America Still Loves Cars, But Some Cities Are Starting to Ditch Them

[mhays]

Seattle recently started requiring it. It's a challenge in a condo (I use my bottom freezer drawer and have to schlep it downstairs with the recycling, unlike garbage which has a chute) and in office buildings (three-bin system with all that entails).

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Not only do you recycle...you also compost? Because Seattle. I wish we did that here. I'm thinking about putting one in our backyard and composting all our food waste.

San Francisco does. Mandatory composting. And in the case of large buildings, they check. The city sells the compost to organic farmers around central CA. Result is lots of good produce.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by mhays

Seattle recently started requiring it. It's a challenge in a condo (I use my bottom freezer drawer and have to schlep it downstairs with the recycling, unlike garbage which has a chute) and in office buildings (three-bin system with all that entails).

In my midrise, the compost materials just go in a separate bin in the trash room down the hall. The only problem is that the compostable (biodegradable) trash bags need improvement. If you don’t toss them every day and put any wet garbage in them like most food scraps, they can break and about ⅓ of the ones I’ve found—every supermarket in SF sells them now—have a hole or tear right out of the box.

PS: Speaking of HOA fees, this year marks a major line—my HOA assessment will exceed my mortgage payment for the first time. It does cover everything, including internet and cable TV, except electricity. We have an army of janitorial staff ( so we don’t have to lug the compostables far I suppose) and 24/7 security guards.

[JManc]

What do you guys do with the compost if you live in condos? I live in a house and would use it on the lawn. Does the city (Seattle/ San Francisco) take it?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by JManc

What do you guys do with the compost if you live in condos? I live in a house and would use it on the lawn. Does the city (Seattle/ San Francisco) take it?

I would assume so. Here, for at least a decade I'd say, there's been three municipal bins: recycling, trash-garbage, compost. I'd be surprised if West Coast cities weren't at least as advanced.

The city doesn't force anyone to recycle or compost, but after implementing the compost bins they diminished the collection frequency for the trash bin, so that people would be somewhat forced to sort their waste better. If you're old and stubborn and still want to put everything in the trash bin, which you legally can, it will probably be overflowing way before collection week.

The next step is probably going to be replacing the trash bins with smaller bins...

The downside of that approach is that I have witnessed people shamelessly putting their trash into the recycling bins when the trash bins are full, and that obviously puts more strain on the sorting centers. You'll get fined if you're caught doing that but the likelihood of it happening is pretty low.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

What do you guys do with the compost if you live in condos? I live in a house and would use it on the lawn. Does the city (Seattle/ San Francisco) take it?

In SF, the compostables get picked up along with the rest of the trash. Everybody has 3 cans: Black (landfill), Blue (recyclables) and Green (compostables).


https://www.recology.com/recology-sa..._998c879458_z/

The compostable material gets taken to a site run by the trash company (Recology):


http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openfo...ro-5918464.php

When it's ready, it gets sold to organic farmers around Central California:

SF composted garbage being spread on a vinyard

http://www.motherjones.com/environme...-your-compost/

[mhays]

Originally Posted by JManc

What do you guys do with the compost if you live in condos? I live in a house and would use it on the lawn. Does the city (Seattle/ San Francisco) take it?

There's a bin in the garage. Every month or two I take down a bag that's been in my freezer. I guess I don't eat that much produce.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by lio45

I would assume so. Here, for at least a decade I'd say, there's been three municipal bins: recycling, trash-garbage, compost. I'd be surprised if West Coast cities weren't at least as advanced.

The city doesn't force anyone to recycle or compost, but after implementing the compost bins they diminished the collection frequency for the trash bin, so that people would be somewhat forced to sort their waste better. If you're old and stubborn and still want to put everything in the trash bin, which you legally can, it will probably be overflowing way before collection week . . . .

It's not voluntary here:

The San Francisco Mandatory Recycling and Composting Ordinance (No. 100-09) is a local municipal ordinance requiring all persons located in San Francisco to separate their recyclables, compostables and landfilled trash and to participate in recycling and composting programs. Passed by the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in 2009, it became the first local municipal ordinance in the United States to universally require source separation of all organic material, including food residuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Fr...ting_Ordinance

And like I said before, with larger buildings they actually check. If the trash company repeatedly finds signficant recuclables in the landfill bin or compostables in the other bins, you can be fined.

In the event of “egregious” cases of noncompliance, or failure to separate recyclables, compostables, and trash, fines up to $100 for single-family homes and up to $1000 for large businesses are issued.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Fr...ting_Ordinance

A couple times a year my condo manager emails everyone reminding us to put stuff in the proper bins or the HOA will be fined. Again, as I said, in my building we have a shoot for landfill trash in our trash rooms and 2 bins, one for recyclables and one for compostables. The janitorial staff has to empty those bins every day.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

In SF, the compostables get picked up along with the rest of the trash. Everybody has 3 cans: Black (landfill), Blue (recyclables) and Green (compostables).


https://www.recology.com/recology-sa..._998c879458_z/

I think our style of approach works just as well in practice... (make that black bin much smaller and only pick it up once a month; keep the green bin the same size and pick it up every week; possible fines if you're caught with trash in your green bin but not the other way around.)

... in fact, all things considered, I prefer it to San Francisco's use of force. (In practice both work well enough I'd guess.)

[JManc]

I wish this sort of thing was enforced nationwide. The shit people throw away...

[mousquet]

@JManc Lionel is right...

I wasn't upset at you in particular, but your "vacuum cleaner" term upset me. Just wtf?

You can't talk like that. Mass transit is not anything that lower-end. It is an obvious sign of wealth and strength.
You know, people aren't just dust... They're way bigger than cars.

Someday, hopefully, you may feel comfy in a subway.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mousquet

@JManc Lionel is right...

I wasn't upset at you in particular, but your "vacuum cleaner" term upset me. Just wtf?

You can't talk like that. Mass transit is not anything that lower-end. It is an obvious sign of wealth and strength.
You know, people aren't just dust... They're way bigger than cars.

Someday, hopefully, you may feel comfy in a subway.

It's all good...but I have no idea why talking about vaccum cleaners set you off. I must be missing something.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by JManc

It's all good...but I have no idea why talking about vaccum cleaners set you off. I must be missing something.

I'm one of those bold and shameless who patiently talk to people who get up at 5 am or go home at 10+ pm, to do the cleaning up before or after office hours. I saw and know lots of them.
These people daily handle vacuum cleaners. That's what they actually do, every day. That is a waste IMO.
So, I don't like vacuum cleaners. They all should be automated.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mousquet

I'm one of those bold and shameless who patiently talk to people who get up at 5 am or go home at 10+ pm, to do the cleaning up before or after office hours. I saw and know lots of them.
These people daily handle vacuum cleaners. That's what they actually do, every day. That is a waste IMO.
So, I don't like vacuum cleaners. They all should be automated.

That's our problem right here. We are talking about two completely different things...a "vacuum cleaner" is not a person, it's an appliance:



You must be referring to what we call here in the US, custodians or janitors.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

I wish this sort of thing was enforced nationwide. The shit people throw away...

For years I used to buy a product called Zoodoo for my lawn (when I had a lawn). It is precisely "the shit people throw away":

Zoo Doo is a fully composted blend of animal manures mixed with straw bedding, grass, leaves and wood chips from the grounds of (Seattle's Woodland Park) zoo.

https://www.zoo.org/zoodoo

It turned the grass green like nothing else. I highly recommend it.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by mousquet

I'm one of those bold and shameless who patiently talk to people who get up at 5 am or go home at 10+ pm, to do the cleaning up before or after office hours. I saw and know lots of them.
These people daily handle vacuum cleaners. That's what they actually do, every day. That is a waste IMO.
So, I don't like vacuum cleaners. They all should be automated.

In America, Consumer Reports Magazine recently rated the available robovacs and, while they found some of them quite effective, none was as effective as a human-wielded upright vacuum.

Then there's the problem of how the people who daily do the vacuuming would obtain an income if this job and most of the other jobs like it were automated. As long as their efforts are at least as effective as the robots, I'd prefer to pay them.

[cannedairspray]

This vacuum cleaner emotional tangent is a top 20 weird conversation I've seen on the internet, and obviously that's saying something. I mean, it's the internet.

[Citylover94]

In my experience coming from a relatively small town in New England is that a lot more people in my area would be perfectly happy to give up their cars if the bus network in my area ran slightly more frequently and with longer hours. Currently it only runs weekdays and from 6 am to 7 pm. The frequency varies between each route with the most frequent line running every fifteen minutes and the least frequent running every hour. If the system wide frequency on every line shifted to fifteen minutes and it ran from 6 am to 10 pm everyday instead of just weekdays I think many people who currently drive would switch to taking the bus based on the surveys the bus system takes each year and the public support for funding for the bus system which is funded entirely by the state/towns and does not collect any fares. I think most people would still own a car, but I also think that the majority of people around here would be happy to take the bus instead of driving if it were more useful. Maybe this is specific to where I live, but it seems like most people would be happy to drive less if it were possible.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Citylover94

In my experience coming from a relatively small town in New England is that a lot more people in my area would be perfectly happy to give up their cars if the bus network in my area ran slightly more frequently and with longer hours.
...

I grew up in a town of 560 in rural Oregon outside of Portland. I dragged my feet on getting my driver's license because I just didn't need a car except to take my brothers places. I biked all over. The closest bus stop for a bus that went into Portland was 7 miles away. I never actually rode my bike and then took the bus in, but I did ride my bike to that same town sometimes, and I did take the bus from there into Portland sometimes, just never on the same trip. But if there had been a bus between where I grew up and that next town every 15 minutes, it would have been awesome!

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by cannedairspray

I mean, it's the internet.

It started 20+ years ago where I am. You need to wake up. First time I had to deal with your "internet" (the term's as ancient as Netscape), I still was sucking on a pacifier like a baby.