Halifax Central Library | 27 m | 6 fl | Completed

[phrenic]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Chapters - now that would be an excellent idea!

Obviously the potential impact of a Chapter's on The Bookroom isn't an issue anymore , but I still would be a little concerned about other mom and pop bookstores in the area.

[hfx_chris]

With any larger chain store, there's always going to be smaller mom and pop stores effected...

[phrenic]

I know, I know. I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate. I just feel for the little guy.

An H&M would be cool in that spot too. I'm also still hoping for a hardware store somewhere along spring garden or barrington.

[hfx_chris]

They could put a Home Hardware along there. Not the library site obviously, but somewhere a HH would fit in quite well me thinks.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Chapters - now that would be an excellent idea!

Not a chance -- you have to remember that Indigo/Chapters is considered evil amonst the library-going, CBC Radio-listening intelligentsia of the south end and SGR, who only buy their books at places like Frog Hollow and Bookmark. They would never permit the evil Chapters to move onto that street and threaten their local favorites.

[someone123]

I really disagree with the idea that letting in chains always hurts local businesses (not suggesting people here believe this, but I hear it from time to time in Halifax). There are gaps in the retail available downtown and if they were filled it would become a much more viable destination for shopping for everybody.

The downtown area (SGR or Barrington) needs something like a Chapters/Indigo, H&M/Gap, Future Shop/Best Buy, and urban format Home Depot or maybe Canadian Tire (Home Depot is better). If those popped up suddenly the need to go out to Bayers Lake or Dartmouth Crossing would drop significantly for those living in the city.

Barrington specifically would benefit enormously from a couple of big anchor retailers in spaces like the Roy Building (or the one used by the province for meeting rooms).

[phrenic]

I don't mean to give off the impression that I am against chain stores in the downtown--I just had a special appreciation for the Bookroom before it closed and would have shuttered at the thought of a large chain bookstore opening near it. Although in the end that wouldn't have mattered anyway.

IMO, the SP library, the SP/Queen St. corner, and/or the ground floor of the Roy Building are PERFECT locations for urban-format chain stores, such as the ones Someone123 has mentioned (I'd kill for an Urban Outfitters store myself). The downtown/south end is especially lacking a hardware store.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Not a chance -- you have to remember that Indigo/Chapters is considered evil amonst the library-going, CBC Radio-listening intelligentsia of the south end and SGR, who only buy their books at places like Frog Hollow and Bookmark. They would never permit the evil Chapters to move onto that street and threaten their local favorites.

First off, I'm a library-going CBC radio listening... person (I don't really fit the rest of your description), and I kind of resent part of what you said. Only part of, because I only fit part of your description. But those people you speak of can continue shopping at Frog Hollow, or navigating the maze of shelves in JW Doull, but I wouldn't mind killing some time and picking up a few books in a Chapters on SGR, and I'm sure a lot of people would join me.

Originally Posted by someone123

Barrington specifically would benefit enormously from a couple of big anchor retailers in spaces like the Roy Building (or the one used by the province for meeting rooms).

As I'm sure you know, the Johnston building which houses the province's board rooms (and other offices) used to be an Eatons; would be nice to have a department store back in it, since it would be not only an ideal fit, but the building just looks like a department store.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

First off, I'm a library-going CBC radio listening... person (I don't really fit the rest of your description), and I kind of resent part of what you said. Only part of, because I only fit part of your description. But those people you speak of can continue shopping at Frog Hollow, or navigating the maze of shelves in JW Doull, but I wouldn't mind killing some time and picking up a few books in a Chapters on SGR, and I'm sure a lot of people would join me.

I was only being half-serious with my "intelligentsia" comment, but I can guarantee you that if Indigo announced tomorrow that they were taking over the library space once the new one is ready, there would be deafening howls of protest from a substantial number of people in this town. That's all I'm saying.

But when (not if) that did happen, why would they come when they aren't welcomed?

[hfx_chris]

And I disagree with the idea that there would be howls of protest...

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I was only being half-serious with my "intelligentsia" comment, but I can guarantee you that if Indigo announced tomorrow that they were taking over the library space once the new one is ready, there would be deafening howls of protest from a substantial number of people in this town. That's all I'm saying.

But when (not if) that did happen, why would they come when they aren't welcomed?

I personally think almost nobody would care. just mho.

[worldlyhaligonian]

It would be a bit pointless to put a bookstore in there. Firstly, the new library will be across the block. Secondly, there are already bookstores in the area that are quite niche and fit well with the shopping. Clothing and/or a tech. store would help fill out the selection of stores along the street. I think a hardware store would be out of place and would work better in another part of the downtown.

[worldlyhaligonian]

If anything, the library should operate a bookstore/office supply location on the SGR side of the building.

[reddog794]

A new Library is key for a city that is trying to bring people back into it's DT. I do not believe that this should be a black check project, but the surrounding neighbourhood does need the amenities that a new modern library would bring.

Why a wish list? Why not look at what other cities, in different parts of the world, in our situation, are doing. Then measure the cost and effects? Lets look outside our borders on how to improve our core infrastructures.

Ideally 30% of the new Library would be a "learning commons" as Dal puts it, as part of the cafe. We want this to be a destination, and not some place kids have to go to for a book report. We have to look at this, not in the traditional mind set of what a library is, but of what it's turning into. This is our chance to break the mold, and have a library, that isn't just a place full of books, but something vibrant, and dynamic.

[Keith P.]

If anyone caught the Council meeting tonight, there was a perfect example of how our Council remains utterly dysfunctional and ineffective. I caught it part-way through, but apparently there was an item where staff were asking them for approval to proceed on a detailed plan for the new library, including funding options. What I saw was a free-for-all, including Gloria McCluskey saying the new library should be in Dartmouth, Andrew Younger wanting the facade of the existing library building used on the new, David Hendsbee wanting a detailed parking strategy for the area, various members wanting a firm cost number RIGHT NOW, and all sorts of thr usual parochial bullshit that had nothing to do with the question on the floor. Meanwhile, our esteemed mayor just let it all happen. Ridiculous.

Can we have a do-over on the election?

[Dmajackson]

^You should of seen the ammendments. Holy crap, I've never seen so many ammendments shot down so easily ever. One was about not selling, therefore not making money off they sell, the existing building, and another about a library tax.

One thing is for sure. Mr. Kelly must hate Mr. Murphy and Hendsbee for constantly ignoring him. The only sensible ones there were Uteck and Sloane. They'd both get up say something really sensible in a really pissed off voice and then sit back down.

In the period of an hour and a half i was watching they debated about tax-reform, libraries, money process, the waterside centre, ect. Basically put everything but cats and dogs.

I got so sick of the library bulls**t i turned off the T.V. All I know is something about the Greenway Trail got aprroved. As long as theres no animal bylaws and Commonwealth Games issues the city might survive the next four years

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

^You should of seen the ammendments. Holy crap, I've never seen so many ammendments shot down so easily ever. One was about not selling, therefore not making money off they sell, the existing building, and another about a library tax.

One thing is for sure. Mr. Kelly must hate Mr. Murphy and Hendsbee for constantly ignoring him. The only sensible ones there were Uteck and Sloane. They'd both get up say something really sensible in a really pissed off voice and then sit back down.

In the period of an hour and a half i was watching they debated about tax-reform, libraries, money process, the waterside centre, ect. Basically put everything but cats and dogs.

I got so sick of the library bulls**t i turned off the T.V. All I know is something about the Greenway Trail got aprroved. As long as theres no animal bylaws and Commonwealth Games issues the city might survive the next four years

Hahah yup, council working hard at wasting time again. Even debating an issue in which they already voted down, the waterside centre. What was that all about?

[worldlyhaligonian]

I couldn't believe how bad that was. Grow a pair Mayor Kelly.

[Dmajackson]

Doesn't quite give it the complete chaos that it was last night but heres an article about the "debate" last night:

Council argues over library

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Wed. Nov 19 - 5:32 AM
A new library for downtown Halifax continues to generate lively debate at city hall.

The price tag for the project has climbed to $45 million from $26 million over the 12 years it’s been discussed and many councillors were keen Tuesday night to put the brakes on what they say is a library too rich for the municipality.

"Shake your head! We cannot afford it!" Coun. Gloria McCluskey (Dartmouth Centre) urged her colleagues, referring to the building proposed for the corner of Queen Street and Spring Garden Road.

She suggested a branch library, instead of a flagship site, should be constructed to serve that area of the municipality.

"Why couldn’t the Alderney Gate library (in Dartmouth) be the central library?"

Coun. Steve Streatch (Eastern Shore-Musquodoboit Valley) said that while he’s coming around to the idea of a new central library, he doesn’t know if the timing is right.

"In today’s uncertain financial climate, I’m just not sure that going down the route with so many questions is prudent."

Councillors were asked Tuesday night to approve the development of different library funding scenarios. As well, staffers were looking for $100,000 to engage outside help for tasks like appraising and maximizing the use of the current library site on the corner of Spring Garden Road and Brunswick Street, and exploring various models for a new library.

But some of the ideas that staffers thought warranted a further look — like implementing a new library tax or selling the old library — rubbed a few councillors the wrong way.

Coun. Andrew Younger (East Dartmouth-The Lakes) said he’d prefer to see the city hold on to the building, built in 1951 as a memorial to the casualties of the world wars, and look into leasing it.

"I wonder if anyone can give me another example, anywhere in North America, where a war memorial was sold?"

Judith Hare, the chief administrative officer of the regional library board, said she has discussed the idea with the federal Veterans Affairs Department.

"The library is a living memorial . . . and that can be recognized in a new building as well," she said.

Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) said the city has spent millions maintaining the present library site.

"We’re basically ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater if we look at selling (it)."

But Phil Townsend, the city’s manager of capital projects, said the building would likely need millions of dollars in upgrades.

"Although it’s only one year older than me . . . I’m in much better shape than that building is right now," the 56-year-old said.

Some councillors said their colleagues were putting up roadblocks too early in the process.

"We’re supposed to look at our options," Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) said when a few voiced concerns over staff’s preliminary idea to impose a library tax.

Coun. Linda Mosher (Purcells Cove-Armdale) urged her colleagues to keep an open mind and do something to benefit the downtown.

The funding scenarios report, which councillors approved by a 17-4 margin, must be completed in time for council’s spring debates on its 2009-10 budget

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Gloria McCluskey saying the new library should be in Dartmouth

Some people are NIMBYs. Sometimes I think Gloria is a NIYBY - not in your backyard. I usually agree with her, but that's just a dumb thing to say. Replace the Halifax library with a new one in Dartmouth. C'mon Gloria, we have a nice library in Alderney Gate already!