Anglo-Canadians closer to the modern UK or French Canadians to modern France?

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Here the British connection is still very strong. All of us have grandparents who drove on the left. Mrs. Brown's Boys is our equivalent of The Office in terms of which sections of society talks about it and how often. Coronation Street is, by far, the most popular non-news television program in Newfoundland.

You sure about the driving on the left bit. Newfoundland switched in 1947 so any drivers would be almost 90 now.

Mrs. Brown's Boys is pretty low brow isn't it. Personally I can't stand it. Too slapstick based. If you want working class humour with a very UK perspective check out the Royle Family based in a location not too far from Dev's and the Rovers and Nick's Bistro and the Kabin.

I do like the Office UK but my all time favourite UK comedy is Alan Partridge and League of Gentlemen which was filmed less than 5 km from where I lived as a kid and the look of the towns are almost identical.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

You sure about the driving on the left bit. Newfoundland switched in 1947 so any drivers would be almost 90 now.

BC and the Maritimes switched to left-side driving in the 1920's, so only a couple decades before Newfoundland.

Ontario and Quebec always drove on the right.

It would be interesting to see pictures of border crossings in BC or New Brunswick (into Maine or Quebec!) from 1920. I guess they were probably so small back then that it didn't matter much. For a while drivers also had to switch sides between NS and NB.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I would think that Quebec has more ties to France than English Canada to the UK simply because France is the dominant cultural, geopolitical and economic powerhouse of the French-speaking world and the UK is no longer that for the English-speaking world.

True, but then the question could be slightly reframed with UK + US as "modern foreign Anglo bloc" to compare to France as "modern foreign Franco bloc", and be just as valid/interesting.

[someone123]

Here is another question: do people think that Canada (or various parts of Canada) are socially more like the UK or more like the US?

For all the talk of how much closer Canada is to the US and how we consume more American media and go there more frequently I am not sure. There are a lot of similarities in governance and social programs in Canada and the UK that affect day-to-day life of a large number of people. American poverty and crime, health care, education, and infrastructure development are actually pretty different from Canada.

I remember a post about how rich Londoners make colonials feel like they are a waste of air. That is true but for me that is familiar (Canadians do it too) whereas I've encountered bombastic Americans that I had no idea how to deal with. I find that the more reserved personal interactions in London are closer to what I am used to than many similar personal interactions in New York or other American cities. London and other UK cities have also had a huge amount of influence on Canada; so much urban development here is clearly patterned after the UK. This extends well into the 20th century in a lot of places. Lots of British planners were working in Canada in the 1950's and 60's.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by lio45

True, but then the question could be slightly reframed with UK + US as "modern foreign Anglo bloc" to compare to France as "modern foreign Franco bloc", and be just as valid/interesting.

You think that would be an interesting question? If you lumped the UK + US together and asked whether English Canadians had more of an affinity with the UK+US or Quebecois with France, I think the answer would be obvious and not really debatable.

Heck, I even think that French-speaking Quebecois have much stronger connections to the US than they do to France.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Heck, I even think that French-speaking Quebecois have much stronger connections to the US than they do to France.

Are there many major physical monuments to Quebec or Canada in France? If you go to say, La Rochelle, is there a statue relating to Canada that is at least as big as, say, one of the thousands of statues dedicated to a comparatively minor continental military victory?

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Heck, I even think that French-speaking Quebecois have much stronger connections to the US than they do to France.

I can confirm you that, my friend. Even if my love for France is HUGE and I still recognize it as my motherland, I feel much more like a stranger there. Not because it's France, but because it's European.
When I go to USA, I feel like home. The only difference is the language. Other than that, there are very few adaptations for me, the roads, the architecture, the lifestyle are the same (especially in New England)

I'm a North American who speak French, that's it.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

You think that would be an interesting question?

lol, actually no, not at all when limited to what I wrote, 'cause as you say the answer is obvious. I had something more subtle in mind, but didn't express it well. As you correctly point out, the UK has been supplanted by the US as the planet's main Culturally Anglo force, so my point is that part of what Anglo Canada as an ex-colony would "get from Britain" the way Quebec "gets it from France" now comes from the US.

However, the US also happens to be a global superpower, and also happens to be a close neighbor with whom we trade and interact a lot, so we'd have to adjust for those factors, obviously. You're fully correct in pointing out that when we don't consider that, the question's ridiculous.

Trump gets much more media attention in Quebec than Macron, obviously, for various good reasons (he can affect us much more than Macron can: he can affect our ability to cross the border; he can affect our trade; he can affect the world by nuking North Korea; etc.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

Are there many major physical monuments to Quebec or Canada in France? If you go to say, La Rochelle, is there a statue relating to Canada that is at least as big as, say, one of the thousands of statues dedicated to a comparatively minor continental military victory?

There are physical monuments in some ports to commemorate the expeditions who left from those (Champlain in Honfleur, etc.) but unless it's changed since my visit they aren't very grand.

The biggest monuments to Quebec/Canada on French soil are actually probably in Normandy, to thank us for helping them in 1944-1945.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I can confirm you that, my friend. Even if my love for France is HUGE and I still recognize it as my motherland, I feel much more like a stranger there. Not because it's France, but because it's European.
When I go to USA, I feel like home. The only difference is the language. Other than that, there are very few adaptations for me, the roads, the architecture, the liftstyle are the same (especially in New England)

I'm a North American who speak French, that's it.

We are North Americans, no question however I understand what someone is getting at.

There are important institutions and a political culture in Canada which are heavily European influenced, and the reserved nature of Canadians tend to fit in well in the UK. Americans can be loud, bombastic and occasionally obnoxious. You see less of that in the UK (although I do remember a cockney cabbie in London once who was pretty rude and anti-colonial).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

The biggest monuments to Quebec/Canada on French soil are actually probably in Normandy, to thank us for helping them in 1944-1945.

Don't forget the war memorial at Vimy Ridge (although that's arguably Canadian soil since France ceded the site to us).

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I can confirm you that, my friend. Even if my love for France is HUGE and I still recognize it as my motherland, I feel like a stranger there. Not because it's France, but because it's European.
When I go to USA, I feel like home. The only difference is the language. Other than that, there are very few adaptations for me, the roads, the architecture, the liftstyle are the same (especially in New England)

Quebec culture travels A LOT in France though; our singers, bands, filmmakers, play writers, etc. have a disproportionate impact on France relative to the size of Quebec.

It's true that Quebeckers are definitely North-Americans, for sure, but we are much more influenced culturally by Europe (and France in particular) than the average American would be. Another movie exemple: the big french blockbuster of 2017 was a comedy call Le Sens de la fête, which was released october 4th in France. That movie is released this week on 13 screens across Quebec with adds on TV, etc. When the same movie will open in New York or Toronto (if it does), it will be on one screen and release as an "art movie" or a "foreign movie". In quebec, it's being release as a big commercial movie.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

There are physical monuments in some ports to commemorate the expeditions who left from those (Champlain in Honfleur, etc.) but unless it's changed since my visit they aren't very grand.

The biggest monuments to Quebec/Canada on French soil are actually probably in Normandy, to thank us for helping them in 1944-1945.

I've only been to Paris and I found there was very little Quebec/Canada stuff there. Much less than in the UK. In one sense that's understandable since Canada hasn't been a French colony for centuries, but in another it's remarkable how indifferent France has been at times toward its only "daughter" colony, the one place in the world where French settlers thrived and built a large and lasting society on their own. And France was generally much less successful at building a worldwide empire than the UK.

I mentioned La Rochelle because I know people who have done some Quebec-settler-themed trips, looking at places that have historical significance. Lots of 17th century stuff still exists but you might find little plaques about the old explorers and settlers rather than large purposefully built monuments. I wasn't sure if there was anything major I am just not aware of.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Quebec culture travels A LOT in France though; our singers, bands, filmmakers, play writers, etc. have a disproportionate impact on France relative to the size of Quebec.

It's true that Quebeckers are definitely North-Americans, for sure, but we are much more influenced culturally by Europe (and France in particular) than the average American would be. Another movie exemple: the big french blockbuster of 2017 was a comedy call Le Sens de la fête, which was released october 4th in France. That movie is released this week on 13 screens across Quebec with adds on TV, etc. When the same movie will open in New York or Toronto (if it does), it will be on one screen and release as an "art movie" or a "foreign movie". In quebec, it's being release as a big commercial movie.

100% d'accord.
Cependant je fait une grande distinction entre ''Style de vie'' et ''Échanges culturels''. Ce dernier n'influence en rien notre style de vie Nord-Américain malgré des échanges culturels et humains intenses entre le Québec et la France.

Par contre, je suis d'accord pour dire que nous avons plus d'influences Européennes que la majorité du continent, mais je ne crois pas que ce soit à cause de notre langue ou de nos liens avec la France. Je crois que ça a plutôt rapport au fait que nous habitons dans un secteur historique en Amérique qui remonte à sa fondation, au même titre que la Nouvelle-Angleterre pour les États-Unis.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

A final point. Quebec's strong economy and booming tech sector are probably accelerating the flow of people to that province. Does Quebec's economy get a lot of press in France?

Yes it does. Increasingly so.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I've only been to Paris and I found there was very little Quebec/Canada stuff there. Much less than in the UK. In one sense that's understandable since Canada hasn't been a French colony for centuries, but in another it's remarkable how indifferent France has been at times toward its only "daughter" colony, the one place in the world where French settlers thrived and built a large and lasting society on their own. And France was generally much less successful at building a worldwide empire than the UK.

I mentioned La Rochelle because I know people who have done some Quebec-settler-themed trips, looking at places that have historical significance. Lots of 17th century stuff still exists but you might find little plaques about the old explorers and settlers rather than large purposefully built monuments. I wasn't sure if there was anything major I am just not aware of.

You guys are right. There isn't much that recognizes us in a grandiose way, although tons of French cities and towns have a Place du Québec and a Place de l'Acadie. That's about as far as French officialdom goes in terms of permanent recognition.

If you want to find references to us in France the best place is in their versions of "People" magazine and such, or on entertainment/talk shows.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

You sure about the driving on the left bit. Newfoundland switched in 1947 so any drivers would be almost 90 now.

Mrs. Brown's Boys is pretty low brow isn't it. Personally I can't stand it. Too slapstick based. If you want working class humour with a very UK perspective check out the Royle Family based in a location not too far from Dev's and the Rovers and Nick's Bistro and the Kabin.

I do like the Office UK but my all time favourite UK comedy is Alan Partridge and League of Gentlemen which was filmed less than 5 km from where I lived as a kid and the look of the towns are almost identical.

It is low brow, but they leave in the bloopers and that's amazing. And it's just so lovely to hear our expressions on television - they use "sure" the same way, they use "after" to form past tense. There's something really lovely and familiar about it. And they're all very entertaining people. His wife (plays his daughter on the show) is one of my favourite people on television. Her facial expressions crack me up.

• Video Link

Royle Family is great too - especially the idea of it where it's basically all just in that one room. "Who's that?" "Don't worry about it!" or whatever, etc.

Haven't seen any of the others. I can't stand The Office. I don't mind slow burners and stupid comedy, I love Ab Fab for example, but The Office just irritates me.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I would think that Quebec has more ties to France than English Canada to the UK simply because France is the dominant cultural, geopolitical and economic powerhouse of the French-speaking world and the UK is no longer that for the English-speaking world.

Also, despite its size difference, I think Quebec may have more weight in the French-speaking world than English Canada does in the English-speaking world. Again, this is not because English Canada is a cultural backwater, but because the "First World Francophonie" is relatively small: France (and her overseas depts), Quebec + Francophone ROC, Wallonia, French Switzerland (combined population 75 million).

Quebec/French Canada is also France's only "human" colony, in the sense that it has lots of people of French origin still speaking the language and retaining at least a few traits of the old country.

The UK arguably has four countries like this: Canada, Australia, New Zealand and of course the U.S.

Getting to the OP, I am repeating myself from years ago but I find that the UK and French linkages are going in the opposite direction.

For a long time Anglo-Canada was way more linked to the UK than the Québécois were. We were totally off the French's radar until around the 1960s and even then things started off very slowly. But the linkages have grown rapidly ever since. At a similar to how the linkages between Anglo-Canada and the UK have decreased, with more or less equal parts of increased assertiveness of a Canadian identity and of course ever-growing cultural dovetailing with the U.S.

Just to give a very banal example, it's not uncommon for Quebec media these days to wish a happy national fête to "our French cousins" on July 14th. If you're paying attention to the media in Quebec on July 14th you can't NOT know that it is France's national holiday.

The anglo media in Canada do not do this for the UK. They also don't do this as systematically for the U.S. July 4 holiday either, although most Canadians are aware of it by virtue of being tuned in to U.S. media.

But for July 14, you don't have to be tuned in to French media to know about it - the Quebec media will let you know, don't worry.

Anyway, just one example. There are others.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Trump gets much more media attention in Quebec than Macron, obviously, for various good reasons (he can affect us much more than Macron can: he can affect our ability to cross the border; he can affect our trade; he can affect the world by nuking North Korea; etc.)

Trump is also a more colourful, caricatural, controversial personnage.

It would be interesting to put a Jean-Marie Le Pen (or worse) in power in Paris and Al Gore or John Kerry in power in DC and see what would happen in terms of our focus here.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If you want to find references to us in France the best place is in their versions of "People" magazine and such, or on entertainment/talk shows.

There happened to be giant "s'installer au Canada" magazine ads when I was there. They had a picture of the Rocky mountains. Hopefully they explain inside how that setting is not representative of typical areas Canadians live in.

They also said "de Québec à Vancouver", which is slightly annoying but also surprising in that they acknowledged that you might move from France to somewhere in Canada other than Quebec.