The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Crowd size is only indicative of so much. If we were going by raw attendance then leagues like the MLB and NHL are ahead of the NFL. Going by average attendance means sports like F1 are at the top. There's a balance between weighting overall appeal and physical revenue at stadiums. Sure, CFL teams might outdraw 25% of EPL teams in any given year, but that doesn't take into account merchandising, TV, and other revenue streams.

TFC currently draws higher than Stoke and Crystal Palace but that has no bearing on them being more popular worldwide or being a better team. There are more variables at play than just crowd sizes. It's a good indication, maybe, but not definitive.

I know. But I still think that in the case of the NFL, the (extreme) level of fandom there is more evenly spread out across all of the league's clubs, than what you'd find in any football (soccer) league in Europe.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

For the most part they follow their local teams. Cheering for a team in another country over your own would indeed be strange.

Some Europeans I know do cheer for teams in other countries. For example, friends of ours live in France and their two boys are Real Madrid fans - and there is nothing Spanish whatsoever about this family. But they're also fans of the local French first division team in their area. They don't ignore the national league in the country they live in.

But now that I think of it, the majority of Europeans I know are first and foremost fans of teams in their country - usually of the area they live in, or if they've moved for work, of the region that their family is originally from.

If they are big football fans, they'll watch English, German or Spanish soccer in addition to their home leagues.

But without having a vested interest in it. Kind of like how I watch the NFL.

It's akin to watching American presidential elections for me. It's often good for entertainment value, but I don't really feel directly involved in what's going on.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That's a huge part of football's appeal to me... your team plays once a week. It's not a big time commitment. I enjoy hockey but I don't think I could ever be one of those guys who watches their team play 80+ games a year. For the most part I watch snippets of Jets games on TV, a period here, a period there.

I find that's part of the appeal of rugby (15's) for me. I like the few days post game for the analysis, then the buildup through the week to game day. I get that same effect as a player as well as fan.

7's is good for getting people into the game without learning many rules. I suppose rugby league (13 man version) is good for that too, but I still find it's not as satisfying as 15's. But as mentioned, people who are introduced to the shortened versions may end up preferring those.

I think 15's will eventually get a decent following once a league gets off the ground. Major League Rugby is supposed to be launching next year, and there are already rumours about an Ontario team for 2019. https://www.thestar.com/sports/2017/...by-outfit.html

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I can definitely see that.

If a person has even the slightest interest in gridiron football, the NFL is like crack cocaïne.

It's the most slickly packaged sports entertainemnt product the world has ever seen.

Oh yea. So much so that many will make sure they tune into the broadcast intro to Monday Night Football to see the performances of Carrie Underwood (previously Faith Hill). Those segments themselves offer great entertainment value. In the NFL, it's so much more than just the game.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Oh yea. So much so that many will make sure they tune into the broadcast intro to Monday Night Football to see the performances of Carrie Underwood (previously Faith Hill). Those segments themselves offer great entertainment value. In the NFL, it's so much more than just the game.

Last night was a perfect example: a double header on a Monday night. 6 to 9 pm EDT for one game and 9 to midnight EDT for the other.

How many people on the west coast left work early to catch the first game at 3 pm PDT?

Wanna bet it's way more than we'd expect?

[lrt's friend]

If I watch one NFL game a year, they are lucky. I have absolutely no reason to be interested or excited by the games and I am bored silly by the style and pace of the game.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I know. But I still think that in the case of the NFL, the (extreme) level of fandom there is more evenly spread out across all of the league's clubs, than what you'd find in any football (soccer) league in Europe.

I'll agree to disagree and say that they're both fairly similar depending on the country. England, Germany, Italy, Spain fandom in soccer are almost certainly up there with the NFL in the US. Countries like France, Holland, etc. are further behind.

I mean, most footy derbies have to be played before a certain hour of the day to prevent (how you put it) extreme levels of fandom. I don't think Cowboys/Redskins has to be played before 2PM on Thanksgiving to prevent fights and disputes between fans.

[Acajack]

I've been there at European city derby matches. The ultra hardcore fans that sit behind the goals are more intense than anything we have in North America. But that is not the entire city or even the fan base.

Except maybe for the City vs United derby game, regular season Bears games stop Chicago in its tracks more than similar soccer games monopolize attention in Manchester.

[Denscity]

The Vancouver Canadians baseball team just won their league championship last nite! Pretty sure the game was sold out.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Denscity

The Vancouver Canadians baseball team just won their league championship last nite! Pretty sure the game was sold out.

I wonder if they'll ever start a major expansion of the park, as sell-outs are very common I hear. I know they've done a little here and there, but you'd think with the growth they've had it might come up at some point.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I wonder if they'll ever start a major expansion of the park, as sell-outs are very common I hear. I know they've done a little here and there, but you'd think with the growth they've had it might come up at some point.

You probably don't want to push it too far since situations where minor league baseball teams are hot tickets tend to be short lived, at least in Canada. The Winnipeg Goldeyes went through a phase where they were selling out every game for the first few years after Shaw Park was built, to the point where they expanded a couple of times from about 4,500 to around 7,500. Now there are simply too many seats and the games never sell out.

I seem to recall the Ottawa Lynx and Edmonton Trappers went through similar phases...

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

You probably don't want to push it too far since situations where minor league baseball teams are hot tickets tend to be short lived, at least in Canada. The Winnipeg Goldeyes went through a phase where they were selling out every game for the first few years after Shaw Park was built, to the point where they expanded a couple of times from about 4,500 to around 7,500. Now there are simply too many seats and the games never sell out.

I seem to recall the Ottawa Lynx and Edmonton Trappers went through similar phases...

From what I understand it's been going on for quite a few years now, but you're right, definitely don't want to overextend yourself. I personally don't care, I've never even been to a game. Just curious if it's something that's been kicked around at all. Even just adding another stand to the right side of home to make it symmetrical.


http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show....php?p=7506598

[elly63]

Originally Posted by elly63

but mainstream sports are going to have to change to stay relevant. Because of all the news about CTE and concussions, the CFL has initiatives to get flag football really going in schools. Parents are now conditioned to keep their kids away from contact sports. The CFL for sure and likely the NFL are looking for "transitional" sports to get kids interested in playing like games and later transition them when they are older into full contact.

CFL, NFL launch joint flag football initiative
CFL.ca Staff September 15 2017

TORONTO — The Canadian Football League (CFL) and National Football League (NFL) launched a flag football program that will engage hundreds of kids across the country on Friday. The program for Canadian youth will culminate in a national flag football tournament during the week of the 105th Grey Cup presented by Shaw in Ottawa, with the winner travelling to Pro Bowl week in Orlando, FL to participate in the NFL FLAG Championships.

The CFL/NFL Flag Football initiative will teach kids the fundamentals of the game and promote physical activity. Alongside skills development, participants will receive lessons in teamwork, sportsmanship, and other lessons that help them succeed both on and off the field.

“This flag football tournament series is an exciting example of our continued commitment to grow the game,” said Glen Johnson, CFL Senior Vice President of Football. “Developing programming for youth football with our partners at the NFL promotes a healthy lifestyle and the continued success of our sport in a fun and safe way.”

“We are excited to partner with the CFL on youth initiatives in Canada,” added David Thomson, Managing Director, NFL Canada. “Both leagues share the goal of strengthening the interest, awareness and participation in football among Canadians. This is a great opportunity to showcase the talent, dedication and achievements of local flag leagues during the CFL’s Grey Cup week in Ottawa and the NFL’s Pro Bowl week in Orlando, Florida.”

Coed teams of 11-12-year old athletes will take part in nine regional tournaments to be held in CFL cities throughout the fall, coming together for a national tournament during Grey Cup week in the nation’s capital. The winner of this tournament will compete in the NFL FLAG Championships during Pro Bowl week next January in Orlando, FL.

Each regional tournament will feature eight teams with a maximum 10 players each. Participants will meet current CFL players, interact with CFL cheer teams and mascots, and enjoy football-themed games and activities alongside their matches in each CFL market. Each regional tournament’s victorious team will win a trip to Ottawa to play in the CFL/NFL Flag Football Championship during Grey Cup Week.
Here is the list of the upcoming regional tournaments:

Edmonton: Saturday, September 23rd at The Brick Field at Commonwealth Stadium
BC: Saturday, September 30th at W.J. Mouat Secondary in Abbotsford, BC
Montreal: Saturday, October 7th at Collège André-Grasset
Saskatchewan: Sunday, October 8th at Mosaic Stadium
Ottawa: Sunday, October 15th at TD Place Stadium
Calgary: Sunday, October 15th at Shouldice Athletic Park
Hamilton: Sunday, October 22nd at Tim Hortons Field
Winnipeg: Sunday, October 22nd at Investors Group Field
Toronto: Saturday, October 28th at Birchmount Stadium

National tournament:

Tuesday, November 21st at the University of Ottawa (Gee-Gees Field)

Participants for the program have been selected through CFL member teams and local organizations. More information can be found at CFL.ca/flag. Both the CFL and the NFL will continue to invest in youth football programming and promote increased physical activity.

[elly63]

Crowd was up in Montreal for the game against the REDBLACKS who, inexplicably, are a poor draw in the league. I actually don't have proof of that but I see it posted in places.

Not sure why crowd was up (new coach?) but it would be good if Ottawa and Montreal could form a rivalry like they had in the old days IIRC.

Attendance: 22,596
97% capacity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Crowd was up in Montreal for the game against the REDBLACKS who, inexplicably, are a poor draw in the league. I actually don't have proof of that but I see it posted in places.

Not sure why crowd was up (new coach?) but it would be good if Ottawa and Montreal could form a rivalry like they had in the old days IIRC.

Attendance: 22,596
97% capacity

Well, the Alouettes were in the Quebec media a lot during the last week, even if it was because of all the turmoil.

As we say in French: parlez-en en bien, parlez-en en mal, mais... parlez-en!

[JHikka]

Sept 12-18, 2017
TORONTO/BALTIMORE............SEPT 11-13..MLB....ROGERS...........TORONTO.....29,723 (89,170 TOTAL)
CALGARY/BC.........................SEPT 16.......CFL.....MCMAHON........CALGARY......28,176
HAMILTON/SASKATCHEWAN....SEPT 15.......CFL....TIM HORTONS...HAMILTON....23,604
MONTREAL/OTTAWA...............SEPT 17.......CFL....MOLSON...........MONTREAL....22,596
MONTREAL/MINNESOTA..........SEPT 16.......MLS....SAPUTO...........MONTREAL....20,801

VANCOUVER/COLUMBUS.........SEPT 16....MLS.....BC PLACE.....VANCOUVER.....20,592
VANCOUVER/MINNESOTA........SEPT 13....MLS.....BC PLACE.....VANCOUVER.....17,368
TORONTO/EDMONTON............SEPT 16....CFL......BMO............TORONTO.........13,182
TORONTO/DONCASTER...........SEPT 16....RFL.....,LAMPORT.....TORONTO.........8,456
EDMONTON/INDIANAPOLIS.....SEPT 17....NASL......CLARKE.......EDMONTON.......3,097

Notes:

• Jays come back down to Earth;
• Alouettes put up season-high after two consecutive decade-lows;
• Whitecaps double, the midweek was a season-low;
• Wolfpack end their season with a season-high, promotion to RFL2 for next season

Originally Posted by elly63

Crowd was up in Montreal for the game against the REDBLACKS who, inexplicably, are a poor draw in the league. I actually don't have proof of that but I see it posted in places.

Not sure why crowd was up (new coach?)

It was indeed odd. Seeing a season-high crowd after the two previous lows was a bit unexpected. I haven't seen any photos to compare crowd-size to see if it was a giveaway situation or not.

According to cfldb the lowest drawing away team in the league is Calgary (23.3K), highest is Sask (28.7K). Montreal is second lowest with Toronto third lowest.

[mistercorporate]

^^
The Wolfpack story has been a revelation, I have got to check out some games next season. Are their games even viewable online or on TV?

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by elly63

Crowd was up in Montreal for the game against the REDBLACKS who, inexplicably, are a poor draw in the league. I actually don't have proof of that but I see it posted in places.

Not sure why crowd was up (new coach?) but it would be good if Ottawa and Montreal could form a rivalry like they had in the old days IIRC.

Attendance: 22,596
97% capacity

From what I saw on Twitter and in the stands there was a lot of RedBlacks fans there, but also being a nice Sunny day in Montreal (some pseudo tailgating available) vs. the last 2 games were Thursday nights which are usually tough nights to get a good crowd.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It was indeed odd. Seeing a season-high crowd after the two previous lows was a bit unexpected. I haven't seen any photos to compare crowd-size to see if it was a giveaway situation or not.

How can you tell if it is a "giveaway" situation from a photo? Why would they suddenly start to give away tickets? I believe Montreal has some of the most expensive tickets in the league. It doesn't make sense that they would reverse policy and start that kind of thing late in the season when I don't believe they have done anything like that (on a large scale) in recent memory.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

From what I saw on Twitter and in the stands there was a lot of RedBlacks fans there, but also being a nice Sunny day in Montreal (some pseudo tailgating available) vs. the last 2 games were Thursday nights which are usually tough nights to get a good crowd.

That's where you see problems with the marriage to TSN. TSN loves TNF because they can get a decent rating on a Thursday but it is hurting the league.

Commish Ambrosie has made all the right steps so far but he really has to rein in TSN somewhat and also figure out a way to get games back on the full CTV network, before TSN kills the Golden Goose.