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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 7:23 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Public housing, at least in the tenement kind common from the mid-century was and is an absolute horrible solution to slums.

The decentralized voucher system seems to work much better overall.
It's worth noting that although I'm not a fan of the mid-20th century residential highrise surrounded by empty green space model, that in and of itself isn't what killed public housing. In NYC there are many market-rate buildings (excepting rent control) which were built with the exact same design, and they didn't go to shit at all.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I know this was posted to somehow argue that highrises don't work, but NYCHA's current issues have nothing to do with the buildings.

NYCHA currently has a funding crisis because it has sustained a 75% cut in federal expenditures. Something like a third of public housing is in NYC, so the current crisis is basically akin to Washington going to war on orange production and then blaming Florida.

In any case, despite the massive drop in federal funding, NYCHA is still considered the model U.S. housing agency, with relatively low crime and social dysfunction. Notwithstanding the idiocy from Washington (which actually predates Trump), NYCHA isn't going anywhere, and there is no intention of demolishing even a single unit of NYCHA housing. In fact, new towers are being built.
well why is the richest city in the country / world in need of federal funds for housing? Surely the state/city should be able to fund its own public housing?
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 7:36 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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For one, the rural and suburban problems end up concentrated in core cities. Everybody should pay their fair share.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 7:46 PM
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The us is like this forum, never updated lol
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 7:47 PM
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what? rural america has a lot more dysfunction that new york city.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 7:49 PM
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Rural areas have their own socioeconomic/ housing issues. Lot's of them and suburbia is starting to erode from them as well as poverty gets "priced" out of the urban centers. This is why funding should be at a federal level and not have everyone fending for themselves.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc View Post
The world before public housing wasn't exactly a roaring success either.

Bayard Street tenement in New York, 1889:


Source.

Homeless camp in Seattle, 1934:


Source.
Wow, amazing photos!
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 10:13 PM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
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The bolded stuff sounds like the Trump administration -- all about policing and walling off people and neighborhoods. This is NOT the predominant theory.
I think the idea has merit when the walls and the policing are the responsibility of residents of themselves. I agree that as a "top down" idea it is flat out dystopian.

The goal would be to delineate public vs. private space so that normal cultural expectations that people in communities use to self-organize can take root.

In a typical American neighborhood, you put a fence around your yard. That says, I am responsible for everything inside of it and the stuff outside is public. Some activities are acceptable in one but not the other and it makes it easy to tell.

If a stranger is lurking in your yard they are in big trouble. If a stranger is walking down the street they have a right to be there. A great deal of conflict is resolved by making that distinction. In an apartment complex it is kind of ambiguous as to whether or not a stranger may lurk near your unit in the green space. You don't want to go snitch at the front office because maybe they are a resident and you wouldn't want to be treated with such suspicion if the shoe was on the other foot, but then what if they really are a threat?

Of course I'm not sure I agree with Pedestrian's analysis. These criticisms apply mainly to apartment complexes with a lot of awkward semi-public spaces. In a high rise or apartment block everything is different, apples and oranges.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 11:42 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc View Post
The world before public housing wasn't exactly a roaring success either.

Bayard Street tenement in New York, 1889:


Source.

Homeless camp in Seattle, 1934:


Source.
This is what happens when you have no housing regulations, not when you have no public housing. Chicago has eviscerated it's public housing stock and none of these things are occurring. They've demolished all the projects and replaced only a small number of units. Voucher programs like section 8 are a much better way of dealing with the portions of society unable to house themselves on their own. The pictures above cannot happen again because we have laws preventing people from doing things like cramming 30 people into an apartment, building tenements, or just constructing shacks on vacant land.

That said our housing would be more affordable if we still allowed tenement style construction with modern safety codes. The biggest problem we have is that affordable housing is illegal to construct in our cities today as the entire construction industry is wildly over regulated and we have basically banned density.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 11:47 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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We have the same thing in Seattle that we had in that photo...now it's tents in greenbelts and along sidewalks.

Regulations should never waver on safety. But they should be WAY more accommodating on square footage.
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