NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[drumz0rz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Extremely unlikely. 60 Wall has large floorplates, ideal for financial users, as well as a huge trading floor. It's tailor-made for an investment bank (was built as JP Morgan world HQ).

It's also an A+ building, with really nice fitness center, conference facilities, and the like.

the lower trading floors at 60 Wall are huge but the rest of the tower really isn't that big. The core takes up so much space that the perimeter really only had room for 2 rows of cubes and an exterior office. It could definitely be converted to residential, with 10 or so apartments per floor. It is one of my favorite buildings. The fact that it has direct access to the subway made commuting in and out of it a breeze.

[Nomadd22]

The stories of how much foundation rework Ingel's would take were all over the place. Was there even a consensus? Being able to get Foster's building up a year sooner might be a factor.

[jayden]

I really don't believe restructuring of the foundation would have been that complicated since they were so apt to change the design. And even with the design change, I'm sure Silverstein urged Ingles to keep that in mind.

Frankly, I could care less which design they choose. Just get the tenant signed and build the damn thing. So sick of seeing fences and cranes on the site.

[NOPA]

Originally Posted by jayden

Frankly, I could care less which design they choose. Just get the tenant signed and build the damn thing. So sick of seeing fences and cranes on the site.

Yes same. The corner of Church and Vesey is a nightmare. Just build something - but make sure it looks really really good.

[fleonzo]

Did anyone see this?

https://newyorkyimby.com/2017/09/200...or-tenant.html

[Nomadd22]

Yimby like to pass speculation off as informed.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Nomadd22

Yimby like to pass speculation off as informed.

YIMBY has a great track record of being 100% correct. He released renderings of Nordstrom two years before Extell did.

[JSsocal]

Yimby is pretty opinionated. Nikolai is really gunning for the foster design. He's written several posts about his preference for that tower. This article is only his speculation.

[NYguy]

Again, as far as this tower being designed for a financial tenant, it always has been, and still is. Silverstein could have scrapped this design after the FOX deal fell through, but he didn't. This is the one that has been marketed, and is the one being built as far as we know.

Of course, Silverstein Properties could surprise everyone with yet another new design, but I don't see that happening.

Originally Posted by NYguy

It was designed for that. But then again, the Ingels design was as well. The Ingels design just had improvements that would be attractive to other tenants.

2 WTC would be just a few short blocks from 60 Wall.

Ingels designed for financial firms as well.

[nylkoorB]

Here's an article and video from Fox dated Friday 9/8 about the rebuilding of the World Trade Center complex. There's an excerpt from the article that I found interesting:

http://www.fox5ny.com/news/rebuildin...nter-continues

And 2 World Trade, a 2.8-million-square-foot office space, larger than 3WTC, will come last.

"I hope when we're all done here in 2022 at the conclusion of… tower two that people say we've done a good job," Silverstein said.

This was from Friday. And this is the first I'm hearing of a 2022 completion date. Thoughts?

[jayden]

Well, 2022 makes sense considering if all goes well and they land a tenant soon construction on Tower 2 will be well underway in 2018.

[NYguy]

About 3 minutes in....Larry seems confident...


• Video Link

[jayden]

Sounds promising. We'll see.

Really enjoyed that interview. Very candid.

I really hope Silverstein is somehow able to live to see it completed.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by NYguy

About 3 minutes in....Larry seems confident...


• Video Link

I don't know him. He could be a terrible man for all I know, but I really hope he gets to see this tower built out before he passes...

In any event, perhaps some of you could explain the possible reasons why the WTC has been relatively slow to land tenants versus Hudson Yards. Rents are cheaper, transit options are far better (PATH + direct access from the E/R/W + Fulton Street) and there is a great deal of appetite for Class A, trophy towers. Is it residual stigma from 9/11? If crowds at the Oculus and the shops at the World Financial Center (I shall not call it Brookfield Place) are any indication, the fear of that day is quite diminished.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Submariner

I don't know him. He could be a terrible man for all I know, but I really hope he gets to see this tower built out before he passes...

In any event, perhaps some of you could explain the possible reasons why the WTC has been relatively slow to land tenants versus Hudson Yards. Rents are cheaper, transit options are far better (PATH + direct access from the E/R/W + Fulton Street) and there is a great deal of appetite for Class A, trophy towers. Is it residual stigma from 9/11? If crowds at the Oculus and the shops at the World Financial Center (I shall not call it Brookfield Place) are any indication, the fear of that day is quite diminished.

Probably because it's Lower Manhattan, which is slightly at a competitive disadvantage to Midtown. It also doesn't help that the WTC site is a big tourist destination, and you need to deal with a billion different authorities to get anything accomplished.

And I would disagree that transit options are "far better"; in fact I would argue that Midtown has "far better" transit options. It's accessible from every corner of the tri-state metro, and Lower Manhattan isn't. Penn Station, GCT and the PABT are in Midtown. The busiest subway hubs are in Midtown.

That said, the WTC is still a very desirable site, and I'm hopeful that Deutsche takes the space. They're already in Lower Manhattan, so they probably like the area. And the competitive gap between Midtown and Lower Manhattan is closing, as more workplace talent lives in places like Brooklyn as opposed to Westchester and Connecticut. Long-term I think rents will even out, and the areas will be roughly equally competitive.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Submariner

I don't know him. He could be a terrible man for all I know, but I really hope he gets to see this tower built out before he passes...

In any event, perhaps some of you could explain the possible reasons why the WTC has been relatively slow to land tenants versus Hudson Yards. Rents are cheaper, transit options are far better (PATH + direct access from the E/R/W + Fulton Street) and there is a great deal of appetite for Class A, trophy towers. Is it residual stigma from 9/11? If crowds at the Oculus and the shops at the World Financial Center (I shall not call it Brookfield Place) are any indication, the fear of that day is quite diminished.

I can give you one primary reason, and it's always been the case, and part of the reason the original WTC was built in the first place - most companies prefer to be in Midtown (which is why I'm hopeful with Deutsche here, since they are just a few blocks away).

This same exact tower could have been proposed in the Hudson Yards, and it would likely have found a tenant by now. Even 15 Penn Plaza, which is a more complicated site, and would have required much demolition had a tenant signed before the financial crisis. When the original WTC complex was built, it took decades to fully lease that amount of space Downtown. It's going to take time to lease all of this space here, especially given the options in Midtown.

And then there's the complication with Related's towers mostly being not leased, but purchased space. I don't think Silverstein would have that option here, he himself leases the space from the Port Authority in another complicated matter.

But there has been sort of a reverse exodus, which is one of the reasons Silverstein shifted the gears of his tenant search...


http://nypost.com/2017/08/01/more-me...downtown-digs/

More media companies are fleeing Midtown for techy downtown digs

By Steve Cuozzo
August 1, 2017

Macmillan Publishers has joined the great southern migration of media companies from Midtown and Midtown South.

As we first reported on Monday, the global trade-book publisher signed a jumbo lease for 261,000 square feet at Silverstein Properties’ 120 Broadway, in the heart of a district once exclusively known for finance.

The firm will move into floors 22 to 26 at its new home in early 2019 from the Flatiron Building and a few other locations.

There are many reasons for tenants, especially in the TAMI (technology, advertising, media and information) sector, to head to the FiDi/World Trade Center area — among them, lower rents and proximity to young creative types who live in the area and in nearby Brooklyn and New Jersey.

But Larry Silverstein singled out one particular motivation:

“I think it’s an opportunity to move from buildings that have zero technology to buildings that have significant technology,” he told us.

He added, “120 Broadway is typical of that, and so is Four World Trade Center.”

Silverstein spent tens of millions of dollars to modernize 120 Broadway, a 1915-vintage tower with 1.8 million square feet.

“We continuously upgraded 120 Broadway to keep it totally competitive,” Silverstein said. His 4 WTC will soon be home to music-sharing giant Spotify, which will move there from Sixth Avenue in Flatiron.

Since 2005, some 739 companies have moved to lower Manhattan, according to the Downtown Alliance.

Of that total, 419 were in TAMI or related fields, comprising 59 percent of all space leased in the past dozen years.

The media cavalcade includes Condé Nast, Time Inc., the Associated Press, GroupM, MediaMath, Droga5 and SportsNet New York.

Downtown Alliance President Jessica Lappin said Macmillan’s move was “more evidence that Lower Manhattan is once again the center of the publishing world” as it was in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

[nylkoorB]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And I would disagree that transit options are "far better"; in fact I would argue that Midtown has "far better" transit options. It's accessible from every corner of the tri-state metro, and Lower Manhattan isn't. Penn Station, GCT and the PABT are in Midtown. The busiest subway hubs are in Midtown.

It's true that Midtown has the largest regional transit hubs (mainly for suburbanites), and no doubt HY will benefit from proximity to NJT and LIRR. But I think where the WTC beats out HY is with better urban rapid transit. The WTC has direct access to the 1*,2,3,4,5,A,C,E,J/Z,R,W and PATH trains. All directly inside it or attached to it. You don't even have to go outside to get to/from any of these trains to the WTC buildings.
HY by comparison only has direct access to the 7. Of course you can say that you can walk a few avenues over to HY from the ACE, and even the 123, but WTC clearly has the edge with subway acces. Yes, most of the largest subway hubs are in Midtown, but most of them are nowhere near HY. Fulton Center is one of the largest subway hubs in the entire city and its actually connected to the inside of the WTC.
Silverstein even said in the video posted above by NYGuy that he's looking to attract workers and young talent from urban areas like Downtown and Brooklyn, instead of suburbanites in Connecticut.

*When the destroyed 1 train station is rebuilt

[JMKeynes]

Traveling downtown on the 4/5 from GCT is not easy. The platforms and.cars at GCT are often packed in the morn. Also, the cars often move at a snail's pace. Lastly, homeless people frequently have "medical emergencies" on the cars, which results in them sitting on the tracks for 20 minutes.

None of these conditions exist on the 7 from GCT.

[nylkoorB]

Traveling anywhere on the 4/5 during rush hour is not easy. The Lexington Avenue Line is the busiest in the city and has a daily ridership of about 1.3 Million people! But I'm saying that the WTC has the advantage for urban commuters, not suburban commuters coming from Grand Central or Penn. That is clearly in Hudson Yard's favor.

And unfortunately, ALL NYC subway trains see those same problems. The 7 train is not immune from delays, homeless people, sick passengers, etc. If it were, I'm pretty sure everyone in NYC would move to Queens.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by nylkoorB

Traveling anywhere on the 4/5 during rush hour is not easy. The Lexington Avenue Line is the busiest in the city and has a daily ridership of about 1.3 Million people! But I'm saying that the WTC has the advantage for urban commuters, not suburban commuters coming from Grand Central or Penn. That is clearly in Hudson Yard's favor.

And unfortunately, ALL NYC subway trains see those same problems. The 7 train is not immune from delays, homeless people, sick passengers, etc. If it were, I'm pretty sure everyone in NYC would move to Queens.

I've taken the 7 from GCT to the Yards many times. It's way better than taking the 4/5 downtown.

I love downtown and vastly prefer it to Midtown and the HY, despite the commute. Nonetheless, the commute to the HY is way better -- especially if you just had a 50 min train ride on the LIRR, MN, or NJT.