---Majin's *Official* November 4th 2008 General Election Recommendations---

[NatomasLarry]

Originally Posted by Quest

What's next, it's normal to sleep with dogs? BIG YES ON Prop8 and NO on pervets...

See #3 below regarding the above statement:

The Top Ten Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong

1. Homosexuality is not natural. Real people always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
4. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are still property, blacks still aren’t supposed to marry whites.
5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if homosexual marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
6. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Homosexual couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full yet, and the world needs more children.
7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in North America.
9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven’t adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

[econgrad]

The Issue
California voters passed Proposition 22 in 2000 by more than 61%, saying that a marriage in California is between a man and a woman. Earlier this year, four activist judges based in San Francisco wrongly overturned the people's vote, legalizing same-sex marriage.
The Consequences
The Supreme Court’s decision to legalize same-sex marriage did not just overturn the will of California voters; it also redefined marriage for the rest of society, without ever asking the people themselves to accept this decision. This decision has far-reaching consequences. For example, because public schools are already required to teach the role of marriage in society as part of the curriculum, schools will now be required to teach students that gay marriage is the same as traditional marriage, starting with kindergarteners. By saying that a marriage is between “any two persons” rather than between a man and a woman, the Court decision has opened the door to any kind of “marriage.” This undermines the value of marriage altogether at a time when we should be restoring marriage, not undermining it.
The Solution
Vote YES on Proposition 8 to overturn the outrageous Supreme Court decision and restore the definition of marriage that was approved by over 61% of voters. Proposition 8 is NOT an attack on gay couples and does not take away the rights that same-sex couples already have under California’s domestic partner law. California law already grants domestic partners all the rights that a state can grant to a married couple. Gays have a right to their private lives, but not to change the definition of marriage for everyone else.

Passing Proposition 8 protects our children and places into the Constitution the simple definition that a marriage is between a man and a woman.

[BrianSac]

Gay People Are Mothers, Fathers, Guardians, Teachers, Police Officers, Soldiers, And Protectors Of Children Just Like Most Other Law-Abiding People.

Children need to be protected from STRAIGHT(Heterosexual) MEN.
By far, the majority of sexual crimes against children and adults are committed by STRAIGHT(HETEROS) MEN.

[ltsmotorsport]

Originally Posted by Quest

What's next, it's normal to sleep with dogs? BIG YES ON Prop8 and NO on pervets...

I really didn't think anyone so ignorant and bigoted was left in California. Gays and lesbians are perverts? Why? Cause they like to have sex? Guess what, so do us straits.

Now, I myself don't necessarily agree with everything about the gay lifestyle, but I also know that I have not right to tell people what they can or can't do, especially when I don't know them and it's none of my business.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by snfenoc

or Karl Marx.


(Before you libcialists get all pissy, MccAncient ain't that much better).


Vote Bob Barr!

Sorry, I am registered in Orangevale, so I have no say in the Mayor's race. Vote McClintock! - Good grief Charlie Brown! Stop hiding behind your military service, etc. You are no conservative. You'll just be another Pelosi Puppet. No, I'll take the libertarian leaning guy, whether he's Travelin' Tom or not.

No on 1A - Obvious reasons

No on 2 - Animals do not have rights. They are property. I will do what I want with my property, whether you like it or not.

No on 3 - Sigh! Bonds!

Yes on 4 - I saw an anti ad the other day telling me to get out of my little world or whatever. Ahhhhh! There's that liberal elitism I've come to know and hate. Well, 1 in 10 girls may get abused by their alcoholic fathers for whoring it up, but that's no reason to deny all parents the right to know.

No on 5 - Rehab?? Screw that! Just make drugs legal. Then they aren't a problem. Hooked? Oh well, they will be less expensive so you can support your habit without resorting to criminal activity. I can't wait for the day when I can go to the store and buy a big bag of pot, some rubbing alcohol and a Coke Zero for like $10 bucks. (Although with these artificially low interest rates and the government printing money out of no where, inflation may make that trip to the store cost about $1000 bucks.)

No on 6 - Again, just make drugs legal - it'll take care of a lot a gang issues.

No on 7 - Not a job for government. You wanna be green? Do it on YOUR own with YOUR own money. Plus, it's a bond!!!! I HATE BONDS!!!

Yes on 8 - I changed my mind. I hate to change the constitution, but I'll be darned if I'm gonna stand by and allow the state seal (which partially - One 37 millionth - belongs to me) to affirm a sham contract. (Let the flaming begin.) I love all my gay peeps, but I have a right as a citizen to decide which contracts I think are right and proper, and I just don't think gays should marry. Sorry. It does not hurt your freedom, you can still sign "partnership" contracts. You can still call yourself married. You can still have your relationship. Proposition 8 does nothing to affect that stuff. It's simply about recognition. In fact, I see voting for 8 as an exercise in my freedom - to decide which contracts I think are proper and which ones I think are crap. We would not have to do this, but some elitist judges decided to overturn the will of 60% of the voters. Evidently, they think they have a right to decide the constitutionality of laws. I don't (I know I'm alone on this one, but I don't care. The citizens should decided constitutionality with the mandate they give those they elect.)

No on 9 - Victims Bill of Rights? Mary's Law? Any time a new law is labeled as a "Bill of Rights" or it's named after someone, I vote No. It'll probably make us less free/give the government power it should not have.

No on 10 - Screw you T. Boone - I'm not falling for your money-stealing scheme. Again, this is not a job for government money. If you can't convince enough people to buy CNG vehicles, then too bad, so sad, you made marry mad. Plus it's a f**king bond.

Yes on 11 - I don't really like this, but I can just see the libs redrawing district after district to screw people like me, so it gets a Yes!

No on 12 - bonds. sigh.

It's always best to vote out of rage and bitterness. Who are you picking for class president?

[snfenoc]

I don't know where you pick up rage and bitterness in that post. Aggressively stating your ideals is not the same as spewing rage and bitterness.....Wait a sec....Oh, I get it I have a different view of government than you, so you feel the need to make fun of me and be dismissive toward me. Even more of that liberal elitism I’ve come to know and hate. Your disapproval is an absolute assurance I am right. Thanks for the affirmation bud.


To Brian:
I am not a “homophobe” (I hate that pejorative) - Just trust me on this one.

My vote for Prop 8 does not make me a bigot (There are other things that make me a bigot, but this ain't one of them) - I'm actually fairly tolerant of gays. I accept their right to live and love how they wish. I understand their struggles and desires. I disagree with their lifestyle, but disagreement and intolerance are not the same thing. I'm not a God hates f*gs person. It's not my place to judge. Heck, I have my own issues; I don't need to take on yours. But Proposition 8 is not about intolerance and judgement (AT LEAST NOT FOR ME). It's about establishing a standard. Marriage is between a man and a woman - sorry, that's just a fact. I refuse to stand by and ignore an opportunity to prevent my government from affirming the sham that is gay marriage . Again, I would prefer my state not recognize marriage at all. If couples want legal status, they should become domestic partners. Marriage is religious; it should remain that way. However, my Utopian views are not the reality; I accept that. But a sham HAS become reality, and I won't allow my state to recognize it any longer; it's not marriage.

People say this is discriminatory. Yep, it is. So? People discriminate all the time. No big deal. Oh, and don't compare this to the historical discrimination against blacks, and the Japanese, and any other victim group you can think of. Apples and oranges.

FINALLY, you said (in reference to me) something like, jsf8278, you can't convince people like him. He's a blah, blah, blah... I'm offended by this. I truly am. I can be persuaded. I'm tuned in. I'm turned on. I look at the facts. I weigh the possibilities and consequences. But your statement makes it sound like I'm some bigoted, idiot puppet just waiting for orders from the religious right. Your statement is dismissive and marginalizing. Well, with nastiness like that, you probably can't convince me of anything. I'm not going to listen to a condescending jerk. I won't be shamed into voting against my conscience. Respect me. Give me something better than just anger and stupid emotional arguments. Re-read jsf8278's nasty post, would you be convinced by that? If I called you a bigot or a homophobe, would you be convinced? If I acted like elitist snob, would you be convinced. If I called your ideas and ideals irrational and silly, would you be convinced?

At the end of the day, what reasonable arguments you have probably won't convince me. But that's OK. We can agree to disagree. There is no need for you gays to be so nasty. Prop 8 won't stop your relationship. It won't prevent you from having sex. It won't even regulate how you have sex. Heck, you can call your sig other husband if you want. Prop 8 is about preventing my state from accepting a definition of marriage that has never been accepted before. It's about maintaining a tradition.

By the way, education has been a center of the Prop 8 debate for a few weeks now. I don't buy the claims of the liberal teacher's union. Gay marriage will eventually be taught in public schools. This is yet another reason why it’s time to get rid of public schools.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by snfenoc

I don't know where you pick up rage and bitterness in that post. Aggressively stating your ideals is not the same as spewing rage and bitterness.....Wait a sec....Oh, I get it I have a different view of government than you, so you feel the need to make fun of me and be dismissive toward me. Even more of that liberal elitism I’ve come to know and hate. Your disapproval is an absolute assurance I am right. Thanks for the affirmation bud.

No, I said it because you use very angry words and have quite a persecution complex. You even admit that you hate "liberal elitism" as if it's everywhere and out to get you.

[snfenoc]

You might want to take some of what I say with a grain of salt - the problem with the internet is you can't see the twinkle in my eye. I'm not that angry of a person (I still think my post was more aggressive than anything else - it was meant to be provocative). Expressing hate or anger at one particular thing does not make me an angry person. A little perspective, please! I do hate dismissivness ("Your thoughts are irrational", "Don't even waste your time arguing with that guy..."); and I do hate pejoratives ("He's a homophobe", "He's a bigot"). I hate them because they don't really add to the debate. However, that hate does not determine how I will vote. My votes are based off of my idealology, not my mood.



By the way, I do not have a persecution complex.....now stop persecuting me!!!

[Majin]

It looks like prop 1A passed... we need to get some funds going start up some frivolous lawsuits to derail this thing. Anybody want to pitch in for a general fund? Maybe some fundraisers?

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

No, I said it because you use very angry words and have quite a persecution complex. You even admit that you hate "liberal elitism" as if it's everywhere and out to get you.

Yep, i agree tone down the angry words.

snfenoc,
I wasn’t trying to convince you of anything. I was responding to jts’s comments.

But, since you addressed me personally, I guess I have to respond. You have not convinced me of anything either.

I have principles and ideals too, and they don’t include singling out a group of people for civil discrimination, and using the constitution to do it is simply wrong and un-American, imho.

Some of what I said about people of your persuasion was based on your prior post which was rather harsh. Go back and read it.

I am not unreasonable and sometimes one needs to discriminate, but not regarding same sex marriage. For example, we discriminate against convicted killers for certain things, but those guys earned that type of discrimination.

But to discriminate against Gay people who are Mothers, Fathers, Teachers, Police Officers, Soldiers, Doctors, nurses, child care givers, and defenders of our country, and so many other law abiding contributors to our society is so wrong. In my opinion, equality regarding marriage applies to race and sexual orientation. There is no difference.

[econgrad]

^
7 out of 10 Black voters who voted for Obama, voted yes on Prop 8. Please end the "Its discrimination" or "Civil Rights" argument. It is not. As for all the harsh words, I agree that is not necessary. Briansac, all the Mothers, Fathers, Teachers, Police Officers, Soldiers, Doctors, nurses, child care givers, and defenders of our country, and so many other law abiding contributors to our society who are Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Jewish, and many other people of faith and those who just believe in morality disagree with you. That is why it passed. I guess the debate will not be over anytime soon...

[kryptos]

^^ you got that right..ive heard that it will be back on the ballot in 2010..this time to overturn it...prop 8 barely passed, and the more time passes, the more people are ok with gays being allowed to marry...

this is nothing more than wacko right wing conservatives using GW BUSH fear tactics to scare the electorate into voting for a law that is no different from the fatwas made by right wing muslim fanatics we ridicule everyday and claim to be better than....

the taliban oppressed women
saddam oppressed freedom
and you oppressed equality

youre no different, no better

and for the record, im a christian, my father is a christian preacher for his church and california state prisons, im fiscally conservative and i voted for arnold, im hispanic and my fiance is catholic and was born in mexico city...and we all voted AGAINST prop 8...

because it IS discrimination

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by kryptos

^^ you got that right..ive heard that it will be back on the ballot in 2010..this time to overturn it...prop 8 barely passed, and the more time passes, the more people are ok with gays being allowed to marry...

this is nothing more than wacko right wing conservatives using GW BUSH fear tactics to scare the electorate into voting for a law that is no different from the fatwas made by right wing muslim fanatics we ridicule everyday and claim to be better than....

the taliban oppressed women
saddam oppressed freedom
and you oppressed equality

youre no different, no better

and for the record, im a christian, my father is a christian preacher for his church and california state prisons, im fiscally conservative and i voted for arnold, im hispanic and my fiance is catholic and was born in mexico city...and we all voted AGAINST prop 8...

because it IS discrimination

Amen, thank you for voting No on Prop 8, its exactly people like you that Gays so desperately need to support us. We are a very small minority (10-15%) and we can't achieve equality without you. Thanks Again.

It is very refreshing and it gives me hope that this type of discrimination will end one day. Because right now, I feel completely disenfranchised. Although happy about the Obama win its bittersweet when the majority takes away a basic civil right.

[bennywah]

until people can fully realize that being gay is not a choice, those groups will continue to see this as not discrimination, and since heterosexuals don't choose to be gay unless there's some underground movement we don't know about I guess it'll take even more scientific evidence to prove this fact even though 99% of gay people will tell you they didn't choose this "lifestyle".

I hope that the trends will continue as they have will get to the point where we can let people be, respect our ideas and beliefs, but not allow those beliefs to take away rights from others, and gov't shouldn't be dealing in the love lives of anyone, even if a majority want to impose their idea of whats right, gay people are born they way they are, they are not freaks, and deserve equal rights, that is what the supreme court ruled, not that gay marrige was right or wrong but signaling out a group that is protected is discrimination.

I won't call people names or try to force a view on anyone but I ask that people put themselves into another persons shoes, and think what it would be like to be on the other side, and if you can do that then a discussion can occur which finds common ground, or allows someone to learn something new.

otherwise these back and forth fights involving money, and laws, and lawsuits will continue when its so un-needed, so lets take a deep breath, start a discussion and learn from one another and end discrimination!!

[TowerDistrict]

last night, i watched the country take one step forward, and the state take two steps back.

[BrianSac]

bennywah,
I could not have said it any better. I agree 100%.

[econgrad]

Originally Posted by kryptos

^^ you got that right..ive heard that it will be back on the ballot in 2010..this time to overturn it...prop 8 barely passed, and the more time passes, the more people are ok with gays being allowed to marry...

this is nothing more than wacko right wing conservatives using GW BUSH fear tactics to scare the electorate into voting for a law that is no different from the fatwas made by right wing muslim fanatics we ridicule everyday and claim to be better than....

the taliban oppressed women
saddam oppressed freedom
and you oppressed equality

youre no different, no better

and for the record, im a christian, my father is a christian preacher for his church and california state prisons, im fiscally conservative and i voted for arnold, im hispanic and my fiance is catholic and was born in mexico city...and we all voted AGAINST prop 8...

because it IS discrimination

Your fiance must be extremely ignorant on the Church's point of view. Does she know what the Catechism is? It is the book of Catholic belief that are the rules of the Church, that states that the practice of Homosexuality is an sin against the Church and God. If you claim you are a Catholic, you cannot in good conscious vote against Prop8. This means, you are really not a Catholic. 2357 of the Catechism, tell her and other ignorant Catholics to read it. If they disagree, they need to change religions.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by econgrad

^
7 out of 10 Black voters who voted for Obama, voted yes on Prop 8. Please end the "Its discrimination" or "Civil Rights" argument. It is not.

What? Just because former victims of hate are now the perpetrators, you think it's not a civil rights issue? That's like saying blacks cannot be racist, either.

[Majin]

Are we going to start talking about how we plan to derail HSR?

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by Majin

Are we going to start talking about how we plan to derail HSR?

Isn't that terrorism?