HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1101  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 4:46 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 17,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
The downside to the bolded being that it's an incentive to perpetuate an unsustainable situation.

Sure, you need a lot more revenue per capita to provide decent level of services in remote outports, but I really don't think the correct way to address this problem is to use the public coffers to prop up these isolated areas to the point the level of services matches urban southern Ontario.
Isn't that basically the entire point of equalization? We could have had a federation in which the provinces are just in free competition with each other, but a choice was made decades ago and is now entrenched in the Constitution, that we do not chose to be that country. That said, whether we should have a system that offers even more support to arguably unsustainable levels of public services, I'd have my doubts.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1102  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 5:00 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 24,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Isn't that basically the entire point of equalization? We could have had a federation in which the provinces are just in free competition with each other, but a choice was made decades ago and is now entrenched in the Constitution, that we do not chose to be that country. That said, whether we should have a system that offers even more support to arguably unsustainable levels of public services, I'd have my doubts.
Considering the pitiful levels of public services that exist once you get a few hundred KM north of the US border, I'm not so sure that we've maxed anything out as yet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1103  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 5:03 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 17,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Considering the pitiful levels of public services that exist once you get a few hundred KM north of the US border, I'm not so sure that we've maxed anything out as yet.
Different dynamic than province to province comparisons, but fair point.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1104  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 5:23 PM
VANRIDERFAN's Avatar
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Of course it's not unique.

For example...

Back when I was a land army officer (yep, I was a colleague of yours for a few years in a different branch), the nickname for these common little vehicles:
http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/f...ules/lsvw.page

was "Véhicule Sans Limite de Réparation".

The Navy isn't the only branch of the CAF that's been crumbling.
OMG that is one horrible piece of shyte. I heard a funny story of one of these things in Afghanistan. It somehow made it out to a FOB and was intended to be used as a support vehicle for the patrols. The troops knew what a hindrance that piece of crap would be and they were very apprehensive of it leaving the compound. But God was smiling upon them when on the night before the patrol the Taliban decided to rocket attack the FOB and the LSVW took the brunt of the strikes and was destroyed. There was much rejoicing the next day as the troops went on patrol without their "asset".
Now if the Taliban was able to do proper recon and risk assessment, they would have left the LSVW alone.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1105  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 9:03 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
OMG that is one horrible piece of shyte. I heard a funny story of one of these things in Afghanistan. It somehow made it out to a FOB and was intended to be used as a support vehicle for the patrols. The troops knew what a hindrance that piece of crap would be and they were very apprehensive of it leaving the compound. But God was smiling upon them when on the night before the patrol the Taliban decided to rocket attack the FOB and the LSVW took the brunt of the strikes and was destroyed. There was much rejoicing the next day as the troops went on patrol without their "asset".
Now if the Taliban was able to do proper recon and risk assessment, they would have left the LSVW alone.
Our military could use about double the funding it currently gets. The bare-bones budgeting for the military is showing badly now - we're pushing the boundaries of equipment from the 1970s (destroyers, now retired) and 1980s (CF-18s) now. I think we still have some 1960s-era Sea Kings still about too.

There's a point where investment has to be made.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1106  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 9:07 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Doubtful. I mean, I could be persuaded with some numbers, but 20% of a few old boats and some sailors off the west coast are probably a pittance compared to the massive health, education and other social expenditures funded by equalization.
The total expenditure on the military is about ~$18-20 billion per year.

Context: The province of Ontario spent $61.3 billion on healthcare alone in 2018.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1107  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 9:15 PM
CanSpice's Avatar
CanSpice CanSpice is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 1,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
The total expenditure on the military is about ~$18-20 billion per year.

Context: The province of Ontario spent $61.3 billion on healthcare alone in 2018.
$25 billion, and the Liberals have promised to increase it to $32 billion. [source]
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1108  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 9:30 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanSpice View Post
$25 billion, and the Liberals have promised to increase it to $32 billion. [source]
That promise was made in 2017. Did the last budget increase defense spending?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1109  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 10:40 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 7,064
Every government in Ottawa has always promised to increase military spending and every single one has willingly missed the target. The only reason Canada even spends as little as it does is due to pressure from NATO allies.

Unlike many other countries, especially the US, military spending is a zero sum political game. Military spending in Canada is decidedly NOT a vote getter. No government will ever win any extra votes for increasing our defense budget and frankly if there is any political repercussions in Canada it would result in fewer votes. As much as Canadians feel that our military should meet our international obligations and provide the best equipment for our troops, they are not willing for governments to put their tax dollars where their own mouths are. Canadians would far rather see that money directed towards health/education/social/infrastructure than towards buying new helicopters or engaging in any new conflict.

I wouldn`t say Canadians are pacifists but defense spending in Canada is WAY down on our collective priority list and Ottawa`s reluctance to properly fund it is simply a reflection of that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1110  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 10:45 PM
VANRIDERFAN's Avatar
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
That promise was made in 2017. Did the last budget increase defense spending?
It has been, but we (DND) has been sending money back because we can't spend it all. That is due to the byzantine procurement process coupled with the lack of people to run projects coupled with the long lead times it takes to build major equipment and infrastructure. Its kind of a perfect storm (over the last 30 years or more). Now to add to the pain, all major spending on projects are put on hold once the election writ is dropped and if there is a change in government (or even the re-election of government) then major programs are reviewed or dropped as priorities change. (or if your political backers don't like what you are doing ala the Norman affair ).

FYI - The last 3 Sea Kings in the RCN/RCAF were retired 2 weekends ago. The Cyclones have now taken over the watch.

HAIL TO THE KING!!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1111  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 10:46 AM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is offline
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: See post below...
Posts: 28,269
This is a strange one...



Basically, Newfoundland and Labrador will not provide healthcare coverage for anyone who is from another province and studying here.

Quote:
Charlotte Morton might have been raised on another coast, but she married a Newfoundlander, works in St. John's and owns a house in Airport Heights.

She has no plans to move; Newfoundland is home for Morton in every sense of the word.

Except, that is, for one: Medical Care Plan policy won't consider Morton a resident, she says, leaving her struggling to access basic care.

"I work here, I pay taxes here, my children go to school here," Morton told CBC News. "I couldn't be more entrenched into the local community in terms of where my social network is, but because I was living in B.C. before I came here, I'm not considered a resident."
But British Columbia will not cover the healthcare expenses of anyone who does not intend to return to the province after graduation. So she is stuck either trying to convince B.C. to pay on a case-by-case basis, or travelling to B.C. for healthcare.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...rage-1.4931545

Seems like a good place for some sort of universal policy among the provinces.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1112  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 7:15 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,126
I once got stuck in a similar bureaucratic mess shortly after moving from NS to BC. They didn't record my NS health number on some paperwork so I got random collections type phone calls from the health authority here (theoretically I was insured the whole time). At one point they were telling me I owed different amounts of money (one procedure results in 2-3 bills for varying amounts) and NS said they paid while the health authority said they did not. Of course I never actually saw an original bill much less agreed to pay any amount for anything. I also wasn't convinced that it I personally paid the bill it would to away or that I would be reimbursed if it turned out it was paid multiple times.

Canada's health care insurance system is pretty messed up. It's fine in the usual case but very messy under the surface and if anything goes wrong it quickly gets Kafkaesque.
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1113  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 7:59 PM
jmt18325's Avatar
jmt18325 jmt18325 is offline
Heart of the Continent
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 6,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
The Newfoundland issue is caused by the fact that the system uses fiscal capacity/tax base. They look at how much each province would collect if its tax rates & tax policies matched the federal ones, and those provinces below the average generally get equalization designed to bring them up to that average (there are adjustment factors to account for resource revenue and such). So Quebec gets $13B because the calculations show that in the hypothetical scenario in which every province had the exact same tax rates, Quebec would earn less than the national average, to the tune of $13B less than it would if it matched that national average.

The reason for Newfoundland's problem is that its government expenditures and tax rates are both very high (because of its low population density, presumably). The system has a check in place to prevent equalization from ever resulting in the province having more revenue per capita than the poorest of the non-receiving provinces (to prevent equalization from ever making a government "richer" than a non-receiver). Right now, the "poorest of the non-receiving" is Ontario, so equalization cannot bring Newfoundland's revenue per capita above Ontario's. But NFLD's tax rates are so high than it's already above that even without any equalization.. so the province is excluded from the formula.

The way to add NFLD in would be to either remove that "check", or adjust the fiscal capacity calculations to factor in population density and urban-rural population gap (ie. change the formula to officially reflect that a province like NFLD needs more revenue per capita than Ontario to provide the same level of services).

The reality is different than that though - per capita, Newfoundland has a stronger economy that Ontario. That among other things results in higher fiscal capacity - here are the charts from one of my tweets:

https://twitter.com/canpolevents/sta...497261570?s=21
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1114  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2018, 10:05 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 17,183
PM appointed four more senators today - first time in eight years that all Senate seats have been filled.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1115  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 5:20 AM
rrskylar's Avatar
rrskylar rrskylar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WINNIPEG
Posts: 6,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
PM appointed four more senators today - first time in eight years that all Senate seats have been filled.
How in the hell can an unelected Senate have any credibility whatsoever, all patronage appointments to Liberal ass kissers!
__________________
The voice of reason
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1116  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 5:30 AM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
Editor
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 40,275
If the not credible, un-elected senate ever abolishes itself, will that be considered invalid because they weren't considered valid?

Also, a third of the senators are Conservative ass kissers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1117  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 10:04 AM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 13,676
So surprised that the ongoing issue with China now isn't a larger topic on this forum.

Second Canadian now detained.

I have been reading many articles on BBC, Turkish sites, CBC, etc... about this, and the articles themselves are pretty normal / standard, but what has surprised me is all of the comments / likes supporting China.

My question is, are these the counter culture types just doing their usual annoying thing (such as when they supported Cuba or Russia / making false equivalencies between Canada / western values and such dictatorship and authoritarian states) or are these largely Chinese bots working over time?

I also notice many commenting with Islamic names supporting China over Canada, which boggles the mind given how China may have around 1 million Chinese people of Islamic faith in *re-educational camps* currently. I checked out some of the profiles and they largely seem to be from Pakistan. Are these possibly a bunch of Uncle Toms (or Uncle Chongs if you want) given Pakistan and China's strange bedfellow relationship?

Also seems like a kick in the face given how many organizations and government programs in Canada have anti-islamaphobic campaigns while China is essentially trying to erase it from their country.
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/306346...h/29495547810/ and Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0...lhxXFxuAey_q6Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1118  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 1:56 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 17,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
How in the hell can an unelected Senate have any credibility whatsoever, all patronage appointments to Liberal ass kissers!
I'm hardly going to defend the Senate, but I do think the new iteration, showing greater independence, is an improvement.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1119  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 2:02 PM
JHikka's Avatar
JHikka JHikka is offline
Haru Urara
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
I have been reading many articles on BBC, Turkish sites, CBC, etc... about this, and the articles themselves are pretty normal / standard, but what has surprised me is all of the comments / likes supporting China.
Likely just bots or trolls. We're already being warned for the election next year that there will be influence-peddling online. It's gotten to the point now where I just assume most comments on any news website are bots/trolls set up to steer a narrative one way or another. I notice this on Twitter with the abnormal amount of likes/retweets/comments select people receive despite not actually having a following that large.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1120  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 2:04 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Paidge Beaulieu's Ex-BF
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 41,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I'm hardly going to defend the Senate, but I do think the new iteration, showing greater independence, is an improvement.
Didn't the Liberals under Justin Trudeau give the Senators they appoint the right to be "independent" (minded)?

They are all shown as "Independent" (and not "Liberal") when on the parliamentary website, CPAC and the news, do they not?
__________________
Got you thinking
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:52 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.