Is South Florida part of the Caribbean and/or Latin America?

[jd3189]

An offshoot discussion from my other thread about the NE and SE. Apparently, Miami and the rest of South Florida can't be considered part of the South. However, it can't be considered Northeastern/ New York because the culture is still different from what you would experience in NYC. I mentioned that it's likely that the area may be a continuation or blurred area between the South and the Caribbean at least these days.


Reason I see it this way is because of the high Cuban/Central/South American population as well as the high Afro-Caribbean population. Only other area in the US like this is NYC, but NYC also has other influences that makes it more worldly for lack of a better word. There's a lot of Northerners down here, but they barely have influence in Dade or Broward these days. Even Palm Beach is becoming more Caribbean. I think one of the new area judges is Haitian.


But yeah, what do you guys think?

[Sun Belt]

No. It's a part of the southeastern United States and is only connected by land to one region of the U.S. and that's the southeast.

[Crawford]

Why can't South Florida be South Florida? Why does it have to arbitrarily be grouped with other geographies?

[ThePhun1]

Is Buffalo a part of the Northeast or Ontario?

[hauntedheadnc]

This whole, "such-and-such place" (usually either South Florida or any large and/or busy, educated, diverse and thriving city) couldn't possibly ever be part of the South! Why, gracious no -- people in such-and-such place wear shoes and have most of their teeth! It could never be part of the South!

It's a very silly game to play because if you want to go that route, then we get to make a strong argument that Charlotte is not part of the South because half of Buffalo has relocated there, and it was founded by people from Pennsylvania. Charlotte therefore, is obviously part of Upstate New York, unless of course the Pennsylvanians want to claim it.

Here is a simple quiz to help confused Floridians determine whether or not they and their state are Southern:

1. Is your state physically attached to the contiguous United States?
2. Does your state share a border with Georgia?
3. Does your state continue to observe Confederate Memorial Day?
4. Did your state have no fewer than three ships in the Navy of the Confederacy named after it?
5. Assuming your city is Miami, did your city feature a Confederate monument on the grounds of the county courthouse until it was relocated to the main city cemetery, where it stands to this day?

If the answer to all of these questions is yes, then congratulations! You're Southern! Your state is Southern and so is your city, unless you just can't accept this; should this be the case we will have to immediately launch an inquiry into how, exactly, one cedes the city of Charlotte, NC to Erie County, NY. It has also come to my attention that several other cities in the region have been founded by people from other states, and it also bears mentioning that my own city was coaxed to bloom in the 1920's by a cadre of Florida developers and a millionaire from St. Louis. Someone will have to let me know whether I'm actually Floridian or Missourian.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Last I checked, South Florida was part of the State of Florida which is one of the 50 States of the USA.

A region doesn't have to be all apple pies and baseball to be a part of the United States.

[initiald]

It's "America's Latin American city" or "America's Caribbean city." Once you get south of I-4 then culturally you're not longer in "the South" kind of how New Orleans has a separate identity.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Why can't South Florida be South Florida? Why does it have to arbitrarily be grouped with other geographies?

I have to agree with this. South FL, in its own way, is pretty unique, even unique from the rest of FL (which I'd agree does have that "southern feel"). Yes, geographically, it's in the south, but...

The area doesn't share the South's history (e.g., how many Confederate leaders did the region produce? How many plantations can be found in South FL?). Rather, S. FL was developed and populated by Northerners (e.g., Henry Flagler).

It's population is markedly different from the rest of the South, which is dominated by English and Scotch Irish ethnicities along with African Americans; and, that until very recently, saw very little migration and almost no immigration. South FL is a strange mix of locals (many 2nd and 3rd generation Northern transplants), recent Northern transplants, and Hispanics. You don't even hear a Southern drawl down there.

S. FL has a vastly different culture. It probably has the lowest number of Baptists and Southern Baptists in the south and the highest % of Catholics and Jews. S. FL isn't known for southern delicacies (fried chicken, grits, etc.). The region is highly urbanized and has an almost Northern-like pace.

Even the climate is different from the rest of the South.

However, the population is too varied to seriously be considered an extension of the Northeast. I myself have made that claim, but it's an exaggeration. Even if S. FL was mostly Northern transplants (it's not), the built environment, history, climate, and culture are too different.

I think it's time to accept South Florida as a unique region. Not the South, not the Caribbean or Latin America, and not the Northeast.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Why can't South Florida be South Florida? Why does it have to arbitrarily be grouped with other geographies?

Why should South Florida, which is only West Palm Beach to Miami, get their own region?

Why not San Francisco? It's very different from Fresno. Different people, different income levels, full of Asian immigrants etc.
*S.F. has more Asians in the city limits than Miami has hispanics. [290,000 vs. 280,000]

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by McBane

I have to agree with this. South FL, in its own way, is pretty unique, even unique from the rest of FL (which I'd agree does have that "southern feel"). Yes, geographically, it's in the south, but...

The area doesn't share the South's history (e.g., how many Confederate leaders did the region produce? How many plantations can be found in South FL?). Rather, S. FL was developed and populated by Northerners (e.g., Henry Flagler).

It's population is markedly different from the rest of the South, which is dominated by English and Scotch Irish ethnicities along with African Americans; and, that until very recently, saw very little migration and almost no immigration. South FL is a strange mix of locals (many 2nd and 3rd generation Northern transplants), recent Northern transplants, and Hispanics. You don't even hear a Southern drawl down there.

S. FL has a vastly different culture. It probably has the lowest number of Baptists and Southern Baptists in the south and the highest % of Catholics and Jews. S. FL isn't known for southern delicacies (fried chicken, grits, etc.). The region is highly urbanized and has an almost Northern-like pace.

Even the climate is different from the rest of the South.

However, the population is too varied to seriously be considered an extension of the Northeast. I myself have made that claim, but it's an exaggeration. Even if S. FL was mostly Northern transplants (it's not), the built environment, history, climate, and culture are too different.

I think it's time to accept South Florida as a unique region. Not the South, not the Caribbean or Latin America, and not the Northeast.

Why go through all this rigamarole just to avoid admitting that the South is an extremely large and extremely diverse region that includes all sorts of ecosystems, climates, subcultures, and offers an incredible diversity of urban experiences?

Speaking of climate specifically though, so what if Miami's climate is not comparable to that of Richmond, VA? Here in Asheville, MO the climate bears very little resemblance to that of Montgomery, AL; New Orleans, LA; or even that of Charlotte, NY just a hundred miles away. Nobody's trying to boot us out of the South or has a case of the screaming icky poos from having to associate with us, and it stays cooler here in the summer and gets colder in the winter than nearly anywhere else in the South. Come to think of it, that's why all those Floridian developers came up here after their little frenzy in South Beach and helped get our Art Deco downtown off the ground. So to speak. But that being the case, are we Asheville, FL and not Asheville, MO? And come to think of it, considering that we're a national center for the Wiccan religion, would we perhaps be better thought of as Asheville, MA, considering how much our Wiccan community resembles that of Salem, MA?

Because I'd just hate to bite the bullet and recognize the diversity of the South. After all, if it ain't Dogpatch, it ain't Southern!

[destroycreate]

I definitely consider Miami to be part of the Caribbean. It doesn't not feel culturally Southern whatsoever. Asheville still has far more in common with Montgomery, AL than Miami does with Nashville.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I definitely consider Miami to be part of the Caribbean. It doesn't not feel culturally Southern whatsoever. Asheville still has far more in common with Montgomery, AL than Miami does with Nashville.

Miami is not a part of the Caribbean. It's an American city in the southeast region.

New York has nothing in common with Baltimore, yet they're both mid-Atlantic coastal cities.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I definitely consider Miami to be part of the Caribbean. It doesn't not feel culturally Southern whatsoever. Asheville still has far more in common with Montgomery, AL than Miami does with Nashville.

miami is an american city, in an american state, located in the southeastern US, influenced by a mix of cultures including the caribbean, latin america, canada, europe, russia, and others.

[McBane]

I'm not saying that the South isn't diverse. No one area of this country is truly uniform. But even with that acknowledgement (which was so obvious, I didn't bother stating that disclaimer in my previous post), South FL is an outlier from the rest of the South. Its history, migration and development patterns, culture, cuisine, dominant religious and ethnic groups are just vastly different from the rest of the south.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I definitely consider Miami to be part of the Caribbean. It doesn't not feel culturally Southern whatsoever. Asheville still has far more in common with Montgomery, AL than Miami does with Nashville.

Actually, in terms of demographics, climate, and median income, Asheville is nothing like Montgomery. We are, however, in line with Evansville, IN. Therefore, I demand my city be considered part of Indiana.

See, that's the fun you can have with this kind of nonsense, and just think of the fun you'd deny yourself if we all just settled down and admitted that the South can and does include Miami because the South is not a monolithic region divided neatly between inbred hillbillies and soulless tracts of sprawl and malls.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Actually, in terms of demographics, climate, and median income, Asheville is nothing like Montgomery. We are, however, in line with Evansville, IN. Therefore, I demand my city be considered part of Indiana.

I would generally agree. Southern Indiana, culturally, should probably be grouped with the South. Pretty much all of Indiana south of Indy (as well as parts of Ohio and Illinois) are culturally Southern.

Miami, on the other hand, is about as culturally southern as Boston or Seattle.

[iheartthed]

There are parts of Miami that feel just as southern as any other city in the South.

[JManc]

It's still the South but all carpetbagged to hell by all them damn Yankees and foreigners.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There are parts of Miami that feel just as southern as any other city in the South.

Where in Miami does it feel remotely like, say, Jackson, MS?

I think even NYC would have more southern cred at this point. While NYC's black community skews Carribean, there are still a ton of black folks with roots in the Carolinas and Georgia, especially.

Does Miami even have non-immigrant black neighborhoods?

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I would generally agree. Southern Indiana, culturally, should probably be grouped with the South. Pretty much all of Indiana south of Indy (as well as parts of Ohio and Illinois) are culturally Southern.

Miami, on the other hand, is about as culturally southern as Boston or Seattle.

But as I keep pointing out, the "cultural" South encompasses more than just fat white Baptists who burn rubber out of the church parking lot on Sunday so they can beat the Methodists to the steakhouse. I assure you that the Gullah culture of the Low Country in South Carolina has next to nothing in common with Charlotte or Atlanta, but nobody's trying to excommunicate it. There are islands off the coast of Virginia so isolated that the residents still speak a form of Elizabethan English, and have nothing in common with any American culture anywhere, but they're still Southern.

The South is a big tent, but it's also a tent upon which a great many people have spent a great many years pissing. Therefore, there is a certain stigma to being in said tent, which is why so many people will mentally contort themselves to avoid having to admit that like it or not, geographically -- and therefore in every other way -- they are Southerners. They may be new Southerners, yes, but Southerners they are. I mean, those same New Yorkers, Michiganders, Ohioans, New Jerseyans, Pennsylvanians and others who settle in Florida before moving to someplace with seasons are increasingly skipping Florida altogether and just moving straight to Western North Carolina. There are certain golf courses, nursing homes, and gated communities here where, when the residents get to talking, their nasal Northeastern accents make it sound like a flock of honking geese, same as it would if they'd stayed put in Massachusetts, and where half the houses are inhabited by good Northern Catholics with their concrete virgins in the yard. Nobody's trying to say those enclaves aren't Southern.