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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by drumz0rz View Post
Jersey City is definitely pro-development. They're wise to realize that the market is waking up to the fact that JC is closer to Manhattan than most of the outer boroughs. People (millennials mostly) are flocking to the city, so why not try to capture as much of that as possible?

The trade off is that they're giving out multi-year tax abatements to the developers so they're bringing in lots of new residents without increasing the tax revenue to fully support them all. The good news is that they have scaled down the length yet it hasn't seemed to slow developers down at all.
Yeah, the tax abatements are a hot topic, and I'm not sure how I feel about them.

The theory is that property taxes in New Jersey are so high that tax abatements are a necessity for development to occur, especially in an up and coming area like Journal Square.

Some of the arguments in favor of abatements are:
The regulatory and tax environment is so burdensome in NJ that private development would never happened on its own.
Therefore, areas would still be in decline because it's unable to attract private investment, and
It's better to collect partial taxes on a tax abated property than next to nothing at all from vacant land.

On the flip side, how much subsidy is too much subsidy? Would a 20-year abatement instead of a 30-year really discourage development?
How do we know these aren't just windfalls to developers who know how to play the game.

Personally, I wish there would be a state law which promotes development but takes the municipal politics out of the deal. If you construct a new building, the taxes are automatically abated for x years. If you construct a new building in an area in need of redevelopment, your taxes are automatically abated for a longer period of time, y years.

Having each municipality come up with how long they want to abate each separate development proposal is just inviting so much abuse.

Specifically, for the Journal Squared development, even though much less taxes are collected because the property is abated, I wonder if what is collected still contributes more to city in taxes than it costs to service this development. For example:

Residents of this development are likely to be millennials without kids. This doesn't create an additional burden on the public schools. Waste disposal services will be paid for privately by the building, so the costs to the city to provide garbage trucks to handle the thousand or so residents will be nil. And so on...

In 30 years from now when all current tax abatements have expired, Jersey City is going to be sitting in a sweet place among NJ municipalities. The property tax burden from howmeoners will probably be among the lowest in the state thanks to the large tax base due to all these high-density luxury condos.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:40 PM
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I hope this will be a supertall. In any case this should be the showcase tower for Journal Square.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:48 PM
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There's going to be time when Jersey City (either at Downtown or at Journal Square) is going to get a 1,000+ ft tower within the next decade. It's amazing thinking that JC was once a mostly industrial city and in the last 20 years had made a complete 180 degree into a major financial center. I believe with all this growth going on in JC, Newark will eventually follow suit with it's own 1,000+ ft cluster of towers!!!
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2016, 12:42 AM
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Newark will eventually follow suit with it's own 1,000 ft cluster of towers!!!
I surely hope so. But even during this whole boom cycle, barely anything went up. Very little. We have the teachers village, Prudential Phase 1 and Phase 2 will start soon, but its very little compared to Jersey City. Hell, Hoboken grew more during that time.

I think Newarks problem is political. They city government is just corrupt and backwards. Theres infill in Ironbound, and smaller apartments going up along MLK and around University Heights, but nothing grandiose like JC, which is a shame because it has great transportation, and in terms of cost per sq-ft, its a bargain.
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  #25  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 8:45 PM
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Looks like the media picked this up. I gave SSP a few days heads start Also very positive to see this supported by the local councilperson. I considered him the least development friendly person on city council, but wow oh wow was I wrong. Jersey City has to have the most pro development city council in the country.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2..._under_pl.html

Plan would transform old Jersey Journal building in Jersey City
By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
February 04, 2016 at 2:50 PM, updated February 04, 2016 at 3:14 PM

JERSEY CITY — 30 Journal Square, formerly the longtime home of The Jersey Journal, would go through quite a metamorphosis under a plan set for adoption by the City Council as early as next week.

Much of the building would look the same, but a pedestrian walkway with retail shops on both sides would cut through the ground floor and lead to a 1,400-square-foot public plaza behind the building. Also behind the existing building would sit a massive residential tower facing Enos Place and Newkirk Street that would have no height restriction.

One thing that wouldn't change is the iconic Jersey Journal sign that sits atop 30 Journal Square. The plan would require developers to keep it.

The changes up for approval by the council are revisions to a Journal Square redevelopment plan. Specific plans for 30 Journal Square would still need to be approved by city planners.

Rich Boggiano, who represents Journal Square on the City Council, approves of the plan, saying no height restrictions would likely lead to a taller but thinner tower than current zoning laws allow. Boggiano said the developers are planning to build a tower about 60 stories high.

"It's a nice project," he said. "They're willing to put a park in there for the people."

Read the full article here: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2..._under_pl.html




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  #26  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 8:57 PM
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We also have two more development sites coming to Journal Square.

Quote:
Further west, developers are planning as many as 600 residential units on the former site of Puccini's on Broadway. One half-mile south of the PATH hub, nearly 1,000 units are planned for the old Mueller's pasta factory.
Mueller's Past Factory development
SSP thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=217624

Puccini's on Broadway development
This development is adjacent to the PATH line and there is a long standing rumor that a new PATH station, called Marion will be built west of Journal Square.

We should probably make a thread for Puccini redevelopment. There is one more development proposal behind the Lowe's Theater at Journal Square for a 45 and 12 story tower.
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  #27  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 9:17 PM
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One last thing...

Quote:
Boggiano said the developers are planning to build a tower about 60 stories high.
That's at the bottom end of the range for their density allowances. The site is approximately 50,000 sqft. The allowable density is 20 times the area of the lot. In addition, the development may take advantage of 4 additional floors outside the density cap if those floors are dedicated for office use. This is to encourage a mixed use development.

The maximum base of the building area is 27,000 sqft and a height of 65 ft. The maximum tower floor plate is 12,900 sqft with no height limit on the tower

Worst case scenario, the developer does not take advantage of the office density bonus:

50,000 sqft x 20 times density = 1,000,000 sqft of development rights
27,000 sqft x 6 floors = 162,000 sqft in the base
1,000,000 - 162,000 = 838,000 available for the tower
838,000 / 12,900 maximum tower floor plate = 64 floors
64 + 6 = 70 floors

Best case scenario:

Developer takes advantage of the 4 free floors exempt from the maximum density calculation. The base consists of 108,000 sqft of office space in 4 floors. The full density allowance can be allocated to the tower portion of the building.

1,000,000 allowable density / 12,900 maximum tower floor plate = ~77 floors.
77 tower floors on top of 4 floor base is 81 storys.

For possible height, the zoning requires the first floor to be 18ft tall and let's assume 12 feet per floor. 18ft first floor + 80 remaining floors x 12 feet a floor = 978ft. Mechanical space doesn't count towards the density limit. I say this one is within reach of super tall status depending on how much risk the developer is willing to take.

Aside from speculation, I think we can safely modify the thread title and move this one to 60 floors based on the statement from the local councilperson.
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  #28  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2016, 2:07 AM
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The city is now officially reports that 70 storys is now planned. Check out item 65 on the Journal Square map. http://data.jerseycitynj.gov/dataset...s-20160216.pdf. Expect this one to grow even taller in number of floors before all is said and done. This is one of the few places in North America where there is no height limit in the zoning.

The developer has a zoning incentive to combine lots so watch for land assemblage by Kushner, especially the building at 26 Journal Square. It will allow for even more development rights.

I'm gonna brag a little and say that I'm pleased that my early density calculations and assumptions were spot on!
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 2:59 PM
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It's now 72 floors.

Quote:
20. Case: P16-054 Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan with Deviations
Applicant: 30 Journal Square Partners LLC
Review Planner: Jeff Wenger, PP, AICP
Attorney: Eugene Paolino
Address: 30 Journal Square
Block: 10702 Lot: 4 & 6 - 15
Zone: Journal Square 2060 Redevelopment Plan
Description: Construction of new 72 story mixed use project with 741 residential units, 15,030sf of
retail, 96,602sf of office, and 741 parking spaces, and public plazas.
Deviation: Public plaza area and coverage, maximum office tower diagonal measurement,
maximum parking requirement, parking aisle dimensions.
Public meeting is tomorrow at 5:30pm at city hall. Come take a look at updating renderings and speak to the planning commission about advocating more types of bold developments like this.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 9:54 PM
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Good to see this on track.

72 floors is by no means a small project for JC.
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 12:50 AM
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Don't know the height for sure on this one, but I thought I heard a number that should make most of us happy. Not four digits but not too shabby either.

...And it's approved!

Last edited by C.; Aug 17, 2016 at 1:14 AM.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 1:14 AM
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^^^

Any schematic or rendering? YOu can usually approximate based on the diagram. Even with no figures, if its a similar diagram or design to 1 Journal Square, could be that this is 780' or so. I wonder if it will have a large base. The 15,030 sq-ft of retail is nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CIA View Post

...And it's approved!


Good day for JC!
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 1:33 AM
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The planning board was extremely impressed. No pics of the rendeings on this one. The developers were intentionally trying to obstruct the view of the renderings so that only the planning board could see. No matter, it's all public record, and I'm just going to request to view the whole tamale at the planning office tomorrow. Again, I may have misheard, but the number I heard for "elevation" was in the 900s. Please don't quote me on that, and I'll confirm tomorrow.

Something was also accomplished for Journal Square that I've been advocating forever. :-) The seed has been planted and it will grow.

There are many folks on the various forums want to see good quality development in Jersey City. Show up at the damn meetings and advocate that case.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 8:16 PM
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JERSEY CITY | 30 Journal Square Plaza | 799 FT | 72 FLOORS

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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 8:57 PM
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Hot damn.

Those terraces are a little weird, but I'll take it.

Killer height.

JS on fire!
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 8:58 PM
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For anyone trying to keep track, we now have three sets of 3 tower developments:

Journal Squared I - 562ft - 54 stories
Journal Squared II - 742ft - 70 stories
Journal Squared III - 635ft - 60 stories

URL Harborside I - 713ft - 69 stories
URL Harborside II - 713ft - 69 stories
URL Harborside III - 713ft - 69 stories

One Journal Square I - 700ft - 56 stories
One Journal Square II - 892ft - 79 stories
30 Journal Square - 799ft - 72 stories

By floors:

One Journal Square II - 892ft - 79 stories
30 Journal Square - 799ft - 72 stories
Journal Squared II - 742ft - 70 stories
URL Harborside I - 713ft - 69 stories
URL Harborside II - 713ft - 69 stories
URL Harborside III - 713ft - 69 stories
Journal Squared III - 635ft - 60 stories
One Journal Square I - 700ft - 56 stories
Journal Squared I - 562ft - 54 stories

By total height, including all buildings:


99 Hudson - 899ft - 79 stories - under construction
One Journal Square II - 892ft - 79 stories - approved
30 Journal Square - 799ft - 72 stories - approved
Goldman Sachs Tower - 781ft - 42 stories - built
Journal Squared II - 742ft - 70 stories - approved
URL Harborside I - 713ft - 69 stories - topped out
URL Harborside II - 713ft - 69 stories - approved
URL Harborside III - 713ft - 69 stories - approved
One Journal Square I - 700ft - 56 stories - approved
Journal Squared III - 635ft - 60 stories - approved
San Remo - 610ft? - 61 stories - proposed
Journal Squared I - 562ft - 54 stories - topped out
Merrill Lynch Building - 548ft - 42 stories - built
65 Bay Street (Trump II) - 535ft - 50 stories - topped out
Trump Plaza I - 532ft - 55 stories - built
Newport Tower - 521ft - 37 stories - built
33 Park I - 510ft - 44 stories - under construction
33 Park II - 510ft - 44 stories - approved
70 Columbus - 500ft - 50 stories - topped out
90 Columbus - 500ft - 50 stories - under construction
The Monaco I - 500ft - 50 stories - built
The Monaco II - 500ft - 50 stories - built
70 Greene - 500ft - 50 stories - built
77 Greene - 500ft - 50 stories - built
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 9:04 PM
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Re: New Rendering


This new rendering DOES NOT give justice to its real height. According to Emporis, 26JS is 180'. No way is this building at ~800' accurately depicted here. I could be way off, but it looks to me to be depicted at maybe 550-600' if that. This baby is gonna look HUGE!
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 9:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Re: New Rendering


This new rendering DOES NOT give justice to its real height. According to Emporis, 26JS is 180'. No way is this building at ~800' accurately depicted here. I could be way off, but it looks to me to be depicted at maybe 550-600' if that. This baby is gonna look HUGE!
I agree. Tower will be much taller than what's depicted in the rendering.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Re: New Rendering


This new rendering DOES NOT give justice to its real height. According to Emporis, 26JS is 180'. No way is this building at ~800' accurately depicted here. I could be way off, but it looks to me to be depicted at maybe 550-600' if that. This baby is gonna look HUGE!
The new buildings are going for some real height that will rival most cities in the US, it is a really bold move for an area that is basically void of any tall building until just recently. We are basically seeing a small old urban neighborhood reinvent itself.

There are some seriously big changes coming to Jersey City, it makes me happy to have actually lived on that side of the river for a couple years when my wife and I got the crazy idea of living in NYC. We got to really experience a part of the NYC metro that most New Yorkers don't even know exists. There are so much potential in Jersey City, and we are finally seeing that happen.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
[B]

By total height, including all buildings:


99 Hudson - 899ft - 79 stories - under construction
One Journal Square II - 892ft - 79 stories - approved
30 Journal Square - 799ft - 72 stories - approved
Goldman Sachs Tower - 781ft - 42 stories - built
Journal Squared II - 742ft - 70 stories - approved
URL Harborside I - 713ft - 69 stories - topped out
URL Harborside II - 713ft - 69 stories - approved
URL Harborside III - 713ft - 69 stories - approved
One Journal Square I - 700ft - 56 stories - approved
Journal Squared III - 635ft - 60 stories - approved
San Remo - 610ft? - 61 stories - proposed
Journal Squared I - 562ft - 54 stories - topped out
Merrill Lynch Building - 548ft - 42 stories - built
65 Bay Street (Trump II) - 535ft - 50 stories - topped out
Trump Plaza I - 532ft - 55 stories - built
Newport Tower - 521ft - 37 stories - built
33 Park I - 510ft - 44 stories - under construction
33 Park II - 510ft - 44 stories - approved
70 Columbus - 500ft - 50 stories - topped out
90 Columbus - 500ft - 50 stories - under construction
The Monaco I - 500ft - 50 stories - built
The Monaco II - 500ft - 50 stories - built
70 Greene - 500ft - 50 stories - built
77 Greene - 500ft - 50 stories - built
Pretty impressive for NYC's Taiwan. One day JC will fuse into the motherland.... one day..!!!

All in all, this is a good day for the metro period. Now we just need to get Newark on board.
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