HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Downtown & City of Portland


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #581  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2014, 6:13 PM
PDXDENSITY PDXDENSITY is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland
Posts: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by babs View Post
This issue has never been whether the MC is a great building or not. I think it's a great piece of architecture. This issue is finding a viable reuse of the building. It's not economically viable as a sports arena right across from another sports arena. It will either always struggle or compete in a way that hurts both buildings. I'm not in the camp that it needs to come down but I do believe that a new use needs to be found for it. I really don't know what that is. Maybe you float a steel structure inside and make that offices and keep the outside as is. Somewhere I saw someone suggest that it could make a really cool ice center to perhaps replace the rink at Lloyd Center. Some creativity is needed here.
It could become an indoor-outdoor park?! Make dirt bike amenities and skateboard amenities inside and climbing walls... Develop the land around it. It will forever stand and be widely used...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #582  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2014, 8:31 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,389
Registration for the VMC tour open on Event Brite.
__________________
"Maybe to an architect, they might look suspicious, but to me, they just look like rocks"

www.twitter.com/maccoinnich
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #583  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2014, 9:26 PM
urbanlife's Avatar
urbanlife urbanlife is offline
A before E
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 11,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxlexus View Post
That was the old Thunderbird Motor Inn. I believe it later became a Red Lion proprty before it was demolished about 15 years ago.
That is cool, I never knew that. I wonder who owns the land now and why there hasn't been any new development there. It seems like it would be a great location for a series of residential towers that provide easy access to downtown.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #584  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2014, 9:36 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,389
I was curious about the same questions, and looked it up. The property is owned by Aegan Corp, which seems to be a company linked to Paul Allen. Even though it is zoned Central Commercial, the site has a scenic overlay, which limits the height to which it can be developed.
__________________
"Maybe to an architect, they might look suspicious, but to me, they just look like rocks"

www.twitter.com/maccoinnich
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #585  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2014, 9:42 PM
i2m i2m is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 141
The riverfront property west of the colliseum is owned by Vulcan- Paul Allens development company. Over the years there have been studies to develop the property as offices and other mixed uses.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #586  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2014, 9:42 PM
eric cantona's Avatar
eric cantona eric cantona is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife View Post
That is cool, I never knew that. I wonder who owns the land now and why there hasn't been any new development there. It seems like it would be a great location for a series of residential towers that provide easy access to downtown.
it was also the site of an epic party for the 2000 new years. I believe that was the last time the hotel was actually used before demolition.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #587  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2014, 9:52 PM
PDXDENSITY PDXDENSITY is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland
Posts: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by i2m View Post
The riverfront property west of the colliseum is owned by Vulcan- Paul Allens development company. Over the years there have been studies to develop the property as offices and other mixed uses.
It would be neat if that actually happened. Despite the height restrictions there, there could be some cool riverfront infill.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #588  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2015, 4:31 AM
puerco puerco is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 231
Smile Calaroga Terrace

Quote:
Originally Posted by scleeb View Post
I believe that is the Calaroga Terrace Retirement Building.
I would love to see if anyone could find renderings of the Coliseum Gardens from the mid-60s. Calaroga Terrace was the only building built from the ambitious project very similar to Portland Center.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #589  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 7:22 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,389
Quote:
Grand visions for Veterans Memorial Coliseum don't pencil out



No matter how much money Portland officials sink into Veterans Memorial Coliseum, the aging city-owned venue looks to be a money-loser.

That's the takeaway from a new consulting report that evaluated five renovation options, ranging in cost from $35.1 million for basic upgrades to $142.9 million to convert the arena into a track facility.

Those renovations would do little to attract new visitors or events, however, and they're unlikely to generate enough new revenue to cover debt payments tied to the expensive upgrades.

As an alternative, city officials could tear down the arena for an estimated $14 million, according to documents obtained by The Oregonian/OregonLive through the state's public records law.
...continues at the Oregonian.
__________________
"Maybe to an architect, they might look suspicious, but to me, they just look like rocks"

www.twitter.com/maccoinnich
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #590  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 8:29 PM
innovativethinking innovativethinking is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 591
Every major city would have flatten this piece of junk money pit years ago. They might as well keep it for a new arenas place until the NBA decides in 5 to 10 years the Moda Center is obsolete; when it is approaching the same age as the Coliseum was when the Rose Garden was built..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #591  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 9:52 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
Submarine de Nucléar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,477
Here's a good takeaway from the article:

Current net loss for the city: $55,000/year (less than the cost of new speedbumps on my street).

Essential repairs and replacement

Cost: $35.1 million
Includes: New plumbing, refurbished seating and concourse, renovated bathrooms, a new roof and scoreboard, access improvements for people with disabilities
Annual events: 116
Annual attendance/paid: 371,200/173,900
Annual operating income: loss of $46,000
Annual income (ticket taxes/parking/capital reserve): loss of $100,000

-------------------

Typical of American cities is the deferred maintenance of infrastructure and assets while we let them slide into disrepair. Note also that the facility is managed by Paul Allen's Rip City Management - they have no incentive to actually schedule money-making events at MC, since they own the Moda Center next door... there is such a conflict of interest here its not even funny.

The winterhawks were going to spend their own money renovating the building in 2012, but because of the scandal, the city turned the money down.

So yeah, if you turn down money and let your buildings fall apart over the course of 50 years, of course it will be costly to renovate them into working order! Did the Federal Government just knock down the Edith Green – Wendell Wyatt Federal Building? Nope! They spent $150 million gutting it down and renovating it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #592  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 3:24 AM
urbanlife's Avatar
urbanlife urbanlife is offline
A before E
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 11,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by innovativethinking View Post
Every major city would have flatten this piece of junk money pit years ago. They might as well keep it for a new arenas place until the NBA decides in 5 to 10 years the Moda Center is obsolete; when it is approaching the same age as the Coliseum was when the Rose Garden was built..
Yeah, that is my thought as well, the moment Allen threatens to move the Blazers to Seattle if he doesn't get a new arena is the moment bulldozers would show up at the Coliseum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #593  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 8:07 PM
BlazerBeav BlazerBeav is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 39
There is simply no need for this building. Winterhawk games are more enjoyable in the Moda Center anyway. Tear it down.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #594  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 11:16 PM
58rhodes 58rhodes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazerBeav View Post
There is simply no need for this building. Winterhawk games are more enjoyable in the Moda Center anyway. Tear it down.
and put up what???

seriously it will be a vacant lot for years

nobody wants anything to do with that property--case closed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #595  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 11:34 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58rhodes View Post
nobody wants anything to do with that property--case closed.
Developers would have a field day if the coliseum was gone and the city opened up the land for redevelopment. Nobody wants anything to do with the coliseum, remove that, you've got desirable land.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #596  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 2:31 AM
2oh1's Avatar
2oh1 2oh1 is offline
9-7-2oh1-!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: downtown Portland
Posts: 2,471
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife View Post
the moment Allen threatens to move the Blazers to Seattle if he doesn't get a new arena is the moment bulldozers would show up at the Coliseum.
My theory is that people will be arguing about how the coliseum is too important to tear down, and there will be failed attempts after failed attempts to find a purpose for the building until The Big One eventually strikes, at which point, it'll be rubble. And then, finally, the land can be put to use again.

Seriously... since the Blazers moved out two decades ago... how much money has been spent on attempts to repurpose Memorial Coliseum? Remember the plans years ago for an entertainment district?

I'm convinced this building is so mired in politics that people will be fighting to save it until an earthquake brings it down.

My fear about the Blazers is that if they someday start to talk about leaving, they'll get a better offer from somewhere else and leave, at which point, we'd be looking to repurpose the Moda Center too.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #597  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 3:22 AM
innovativethinking innovativethinking is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post
My theory is that people will be arguing about how the coliseum is too important to tear down, and there will be failed attempts after failed attempts to find a purpose for the building until The Big One eventually strikes, at which point, it'll be rubble. And then, finally, the land can be put to use again.

Seriously... since the Blazers moved out two decades ago... how much money has been spent on attempts to repurpose Memorial Coliseum? Remember the plans years ago for an entertainment district?

I'm convinced this building is so mired in politics that people will be fighting to save it until an earthquake brings it down.

My fear about the Blazers is that if they someday start to talk about leaving, they'll get a better offer from somewhere else and leave, at which point, we'd be looking to repurpose the Moda Center too.
The blazers are a staple to this town. Rip city. Blazer mania. It's an identity that positively recognizes a city on a national and the way the game is going, world stage.

The city of Portland I'm sure will know all that and eventually work it out. I think the site is just stalling till the Rose Garden becomes obsolete. Which isn't much longer at most 5 years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #598  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 6:00 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by innovativethinking View Post
I think the site is just stalling till the Rose Garden becomes obsolete. Which isn't much longer at most 5 years.
The Rose Garden/Moda is a fantastic facility. Blazers have invested tens of millions of dollars the past few years making dramatic improvements, as well as bringing in local food operators. Right now the trend in NBA arenas is to build seating for 17,500 to 19,000 spectators. The Moda originally held 21,000+ fans, which has been reduced over the years. There's absolutely no reason to build a new arena nor worry about them leaving as their iron-clad agreement with Portland requires them to stay in the city through 2023.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #599  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 6:14 PM
innovativethinking innovativethinking is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
The Rose Garden/Moda is a fantastic facility. Blazers have invested tens of millions of dollars the past few years making dramatic improvements, as well as bringing in local food operators. Right now the trend in NBA arenas is to build seating for 17,500 to 19,000 spectators. The Moda originally held 21,000+ fans, which has been reduced over the years. There's absolutely no reason to build a new arena nor worry about them leaving as their iron-clad agreement with Portland requires them to stay in the city through 2023.
Well that site is stalling till 2023 then. It'll be nearly 30 years old by then. Which is ancient in arena terms..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #600  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 7:41 PM
eric cantona's Avatar
eric cantona eric cantona is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by innovativethinking View Post
Well that site is stalling till 2023 then. It'll be nearly 30 years old by then. Which is ancient in arena terms..
I will side with the historians and architects who understand design quality, and what that means to our collective culture. personally, I think the MC is a gorgeous building and needs to be preserved. but I think we all need to listen to the experts about what should be preserved.

arguing about the lifespan of the Moda Center and when it will need to be replaced disgusts me on two primary levels:
  1. the building and site design are horrific from an urban design standpoint. it could be anywhere, and has all the appearance of a suburban development. gross. if anything should be demolished it should be that. but...
  1. that said, from a sustainability standpoint replacing it with something else because it's "out of date" is a symptom of why we, as a society, find ourselves in a predicament over too much carbon in the atmosphere (even if it is a shitty suburbanesque development). don't like something? tear it down and build something better. don't like the city? build big-ass freeways and drive your fat ass all over the place.

fuck that shit. time to face the music, America. just because you don't like something is not a reason to tear it down. repurpose, restore, re-something this and other built structures. there is value embedded in the MC. it's time to bring it out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Downtown & City of Portland
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:12 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.