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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2013, 12:17 PM
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I heard news that the City has just put this out as a Design-Build project instead of going with any of the Architect's proposals. Has anyone heard anything about this?
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2013, 12:28 PM
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I heard news that the City has just put this out as a Design-Build project instead of going with any of the Architect's proposals. Has anyone heard anything about this?
The renderings posted here were really nothing more than part of a visioning exercise. The last I heard was that the city had issued a "request for qualifications" from developers and this could have been structured as a design/build type of thing....
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  #23  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2013, 7:14 PM
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Interesting article on the CBC:

Why funding new sports stadiums can be a losing bet
Building stadiums and arenas have little economic benefits for cities, research shows

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...iums-cost.html
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  #24  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2013, 8:31 PM
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I read this article too.

There is no question that arenas and stadia can be overbuilt and can result in major fiscal embarrassment for their respective political jurisdictions, especially if things go overboard and they become architectural masterpieces or sports shrines. This sort of situation obviously should be avoided.

The fact remains however that the coliseum needs to be replaced. The roof is too low for major touring bands and their staging. The acoustics of the coliseum suck big time. The building also has essentially non existent A/C and this is a major problem for curling and hockey playoffs that can extend well into the late spring. If you put 7,000 sweaty people in there in late May, the ice can start to get soft pretty quick and it can be hard to see what's going on with all the ice fog in the air!

Another issue is ice time availability for the Wildcats during the QMJHL playoffs. The coliseum is heavily booked with trade shows in the late winter and the spring and this has caused major scheduling problems if the Cats make a deep playoff run. God forbid if the Miracles also had a successful playoff season!

The existing infrastructure is old and capacity issues are becoming more and more problematic every single year. We need a new arena. That is self evident. It is also obvious that it should be built downtown in order to maximize economic benefit and to kickstart redevelopment in the core.

A new events centre must be built. It is important that we are prudent in what is constructed. It doesn't need to be an architectural masterpiece, but it should be "right sized" so that it can serve as an appropriate hockey venue for the playoff crowds and is also able to attract major touring acts. I think 10,000 seats is about right.

It is also important to realize that we are talking about much more than a rink here. We are talking about a mixed use development that will give the critical mass needed to stimulate years of future growth in the west end of downtown. Components could include retail, restaurants, condos, apartments, a transit hub, a small convention centre and possibly a new civic library. In the end, the arena itself may be no more than half of the development and perhaps lots less.

The CBC article makes good points, but in many ways, it misses the point as far as our proposed events centre is concerned......
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  #25  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2013, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pierremoncton View Post
Interesting article on the CBC:

Why funding new sports stadiums can be a losing bet
Building stadiums and arenas have little economic benefits for cities, research shows

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...iums-cost.html
They wouldn't be a losing bet, if municipalities and provinces weren't also wasting money subsidising suburbs, towns, and villages with roads, water/sewer, schools, hospitals, police and fire protection, for which their low-density tax revenues do not come close to paying...

I'm not going to support the rhetorical talking point of 'a downtown events centre must be built' -- because, clearly, it doesn't. What does have to happen is an inversion of Moncton's economic growth. It must turn inward, so the City may use the infrastructure it already has, so that growth in Moncton doesn't necessitate putting more roads and public services on the credit card.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 1:08 PM
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I was watching some of the World Figure Skating Championships on TV the other night.

The event is being held at the Budweiser Gardens in London Ontario. This is a facility held up by many as an example to emulate for our own proposed downtown events centre.

I must admit that the arena seems very impressive, with a full second tier of seating around the entire ice surface and it appears to have excellent sight lines throughout. Apparently the seating capacity for the arena in 9,090 for ice hockey, but somewhat greater for other events. On TV, it looks much bigger than it's stated size, almost a mini Air Canada Centre.....

I do think that this is a facility that we should use as an example for our own downtown centre. It has apparently been very successful at attracting major events and has been an engine for downtown revitalization in London.

The website is http://www.budweisergardens.com/

There are integrated bars and restaurants in the facility. With our own Molson/Coors brewery in town, I wonder what the potential is here for major tie ins, corporate support and for naming rights.....
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 2:20 PM
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Yes, the Budweiser Gardens is the formerly known John Labatt Centre, which we have already made suggestions on this site last year, which would be a good model for the Moncton Downtown Events Centre.

I even made this little things...'memba! I took the Labatt Centre and dropped in nicely in this spot.

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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I was watching some of the World Figure Skating Championships on TV the other night.

The event is being held at the Budweiser Gardens in London Ontario. This is a facility held up by many as an example to emulate for our own proposed downtown events centre.

I must admit that the arena seems very impressive, with a full second tier of seating around the entire ice surface and it appears to have excellent sight lines throughout. Apparently the seating capacity for the arena in 9,090 for ice hockey, but somewhat greater for other events. On TV, it looks much bigger than it's stated size, almost a mini Air Canada Centre.....

I do think that this is a facility that we should use as an example for our own downtown centre. It has apparently been very successful at attracting major events and has been an engine for downtown revitalization in London.

The website is http://www.budweisergardens.com/

There are integrated bars and restaurants in the facility. With our own Molson/Coors brewery in town, I wonder what the potential is here for major tie ins, corporate support and for naming rights.....

I looked this up on wikipedia and it states the building was completed in 2002 at a cost of $42,000,000 plus $10,000,000 for the land. If Moncton ends up building an arena with less than 10,000 seats, I have to say I think this is an excellent design. Despite its size, it has a large stadium look to it.

Looking forward to any developments on the downtown events center in 2013!
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 2:59 PM
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Yes, I remember your proposal very well Budyser!



Back when we were discussing the proposed events centre on the main Moncton thread, and before the city optioned the Highfield Square site, the area behind Assomption Place was a legitimate contender as a site for the events centre, and a favourite candidate amongst many members on the forum.

I still think that in some ways, this location would have done more for densification of the core and creating a true downtown focus than the Highfield Square site, but it was always a dilemma. The Highfield Square site will be more versatile and will certainly rejuvenate the west end of downtown......
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2013, 2:44 PM
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And speaking of the Budweiser Gardens, News91.9 published this yesterday...

http://www.news919.com/2013/03/15/sy...ncton-planned/

Symposium on future of downtown Moncton planned

Reps from London, Ont. will discuss entertainment centre’s affects in their community

Tara Clow Mar 15, 2013 01:49:32 PM

MONCTON, N.B. – The future of downtown Moncton will be the focus of a symposium planned for next month.

Downtown Moncton Centre-ville Inc. has invited representatives from London, Ontario to help provide details on their struggles and what they gained from building an entertainment centre ten years ago.

President Louis Leger says DMCI shares their vision.

“We have invited them to share with us first of all, how they went about building their centre, and what the centre has done. They have almost doubled the value of their downtown.”

The City of Moncton has not signed on the dotted line for a downtown entertainment centre just yet.

They have until June to do so, but Leger says this might help give them the extra push to move ahead.

The symposium is planned for the morning of April 17th.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2013, 2:51 PM
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Speaking of the Budweiser Gardens in London......

Downtown Moncton Centreville has announced a community symposium to be held at 7:30 AM on Wednesday April 17th at the Capitol Theatre. The guest speakers will be the director of the Budweiser Gardens and the executive director of Downtown London Inc.

They will be speaking on how transformative the London events centre has been for their downtown since it opened in 2002. Apparently downtown tax valuation in London has doubled in the last 10 years, in large part due to the presence of this important facility.

Despite the ungodly hour, everyone is invited to attend this symposium.......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also:

The deadline for the request for qualifications for the new events centre passed yesterday. Apparently "multiple proposals" were received. City hall staffers will now review the proposals in detail and those companies that are felt to be qualified will be invited to submit a formal RFP for the project. if the city decides to proceed, this RFP will likely be issued in the fall.

The option for the city to buy the Highfield Square property will expire in June. A decision on whether to proceed with the purchase is expected in May.

Louis Leger, the president of DMCI is pressuring the city administration to proceed quickly with all this. According to him, several "very significant projects" on adjacent pieces of property are awaiting a formal announcement by the city as to it's intentions.

As had been stated before, the events centre itself might be $100-150M, but by proceeding, an additional $100-150M of private investment might also be stimulated by this project.

Downtown Saint John will soon be transformed by the redevelopment of the coast guard site. The Moncton downtown events centre will be our own equivalent project. This is a critical time for our city. We can not let this opportunity pass by.....

EDIT - sorry Budyser, I see that you beat me to it by several minutes. If I had seen your post, I would have modified mine somewhat. I didn't mean to steal your thunder.....
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Mar 16, 2013 at 3:22 PM.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2013, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Louis Leger, the president of DMCI is pressuring the city administration to proceed quickly with all this. According to him, several "very significant projects" on adjacent pieces of property are awaiting a formal announcement by the city as to it's intentions.

As had been stated before, the events centre itself might be $100-150M, but by proceeding, an additional $100-150M of private investment might also be stimulated by this project.

Downtown Saint John will soon be transformed by the redevelopment of the coast guard site. The Moncton downtown events centre will be our own equivalent project. This is a critical time for our city. We can not let this opportunity pass by.....
Speculation makes for a weak proposal. Hoping for an equal level of spin-off investments is, perhaps, wishful thinking. If Louis Leger wanted to correct this, and make a more serious assertion for why the downtown events centre should be built, he could easily be more forthcoming with numbers.

I support this downtown development, but I am also aware of the economic environment in which this events centre must try to survive after all of this money is spent on building it.

Residential and commercial development is still going to favour chearper, non-downtown site options. The City of Moncton still hasn't implemented a plan for enforcing sustainable development practices. Business park and suburban expansion is literally an economic nightmare in Moncton. This downtown events centre requires a steady pace of residential and commercial growth around it in order to make the centre financially solvent, to avoid any need for municipal and provincial (federal) subsidies, which is a real possibility if the downtown cannot attract enough residents to produce regular users of this facility.

I'm nervous about the foundational steps that haven't been taken to support this centre in the long-term. I don't except the frivolous Times&Transcript to cover any of this, but I hope to god that the CBC will...
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 3:52 PM
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Moncton multipurpose complex inches closer to reality

Pedway linking former Highfield Square mall to federal building torn down
CBC News Posted: Mar 18, 2013 12:21 PM AT Last Updated: Mar 18, 2013 12:19 PM AT


Main Street looks different after the Highfield Square pedway was torn down over the weekend. (Kate Letterick/CBC)

Highfield Square closing The pedway linking Highfield Square with the federal building in Moncton was torn down over the weekend, but the former mall won't be demolished any time soon, says the mayor.

The city still has a lot of work left to do in its quest to build a multipurpose sports and entertainment centre at the site first, said George LeBlanc.

That includes buying the Highfield Square land on Main Street, securing funding for the project and putting out a request for proposals, he said.

"That's where companies who have made the shortlist will have an opportunity to put their proposals forward to the city to define what they can do and what could be contemplated in a downtown center and so there's significant milestones that are coming up that we'll be looking at," said LeBlanc.

The removal of the pedway has got people talking about the project again, said Anne Poirier Basque, the executive director of Downtown Moncton.

"It certainly means that there's movement and that there is change coming to our downtown," she said.

The city hit a small milestone in the project on Friday with the deadline for request for qualifications to see which companies are interested in the project.

If the project goes ahead as planned, it's not expected to open before 2017.

The Highfield Square location was selected as the best option for a new multipurpose complex last year, based on site characteristics, location and transportation; costs of acquiring development land; urban context and physical elements; and economic impact and synergy with the downtown.

The former mall closed in the fall.

A new downtown event centre could cost $100 million to construct, city officials have said.

Moncton politicians have been talking about replacing the aging Moncton Coliseum for several years.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 4:02 PM
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I looked this up on wikipedia and it states the building was completed in 2002 at a cost of $42,000,000 plus $10,000,000 for the land. If Moncton ends up building an arena with less than 10,000 seats, I have to say I think this is an excellent design. Despite its size, it has a large stadium look to it.

Looking forward to any developments on the downtown events center in 2013!
That seems really cheap. Why is Moncton's proposal more than double the cost, for what seems to be a comparable bulding? Maybe it's not?? I've never been to Budweiser Gardens.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 4:14 PM
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That seems really cheap. Why is Moncton's proposal more than double the cost, for what seems to be a comparable bulding? Maybe it's not?? I've never been to Budweiser Gardens.
Budweiser Garden opened in 2002. They likely won't be breaking ground in Moncton until 2016 at the earliest. That's 14 years worth of inflation. I imagine that's the principle reason for the cost discrepancy.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 4:18 PM
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Budweiser Garden opened in 2002. They likely won't be breaking ground in Moncton until 2016 at the earliest. That's 14 years worth of inflation. I imagine that's the principle reason for the cost discrepancy.
According to this inflation calculator $52 million (42+10) would equal $64 million in 2013 money. So, there's $36 still missing somewhere.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 4:39 PM
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According to this inflation calculator $52 million (42+10) would equal $64 million in 2013 money. So, there's $36 still missing somewhere.
I think the inflation rate for construction materials and labour is a tad higher than the general inflation rate....

Being in health care, I know that our inflation rate is a lot higher than the general rate.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 11:35 PM
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Someone should definitely post this in the Canada section! How exciting! A arena that big could have AHL!

Is it an arena/convention centre mix deal?
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 1:28 AM
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Someone should definitely post this in the Canada section! How exciting! A arena that big could have AHL!

Is it an arena/convention centre mix deal?
Actually, Moncton did have an AHL team for a long time. The Moncton Hawks played at the current coliseum and actually won the Calder Cup one year. They moved on in the early 1990's and were replaced by the Moncton Wildcats of the QMJHL. The Cats have also been successful, having been to the Memorial Cup twice.

This is proposed as being a multifunction centre, and might possibly have a small comvention centre associated with it. Retail, restaurants, pubs, relocation of the civic library, a hotel and a new transit hub have also been suggested.

This is still early days and nobody knows exactly what will be included in the project yet, but there seems to be a consensus that the minimum seating capacity should be 10,000.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 1:30 AM
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Someone should definitely post this in the Canada section! How exciting! A arena that big could have AHL!

Is it an arena/convention centre mix deal?
I think it has been posted in the Canada section as this thing has been floating around for some time... and it's still far from a done deal. One of the proposals (by Architects 4), which is my personal favorite, does include some convention space. I'm not sure about the others.

It would be hugely transformative for the west end of downtown as all proposals contain significant residential and commercial components. Downtown is currently pretty stagnant and seeing minimal development in comparison with the suburban areas. The hope is that this would kick start a renewal in the area by making it more appealing for other developments and investments opportunities.

Last edited by NBNYer; Mar 19, 2013 at 10:13 AM.
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