Metro Vancouver & Interregional Passenger Ferry Service Discussion

[madog222]

Vancouver to Nanaimo passenger ferry to start next summer, another shot at this in a long line of failed attempts. This time by a partnership between the Snuneymuxw First Nation and a Toronto based private equity firm, Conqora.

Their website, as it is, is live. https://www.vifc.com/

Nanaimo to downtown Vancouver ferry service plans summer, 2023 launch

The Vancouver Island Ferry Company has yet to announce rates or schedules, but says it plans to be up and running by summer 2023.

In a media release Tuesday, the company said sailings between the Nanaimo Port Authority Terminal and the Vancouver Harbour Flight Centre at the Vancouver Convention Centre would take about 70 minutes.

The company plans to serve the route using a pair of high-speed catamarans built by Dutch shipbuilder the Damen Group.

Each vessel can handle about 350 passengers. The company says there will be several classes, and people will be able to reserve their seats.

From Global BC https://globalnews.ca/news/9269463/n...oot-passenger/


In the meantime they are being sued by a former proponent for the ferry run.

A company that previously had agreements for fast ferry service from Nanaimo to Vancouver has initiated a lawsuit against the Nanaimo Port Authority and another fast ferry proponent.

Island Ferry Services filed a notice of civil claim Aug. 16 in the B.C. Supreme Court in Vancouver against the Port of Nanaimo and Conqora Partners Inc.

The plaintiffs – Island Ferry Services Ltd., Island Ferry Management Ltd. and Island Maritime Holdings Ltd. – have been pursuing fast-ferry service from the Harbour City to the mainland for 15 years, the claim states, and Island Ferries has spent $18 million in the effort, “including the creation of confidential and proprietary information necessary for the operation of the business, such as as business plans, financial models, ridership projections, operational plans, vessel certification, environmental reports and agreements with third parties.” The information was shared with the defendants, the claim noted.

The plaintiffs say they raised $11.6 million from investors, reached a “recognition, co-operation and benefits agreement” with Snuneymuxw in August 2020, “executed shipbuilding contracts with Damen Shipyards” for ferries, and received certification from Transport Canada to operate the ferries.

The notice claims that in the summer of 2019, Island Ferry Services was introduced to Forum Equity Partners as a potential investor and a mutal non-disclosure agreement was signed. In September 2019, Island Ferry Services was introduced to Rupesh Amin, who was identified as a managing partner of Forum, but was later disclosed to have started Conqora. The foot ferry business plan and other information was therefore passed on to Amin and Conqora without Island Ferry Services’ consent, states the claim.

From Karl Yu https://www.vancouverislandfreedaily...ferry-partner/

[djh]

It seems odd that they are only targetting a Vancouver - Nanaimo service.
I know it's a bit of a commuter town for Vancouver workers, but surely there is at least equal demand - if not moreso - for a Vancouver - Victoria service?

Is it possible that the ferry service or the seaplane service has freezed them out?

Either way, I hope they finally build a service that works, and lasts more than 2 struggling years (like the last couple of attempts), so they can ultimately expand the service to Victoria too. If they are cheaper than a ferry, and nearly as fast as a seaplane, I can't see why they would struggle to get business.

[Migrant_Coconut]

... Third fourth fifth time's the charm?

And it's not nearly as fast as a seaplane; Harbour Air does 30-40 minute flights, while the catamaran is pegged at 60-70. I'd suggest that if they want to make a express service to the Island, then forget ships altogether and just buy a pair of Airlander 10s.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by djh

It seems odd that they are only targetting a Vancouver - Nanaimo service.
I know it's a bit of a commuter town for Vancouver workers, but surely there is at least equal demand - if not moreso - for a Vancouver - Victoria service?

Is it possible that the ferry service or the seaplane service has freezed them out?

Either way, I hope they finally build a service that works, and lasts more than 2 struggling years (like the last couple of attempts), so they can ultimately expand the service to Victoria too. If they are cheaper than a ferry, and nearly as fast as a seaplane, I can't see why they would struggle to get business.

The geography really plays against service to Victoria harbour even if it is a better destination on paper.

This service at 70 min takes 3.5 times longer than Helijet/Harbour Air and is 2.5 times faster than taking public transit bus & BC Ferries.

The V2V service took 6 times longer than Helijet/Harbout Air but only 30min faster than taking public transit bus & BC Ferries.

[logan5]

The service was viable 20 years ago, so since both Vancouver and Nanaimo are even bigger cities now.

The time savings compared to taking BC Ferries is huge. To get from Nanaimo harbour to downtown Vancouver on BC Ferries, with loading and unloading, driving from Horseshoe Bay into Downtown Vancouver takes 2.5 hours vs just over an hour with fast foot ferry. Further down the line, if it becomes entrenched, then one might see it as a commuting option, ie live in Nanaimo and work in Vancouver.

If the price is right, that route makes it realistic for somebody from Nanaimo to do a shopping trip or a night out, just as if you were coming in from Abbottsford. If you were going to YVR, it would be faster to do fast ferry + Canada Line.

I think it will work.

[Klazu]

Took the V2V service once. It was nice and convenient but man, was it a long sailing and nothing one could use for commuting. Victoria is really far from Vancouver compared to Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay terminals.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

The service was viable 20 years ago, so since both Vancouver and Nanaimo are even bigger cities now.

It was? Then why have so many efforts failed?

They were asked about the price and didn't comment. Now, anybody who's made the weakest of business plans will know what they need to charge to break even. So the cost is probably higher than they want to admit.

Harbour Air starts at $103 one-way. I bet this boat won't be less than $80, and it will suck compared to taking a plane.

It's Nanaimo FFS.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It was? Then why have so many efforts failed?

They were asked about the price and didn't comment. Now, anybody who's made the weakest of business plans will know what they need to charge to break even. So the cost is probably higher than they want to admit.

Harbour Air starts at $103 one-way. I bet this boat won't be less than $80, and it will suck compared to taking a plane.

It's Nanaimo FFS.

HarbourLynx lasted 3 years. Not a huge run, but a 3 year run tells me that there is a viable business model. Tickets for HarbourLynx were $20 one way, so I would expect that tickets for this service wouldn't be too much more than that.

Bc Ferries charges 20 dollars for a walk on, so even if it is 30 dollars for this new service, it is well worth it, because you avoid having to take a bus from Horseshoe Bay into downtown, which adds 45 minutes to your travel time. When you factor in the transfer time from ferry to bus, the total travel time will be 2.5 hours, vs just over an hour.

The major difference here is that these operators seem a lot more financially secure. They will have 2 boats with a 350 passenger capacity vs HarbourLynx 1 boat with a 300 passenger capacity.

[ilikeredheads]

lol good luck with the attempt but we all know where this will end.

With only 2 vessels, they can neither compete with price nor frequency. Sure, they can charge more than $19 due to the location of the terminals but as mentioned it only starts at $103 to fly. Besides, is there really that much demand to Nanaimo??

I highly doubt a passenger only service can work since most will drive anyways. It's not like Nanaimo has good transit service.

[officedweller]

My financial planner worked in Vancouver and lived in Nanaimo.
He had a condo on this side to stay at during the week but would go back each weekend.

I think the one change that will impact the service's viability is the emergence of work-from-home and the technologies that enable it.
Those technologies did not exist 20 years ago, and were not as prevalent nor accepted by employers during the last HarbourLynx service (pre-Covid).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

HarbourLynx lasted 3 years. Not a huge run, but a 3 year run tells me that there is a viable business model. Tickets for HarbourLynx were $20 one way, so I would expect that tickets for this service wouldn't be too much more than that.

What evidence do you have that this is in any way profitable? How much more is gas now?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Wake me up when any of them manage a five-year run.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What evidence do you have that this is in any way profitable? How much more is gas now?

This company built a business model that would include ridership projections that say that this would be a profitable business, or else they wouldn't have spent millions of dollars to buy 2 brand new boats. Obviously nobody knows for certain if it will actually work until everything is up and running. And like I said before, HarbourLynx lasted for 3 years, so there is at least a strong potential for success.

Was just looking at the Damen website, and the only boat they offer for fast foot ferry is the Fast Ferry 4212, so this has to be the model running this route. It shows a capacity of 445 passengers, which is much higher than the 350 passengers stated in news articles (though it did say "more than 350 passengers").

For urban enthusiasts, this is a pretty cool new thing to have as a part of our transportation network. I hope it works.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I highly doubt a passenger only service can work since most will drive anyways.....

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It's Nanaimo FFS.

Lots to see & do on Vancouver Island but ZIP in Nanaimo.

I can see using this service if travelling light, renting a car upon landing and roaring off to adventure.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Assuming the "VIFC" even has ridership projections - remember, somebody thought running a shuttle bus from Surrey to UBC was a good idea.

[Conrad Yablonski]

A little spice/whiff of corporate skulduggery

https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news...ferry-partner/

[logan5]

There are 16 sailing per day between Nanaimo and Metro Vancouver, on ships that have a capacity of 1200 to 1600 passengers. There are a lot of people travelling back and forth between Nanaimo and Vancouver. That's a lot of potential customers who will have an alternative that is much faster, and probly not that much more expensive.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

There are 16 sailing per day between Nanaimo and Metro Vancouver, on ships that have a capacity of 1200 to 1600 passengers. There are a lot of people travelling back and forth between Nanaimo and Vancouver. That's a lot of potential customers who will have an alternative that is much faster, and probly not that much more expensive.

But all the seniors travelling midweek aren't paying for the trip. And nobody travelling in their own vehicle is going to switch to this service. It seems unlikely that many people living south of the Fraser will want to travel all the way Downtown to cross, rather than using Tsawwassen. As for the cost to travel, we'll see what they're hoping people will pay when it's announced next year.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Changing City

But all the seniors travelling midweek aren't paying for the trip. And nobody travelling in their own vehicle is going to switch to this service. It seems unlikely that many people living south of the Fraser will want to travel all the way Downtown to cross, rather than using Tsawwassen. As for the cost to travel, we'll see what they're hoping people will pay when it's announced next year.

I would suggest a big reason why people take their vehicles across is because they don't want to take a bus from Horseshoe Bay into downtown. The terminus for the fast ferry is walking distance to Waterfront Station, so there is a good network effect in play here. If you are going to YVR for example, it makes no sense to drive when it would be much faster to take a fast ferry and then walk 10 minutes to the Canada Line.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The YVR branch is one of the least busy SkyTrain segments, so I hope they're not banking on Horseshoe Bay commuters flying outside the province... and wouldn't it be easier to just fly from YCD to YVR and cut out the middlemen?