Cities that "undershot"

[Lear]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

Having the 4th largest city proper GDP for the 2nd most populated city proper is not that great.

Depends on the perspective.

If you consider the different eras from Berlin during 1939-2010 where several internal and external factors led to physical destruction, separation, isolation, ideological mismanagement and economic break-down, the current state of Berlin can be seen as pretty remarkable.

Berlin is still standing. Now as consolidated capital of Germany and a major EU metropolis. The last 5 years around 50.000 jobs were added every year to the city´s economy. Its a hip magnet once again.

[Minato Ku]

A bit off topic, do you have the total number of jobs in Berlin?

[Lear]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

A bit off topic, do you have the total number of jobs in Berlin?

2016
Number of employees (incl. part time and minor jobs): 1.890.000
New jobs: + 46.200 (+2,5%)
Unemployment rate: 9,8%
Number of unemployed people in December: 172.604
Number of official job offers in Berlin- Brandenburg (metro region): 46.000

2017
Number of employees : 1.950.100
New jobs: + 60.100 (+3,0)
Unemployment rate: 9,0 % (lowest since 1991)

[Crawford]

Berlin is only the fourth largest metropolitan economy in Germany. Ruhr, Munich and Frankfurt have larger economies, and Stuttgart, Hamburg and Cologne aren't far behind.

Berlin is actually the poorest major German metro, which may be unique among major world capitals (which almost always tend to be much richer than national urban norms; even the Ottawas and Brasilias of the world).

But it's true that Berlin was built to massive scale, probably unprecedented in Europe. The city really is built to a spatial/monumental standard reflective of WW2 dreams of Thousand Year Empire. And Berlin has performed well in recent years; it's just that it's so far behind the major metros of the former West.

[hipster duck]

^My impression is that almost everything that's monumental in scale - including the street layouts - was built during Prussian rule or the 1871-1918 German empire. Not very much of monumental Berlin is from the Third Reich. There is also some monumentalism from the early days of the DDR.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

^My impression is that almost everything that's monumental in scale - including the street layouts - was built during Prussian rule or the 1871-1918 German empire. Not very much of monumental Berlin is from the Third Reich. There is also some monumentalism from the early days of the DDR.

Correct, the Third Reich didn't implement much urban planning. But the current scale is reflective of such aspirations.

[the urban politician]

That's where branding comes in.

Berlin seems to have much more name recognition than any other German city. I imagine that if you asked most people from the Western Hemisphere to name a single German City, Berlin would get the most hits

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Berlin seems to have much more name recognition than any other German city. I imagine that if you asked most people from the Western Hemisphere to name a single German City, Berlin would get the most hits

Oh, definitely. But if you asked Germans to name the most important German city, you would get a variety of responses.

[The North One]

Berlin and Frankfurt are actually neck and neck in economy, with Frankfurt being slightly higher. But Berlin has over 400,000 more people.

[Minato Ku]

Berlin has about the same number of job that the City of Paris (1.97 million in 2016).

It's going to overtake the City of Paris in number of jobs.
Obviously as the City of Paris is only covering 40 sq mi (compared with 344 sq mi for Berlin) and development is limited due to strict urban rules when Berlin has still of lot of space even in its core.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

Berlin has about the same number of job that the City of Paris (1.97 million in 2016).

Berlin proper is gigantic and even has farmland and forests. The Île-de-France would be a better comparison.

[Lear]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Berlin is only the fourth largest metropolitan economy in Germany. Ruhr, Munich and Frankfurt have larger economies, and Stuttgart, Hamburg and Cologne aren't far behind.

All these western German cities had enjoyed non-interupted capitalistic environments from 1950-2018. BTW, Ruhr is rather a lose agglomeration of independent midsize cities. The region is now stagnating for around 10 years and is even losing population. (its rather the Detroit of Germany)

Originally Posted by Crawford

And Berlin has performed well in recent years; it's just that it's so far behind the major metros of the former West.

The per capita GDP of Berlin is about 120% of the EU average, which is globally one of the richest regions. Its true that Berlin is only slightly under par with the German average income/ productivity but hey, Germany is one of the most productive countries.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

^My impression is that almost everything that's monumental in scale - including the street layouts - was built during Prussian rule or the 1871-1918 German empire. Not very much of monumental Berlin is from the Third Reich. There is also some monumentalism from the early days of the DDR.

Correct. Third Reich era (1933-1945) didn't´t add anything to the city layout and only few surviving buildings are left. The administrative area of Berlin, which is basically the same today, was formed in 1920 ! Fun fact: At this point Berlin was the worlds largest city after L.A. (area wise) and the second largest city in the world after NYC (population wise). Of course London and few other agglomerations were more populated.

[The North One]

Your Detroit analogy is ironic, since Detroit's economy is far larger than Berlin's even with a million less people...

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by The North One

Your Detroit analogy is ironic, since Detroit's economy is far larger than Berlin's even with a million less people...

They underwent like half a century of a Stalinist Soviet system, while your town only went through the car industry and their lobby, and of course the usual US racial divide that's trolling the entire internet.

Fact is the former turned out even worse than what ruined your city.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

A war ship full of munitions collided with another and the result was the largest man-made explosion prior to the nuclear bomb. The ship explosion was so massive that it killed 1600 people INSTANTLY, destroyed every single building within 800 meters, and was so powerful that it actually created it`s own tsunami in the port. A total of 3500 died in the first day and 9000 were injured. The port was wiped out and with it all industry leading to mass unemployment as 12,000 people instantly had their work places destroyed. You have heard of the fairly recent explosion of 'the mother of all bombs'?...……..well the Halifax explosion was a staggering 270 X more powerful with an explosion force of 3000 TONS of TNT.

It is understandable that people focus on the loss of life but you are right that the industrial impact was huge.

There were a bunch of large factories that were heavily damaged and destroyed and many ended up closing or going bankrupt and were bought out Ontario and Quebec firms for pennies on the dollar. For many years there was an old 1 storey brick warehouse in North End Halifax that was just the remains of part of one of those old factories that employed maybe 1,000 people or more.

An example factory:


https://oldnorthend.wordpress.com/20...ington-street/

This one was 3-4 km away from "ground zero" and got off relatively easy:


This is a sore spot for Maritimers because there is little appreciation of the region's industrial history. Most Canadians think that the Maritimes were just full of fishermen when they actually had a heavily industrialized economy even back when they joined Canada in the 1860's. Canada was not particularly friendly to this industry, and like you pointed out the most conspicuous aid after the explosion came from the US, not Canada.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by mousquet

They underwent like half a century of a Stalinist Soviet system, while your town only went through the car industry and their lobby, and of course the usual US racial divide that's trolling the entire internet.

Fact is the former turned out even worse than what ruined your city.

I'm stating simple economic facts, the subject is that Berlin is poor for being a European capital. Don't give a shit what ruined what, why are you even replying to me? (I fully expect some nonsensical racist/homophobic rant written in French in three.. two.. one...)

[Lear]

Originally Posted by The North One

I'm stating simple economic facts, the subject is that Berlin is poor for being a European capital.

Economy is one aspect of a city. Berlin is not (yet) the seat of major companies that produce high income jobs.

But the city infrastructure, be it security- / social- / cultural- or scientific- institutions is more developed than in most metro regions in Europe or the US.

Thats why the city ranks very high on global quality of life surveys, pulls a lot of talent, and has a lot of potential for the upcoming years.

Why creative Brits love Berlin - Guardian

There are as many interpretations of “living the dream” as there are people fantasising about a fresh start. For the British academic Vishal Vora, taking his children to kindergarten on his cargo bike felt like the realisation of the Berlin life he’d imagined one drizzly day in his cramped flat in Hackney, east London. “Pedalling through the Brandenburg Gate, breeze ruffling my beard, living the hipster dad dream,” he smiles.

[Minato Ku]

Staying in Central Berlin, you will see a city with modern infrastructures, full of modern office with many cranes everywhere. A growing working city. (Quite similar to Downtown DC in its urban form).
You will have a hard time believing that it's is one of the less productive Capital cities in Western Europe because it's economic activities is more visible than in most Europe capitals.

Just by looking it superficially, you could easily believe that Berlin is a city with a bigger economy than Paris.
A modern looking glassy building looks more like an office buildings than an old building.

• Video Link

Originally Posted by Crawford

Berlin proper is gigantic and even has farmland and forests. The Île-de-France would be a better comparison.

Yes I know but data despite the small area used for Paris are not in defavor of Paris.

The City of Paris despite it's tiny land size and the fact it cover a small part of its metropolitan area is the second city proper in EU in term of GDP and jobs while it's only in the fifth position if you count the population.
And that not counting the vast suburbs around it and the fact that its most visible business district (La Defense) is located in suburbs.

Even in the United States, I think that only New York and Los Angeles have more jobs than Paris inside their city limits.
I think that very few people imagine that there are almost 2 million jobs inside the inner city of Paris. Those jobs are not small jobs because in France due to its strong levy on job for social contribution, you need a high productivity to create jobs.
This explains in part the high unemployement rate (especially among youth). Low productivity jobs are too expensive. Fewer sellers by shops, fewer servers by restaurants... than what you would find in the UK.

[Busy Bee]

It's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel to name a midwestern city, as there are many.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Peoria, IL though. 100 years ago it had all the signs of being a much larger city, both economically and population, than it ended up being. It was a major railroad center, river transportation center, manufacturing center, oasis of vice and entertainment that was at least partially fueled by an enormous brewing and distilling industry that almost entirely disappeared due to Prohibition. It's not a particularly "urban" city in the sense of density or land-use, more a Madison than a Milwaukee, but on a different historical trajectory it probably would have been a substantially larger and more important city.

[dc_denizen]

Norfolk and Hampton roads, va