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  #181  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 7:52 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by 2000_Watts View Post

If people WHO LIVE IN DETROIT claim Windsor, ON as part of Detroit, then it's part of Detroit REGARDLESS of what someone online says from hundreds of miles away.
That's pretty bizarre logic.

I claim that Tokyo is part of NYC, therefore this is fact. Anyone who is "hundreds of miles away" cannot object.
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  #182  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 7:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 2000_Watts View Post
LOL People kill me with trying to tell people of a particular city how they should identify THEMSELVES...

If people WHO LIVE IN DETROIT claim Windsor, ON as part of Detroit, then it's part of Detroit REGARDLESS of what someone online says from hundreds of miles away.

..
Wouldn't the people who live in Windsor actually be the ones who have the final say in the matter?
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  #183  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 8:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
yes, montreal was perceived as canada's alpha city even long after it was in fact so.

one of the things that probably aided that perception lag was montreal's much more exotic french allure.

to many americans, toronto was like any other great lakes city, just without the obligatory big black ghetto full of violence and despair, whereas montreal was seen as a truly foreign city right on our nation's doorstep.
While it's definitely fading Montreal still has a decent amount of "legacy prestige" that leads a lot of people to believe that it's still of comparable size to Toronto. When in fact Toronto (metro) has two million more people. Basically, the population advantage that Toronto has is half of Montreal's total population.

But as you say Montreal benefits from its obvious outlier status that makes it stand out in this part of the world. It also has had (Olympics, Expo) or has (Formula 1 Grand Prix, the national "Open" tennis* tourney, etc.) things that contribute to a city's global renown.

*Shared with Toronto, with the men and women alternating cities every year.
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  #184  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 8:18 PM
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I'm old enough to remember when Montreal was "thee" premiere city in Canada (even Anglo Canada), with Toronto being a close second. .The successful Expo 67 (slightly before my time), having a MLB before Toronto, the 76 Olympics and the great Habs dynasties of the 70's had everything to do with that..Then, of course the flip flop in the mid 70's happened. Toronto is now well ahead both in Canada (overall) and at the world stage.

I guess we can see this potentially happen in Australia.

on a micro level, it would be like Cincinnati taking over Columbus or Cleveland maybe?
I thought it already happened: Melbourne used to be the top city in Australia, and now Sydney is. Melbourne hosted the Summer Olympics first, and was the national capital, etc.
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  #185  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
I thought it already happened: Melbourne used to be the top city in Australia, and now Sydney is. Melbourne hosted the Summer Olympics first, and was the national capital, etc.
Yeah but they're poised to switch places again apparently.
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  #186  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 8:33 PM
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^ and if you go back to australia's earliest colonial days, sydney was where the first permanent european settlement (prison colony) was set up on the australian continent, and was thus australia's very first city.

so sydney and melbourne have been flip-flopping for some time.
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  #187  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah but they're poised to switch places again apparently.
That's news to me. Don't most intercontinental flights go to/come from Sydney? Where are the stock exchanges and financial sectors of Australia? From my understanding, Canada's primary city shifted to Toronto mainly when the finance sector moved there from Montreal, and then Pearson Airport took it from there and became the primary first landing spot in Canada for international flights.
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  #188  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 9:23 PM
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I’m a xennial (cringe) and for us Montreal was always “the city” in Canada. But probably a lot of that has to do with being from Boston.
I suspect this is regional. It seems like the coastal northeastern U.S. is more aware of Montreal than Toronto. I think it's because Montreal is easier to get to from here than it is from other parts of the U.S.
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  #189  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I suspect this is regional. It seems like the coastal northeastern U.S. is more aware of Montreal than Toronto. I think it's because Montreal is easier to get to from here than it is from other parts of the U.S.
It is also a more exotic getaway for US visitors living on the East Coast. The fact that French is the primary language and the food tends to have a French accent is very appealing to visitors. Toronto does not have the same appeal.
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  #190  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
That's news to me. Don't most intercontinental flights go to/come from Sydney? Where are the stock exchanges and financial sectors of Australia? From my understanding, Canada's primary city shifted to Toronto mainly when the finance sector moved there from Montreal, and then Pearson Airport took it from there and became the primary first landing spot in Canada for international flights.
Melbourne metro area is gaining on the Sydney metro area population, they are already very similar and in a few years Melbourne might indeed overtake Sydney.

Sydney does have more international flights, and the main stock exchange, but its not a massive difference between the two cities I think.
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  #191  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
I thought it already happened: Melbourne used to be the top city in Australia, and now Sydney is. Melbourne hosted the Summer Olympics first, and was the national capital, etc.
Rio de Janeiro was the primary city in Brazil for a long time but Sao Paulo has left it in the dust since then.

But even there where there is a very big gap today I think Rio still has stronger international recognition around the globe.
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  #192  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I suspect this is regional. It seems like the coastal northeastern U.S. is more aware of Montreal than Toronto. I think it's because Montreal is easier to get to from here than it is from other parts of the U.S.
For New England in particular this is true, but there’s also a long history between Montreal / Quebec and Boston / New England. French Canadians aren’t exotic or even foreign; they own a quarter of all the summer properties in coastal Maine and Cape Cod (it seems). There’s Habs vs B’s, arguably the best NHL rivalry of all time. Lots of top students from New England view McGill as a Brown or Columbia peer. And Massachusetts did, you know, invade Quebec a few times - never successfully, mind you.

When I was in high school, Montreal was a weekend trip for 18 year olds. You could drive there in 6 hours, and at the time the drinking age was 18.
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  #193  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
For New England in particular this is true, but there’s also a long history between Montreal / Quebec and Boston / New England. French Canadians aren’t exotic or even foreign; they own a quarter of all the summer properties in coastal Maine and Cape Cod (it seems). There’s Habs vs B’s, arguably the best NHL rivalry of all time. Lots of top students from New England view McGill as a Brown or Columbia peer. And Massachusetts did, you know, invade Quebec a few times - never successfully, mind you.

When I was in high school, Montreal was a weekend trip for 18 year olds. You could drive there in 6 hours, and at the time the drinking age was 18.
The drinking age is still 18 here.

And the girls are friendlier here. That's the wine and not the dad talking.
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  #194  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 2:45 AM
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For the US I will use regions.
NE: DC
South: Atlanta
Midwest: Detroit
West: San Francisco

Germany: Hamburg
France: Lyon
Italy: Rome
UK: Manchester
Australia: Melbourne
Japan: Osaka
China: Beijing
Mexico: Guadalajara
Brazil: Rio
India: Delhi
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  #195  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Lots of top students from New England view McGill as a Brown or Columbia peer.
The disproportionate interest of American students in McGill vs. other Canadian cities' schools seems to be a strong example of the "legacy" status of Montreal as Canada's largest city.

Compare the relative lack of interest in other Canadian schools by Americans like UBC, UofT etc. relative to McGill even though UofT (Toronto's most famous school) and McGill (Montreal's most famous school) are nearly equal in many university rankings, and in some more recent years of ranking Toronto comes on top. Yes, I heard the whole "lots of Americans are considering Canadian schools after Trump" but so far the numbers are small.

UofT is known for lots of international students (many Asians but also Middle Easterners, Europeans, Latin Americans) but way less Americans. UBC is known for lots of Chinese international students but few Americans from the nearby West Coast.

For some reason, McGill draws American students from New England/the East Coast way more than UofT draws any Midwestern US students or UBC draws West Coast Americans.

It must be doing something right aside from just continuing the legacy of being in Canada's formerly largest city.
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  #196  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by liat91 View Post
For the US I will use regions.
NE: DC
South: Atlanta
Midwest: Detroit
West: San Francisco

Germany: Hamburg
France: Lyon
Italy: Rome
UK: Manchester
Australia: Melbourne
Japan: Osaka
China: Beijing
Mexico: Guadalajara
Brazil: Rio
India: Delhi
I have doubts about Rome and Rio being number twos. It could be argued they are co-number-1s. Aside from population bean-counting.

At least no one I know would call them also-rans.
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  #197  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 5:16 AM
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São Paulo is almost twice as big as Rio. In fact, it’s almost the exact difference as between NYC and LA.
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  #198  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 5:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
The disproportionate interest of American students in McGill vs. other Canadian cities' schools seems to be a strong example of the "legacy" status of Montreal as Canada's largest city.
I’m sure it has nothing to do with this. The reputation and esteem in which a school is held has nothing to do with the population of the city it’s in. Boston has more highly regarded universities than NY or LA and that might always be the case. McGill is just a more highly regarded university than the University of Toronto, and I’ve never even heard of UBC (presumably University of British Columbia).
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  #199  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 5:32 AM
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I’m sure it has nothing to do with this. The reputation and esteem in which a school is held has nothing to do with the population of the city it’s in. Boston has more highly regarded universities than NY or LA and that might always be the case. McGill is just a more highly regarded university than the University of Toronto, and I’ve never even heard of UBC (presumably University of British Columbia).
Many rankings place the University of Toronto neck-and-neck with McGill now (and the race has been close for a decade or two now, especially as the University of Toronto started getting better funding and resources). But the truth is McGill dominated in almost all the 20th century so that's fair, but it's not so clear cut who's the winner now. The other thing is UofT's rise is mostly in fields like STEM, engineering etc. and more "practical" fields, which may explain why the perception seems that it punches under its weight in "image".

Interesting that foreign students like Chinese, Indians are more aware of Ontario universities like the U of Toronto, Waterloo etc. because of this focus (since many of their students study these subjects when they come as internationals) than Americans.

I think the University of Toronto has "caught up" in image in its own country, for those who are deciding between Canadian schools in Canada, but McGill's has still the longer, richer, history, pedigree and reputation to outsiders.

Last edited by Capsicum; Jun 18, 2019 at 5:43 AM.
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  #200  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2019, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
São Paulo is almost twice as big as Rio. In fact, it’s almost the exact difference as between NYC and LA.
NYC and LA are near equals these days. And if Manhattan (and the Bronx) deannexed that major city and county with its own villages and towns (like Flushing and LI City) on Long Island, New York suddenly wouldn't be any bigger than LA.
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