

I know just the place for you... in Parker. Let me know and I can put you in touch with the builder.

Seriously though, where on Colorado Blvd. are there landscaped medians? At least, big enough ones to sustain any sort of vegetation. (FYI - 8-foot medians, unless they are raised, will never survive here long-term. Too much crap from the road, and too little water - bad combination.) Not to mention, you need to clarify whether you're talking about areas of City vs. CDOT responsibility, public works vs. parks responsibility, etc. That matters.

Really odd that you would choose Denver's parkways to criticize... there is no suburban jurisdiction I can think of with parkways like Denver's. They're an absolute gem for the city. I'd give an organ to live on 7th or Forest Pkwys... dandelions or no dandelions.

By the way, what's so bad about weeds? Do they really look any different from most xeroscape? Also, weed barrier fabric ages - so that's one reason you might not see weeds in newer areas... give them 20 or 30 years. Go look at some mid-80s subdivisions in Aurora and tell me how their landscaping has held up. I can't think of many places - a few wealthier areas with well-funded special districts or HOAs doing the work, but that's it - where people are actually paid to go out and weed. Chemical sprays, sure, but that is often not popular in neighborhoods/communities.

[glowrock]

With the neighborhood's reaction to CDOT's sunken I-70 proposal, with the extreme entitlement mentality that seems to exist there (though I know for sure that the AVERAGE person doesn't have the same extreme views as most of those who go to those meetings do), I say we build a 20 lane monstrosity in the same location. Hell, maybe we could double-deck it! And DOUBLE the size of the Purina plant!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[bunt_q]

Think of all the jobs that would create.

[SnyderBock]

Instead of double decking the highway, or putting an 800 foot long park over part of it. How about trenching it and then covering it with a deck the entire length and then building the proposed Boulevard over it. You know, the Boulevard that would have been built there, if I-70 had been relocated to the north. So just trench I-70 and put that same Boulevard, over it.

[Wizened Variations]

If CDOT behaved in the current environment the way that small to medium sized business must, the solution taken would be the 'cheapest.'

Of course, 'cheapest' when dealing with public contruction entities, such as CDOT, DIA, or RTD, does not mean strictly bottom line. Rather, 'cheapest' means a combination of how many dollars and how little political risk.*

If money were no object and local citizens were guaranteed to shut up and quietly watch their wide screen TVs, then the trench would be a great idea. If money were no object, and, prominent power players had bought up key plots on a new I-70 route in the I-270 vacinity, that would be proposed.

In any case, millions will be spent designing, marketing proposals, etc., thereby keeping large staffs actively employed.

Cheapest real world solution? Block a few on/off ramps east of I-25, repair what you have, repaint the viaduct to brighten it's under girth, and, improve I-270. For political purposes, work to get the rendering plant out of there, and gussy up some local parks.

*money gained by politicians defines 'political risk' in large part. The more money politicians get, the less 'political risk.' If locals can agitate enough to cause monied interests to get worried, then 'political risk' increases.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I know just the place for you... in Parker. Let me know and I can put you in touch with the builder.

Seriously though, where on Colorado Blvd. are there landscaped medians? At least, big enough ones to sustain any sort of vegetation. (FYI - 8-foot medians, unless they are raised, will never survive here long-term. Too much crap from the road, and too little water - bad combination.) Not to mention, you need to clarify whether you're talking about areas of City vs. CDOT responsibility, public works vs. parks responsibility, etc. That matters.

Really odd that you would choose Denver's parkways to criticize... there is no suburban jurisdiction I can think of with parkways like Denver's. They're an absolute gem for the city. I'd give an organ to live on 7th or Forest Pkwys... dandelions or no dandelions.

By the way, what's so bad about weeds? Do they really look any different from most xeroscape? Also, weed barrier fabric ages - so that's one reason you might not see weeds in newer areas... give them 20 or 30 years. Go look at some mid-80s subdivisions in Aurora and tell me how their landscaping has held up. I can't think of many places - a few wealthier areas with well-funded special districts or HOAs doing the work, but that's it - where people are actually paid to go out and weed. Chemical sprays, sure, but that is often not popular in neighborhoods/communities.

Who the hell wants to live in Parker. Maybe that's where YOU live, since you don't even know Colorado Blvd. Do you ever leave your own little world???

There are tons of medians all along Colorado Blvd...hence why it's called a Boulevard. You know I would go ahead and supply you with a google map image of Colorado Blvd for you...but I'm not going to bother, you should be able to find that yourself. I am particularly talking about the areas around entry into Cherry Creek. Currently they are devoid of any life except some trees...and even some of them don't look so good. It is Denver's responsibility because I've called 311 several times to report that they need attention.

If the city cannot maintain a simple median, then they should just rip it up and concrete over it. But, when weeds are 4 feet tall, how is that acceptable? And no weeds are not like xeriscape, they're noxious and many are not native to Denver.

And the reason why the Colorado Blvd medians annoy me so, is because they are located at the entry points to one of our Tourist attractions...I mean shit, we can't throw some weed barrier down or use some weed killer? Over time the weeds will also damage the curbs and cause them to crack and crumble...so now we start to look more and more like Detroit. I know the city means well, but come on...lets get some resolution here.

And I know all about parks vs public works vs natural areas vs what CDOT controls etc etc. I've talked to several city personnel over the years...so thanks for the tip.

Not all of Denver's parkways are in bad shape. You should get out more. And I'm done arguing this...if my perception is shitty of this area then others probably feel the same way. Meh, who cares about weeds and what visitors think of our city. We will just hit the pot pipe later and it will all be ok.

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Who the hell wants to live in Parker. Maybe that's where YOU live, since you don't even know Colorado Blvd. Do you ever leave your own little world???

There are tons of medians all along Colorado Blvd...hence why it's called a Boulevard. You know I would go ahead and supply you with a google map image of Colorado Blvd for you...but I'm not going to bother, you should be able to find that yourself. I am particularly talking about the areas around entry into Cherry Creek. Currently they are devoid of any life except some trees...and even some of them don't look so good. It is Denver's responsibility because I've called 311 several times to report that they need attention.

If the city cannot maintain a simple median, then they should just rip it up and concrete over it. But, when weeds are 4 feet tall, how is that acceptable? And no weeds are not like xeriscape, they're noxious and many are not native to Denver.

And the reason why the Colorado Blvd medians annoy me so, is because they are located at the entry points to one of our Tourist attractions...I mean shit, we can't throw some weed barrier down or use some weed killer? Over time the weeds will also damage the curbs and cause them to crack and crumble...so now we start to look more and more like Detroit. I know the city means well, but come on...lets get some resolution here.

And I know all about parks vs public works vs natural areas vs what CDOT controls etc etc. I've talked to several city personnel over the years...so thanks for the tip.

Not all of Denver's parkways are in bad shape. You should get out more. And I'm done arguing this...if my perception is shitty of this area then others probably feel the same way. Meh, who cares about weeds and what visitors think of our city. We will just hit the pot pipe later and it will all be ok.

Hyperbole much?
Colorado's medians pale in comparison to 6th's, 7th's or 17th's. What little vegetation is on Colorado, between 1st and 7th and then scattered between 14th and 24th, is mostly a single row of trees. This is probably due to Colorado's median being around 8' and 6th, 7ths or 17th's being closer to 25'.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Who the hell wants to live in Parker. Maybe that's where YOU live, since you don't even know Colorado Blvd. Do you ever leave your own little world???

There are tons of medians all along Colorado Blvd...hence why it's called a Boulevard. You know I would go ahead and supply you with a google map image of Colorado Blvd for you...but I'm not going to bother, you should be able to find that yourself. I am particularly talking about the areas around entry into Cherry Creek. Currently they are devoid of any life except some trees...and even some of them don't look so good. It is Denver's responsibility because I've called 311 several times to report that they need attention.

If the city cannot maintain a simple median, then they should just rip it up and concrete over it. But, when weeds are 4 feet tall, how is that acceptable? And no weeds are not like xeriscape, they're noxious and many are not native to Denver.

And the reason why the Colorado Blvd medians annoy me so, is because they are located at the entry points to one of our Tourist attractions...I mean shit, we can't throw some weed barrier down or use some weed killer? Over time the weeds will also damage the curbs and cause them to crack and crumble...so now we start to look more and more like Detroit. I know the city means well, but come on...lets get some resolution here.

And I know all about parks vs public works vs natural areas vs what CDOT controls etc etc. I've talked to several city personnel over the years...so thanks for the tip.

Not all of Denver's parkways are in bad shape. You should get out more. And I'm done arguing this...if my perception is shitty of this area then others probably feel the same way.

I hear you DownHome: this city can always do a better job at a little house cleaning. All cities can..

In fact; I would love to see the city sponsor some type of organization that could develop some synergy between the people who need work (everyone begging for change on the side of the road) with a non-profit entity that could provide the means to make money, such as lawn mowers, weed-wackers, paint brushes, garbage bags for clean-up, etc). There is plenty of graffiti that can be painted over, weeds to be pulled, riverbanks to be cleaned, and garbage to be collected.

Assuming this non-profit could provide the job-training and a little managerial over-sight, they could provide compensation for the work done and perhaps meals and dibs on housing. People who desperately need money would have a means to get it while the city is putting restless hands to good use. I'd much rather donate my money to something like this, which offers a dignified way for people to earn money, than simply give it out my car window to people sitting there all day.

[texcolo]

I don't think the Purina Plant will go, and if it does it won't go quietly. I helped work on the plant expansion a few years back.