HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1221  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 11:09 PM
shreddog shreddog is offline
Beer me Captain
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In a Van down by the river
Posts: 4,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
Aren't the polls showing that the BC reform referendum will easily pass?
Nope.

...The poll shows that 31 per cent support the current first-past-the-post voting system, while 33 per cent support a proportional representation voting system.

Another 33 per cent of British Columbians polled remain undecided, and two per cent said they'd ignore the voting package altogether...


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...poll-1.4842089
42.6 % voted ....

61.3% for FPTP
38.7% for PR
__________________
It really is later than you think!

Do something about your future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1222  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 11:24 PM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Highway Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,539
That was some embarrassingly low voter turnout.
__________________
On s'casse, on s'cache.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1223  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 11:27 PM
240glt's Avatar
240glt 240glt is offline
HVAC guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: YEG -> -> -> Nelson BC
Posts: 11,297
Guess PR wasn’t as lit and off the hook as some were hoping
__________________
Short term pain for long term gain
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1224  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 11:32 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 17,097
Yeah, I'm surprised - I hadn't been following, but had the impression that the fix was in for PR.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1225  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 11:47 PM
lio45 lio45 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Colebrook, NH (as well as QC & FL)
Posts: 25,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
That was some embarrassingly low voter turnout.
That's because the question was asked in English only (below)... didn't reach Mandarin speakers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1226  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 12:05 AM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Highway Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,539
Oh yea is Legault gonna cash out on his promise of electoral reform or nah?
__________________
On s'casse, on s'cache.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1227  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 12:15 AM
lio45 lio45 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Colebrook, NH (as well as QC & FL)
Posts: 25,624
Hope he will. There's still four years to go before the next election, so there's time.

So far he's proving to be a more honest than average politician, so there's a decent chance he'll stick to that promise even though it would mean relinquishing power in four years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1228  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 12:48 AM
CanSpice's Avatar
CanSpice CanSpice is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 1,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
That's because the question was asked in English only (below)... didn't reach Mandarin speakers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1229  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 1:46 AM
GlassCity's Avatar
GlassCity GlassCity is offline
As seen in Winnipeg
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lower Mainland
Posts: 5,133
But for real, the question was worded terribly. What if my preferences go MMP > FPTP > DMP? PR has way too many diverse systems under its umbrella to treat them all as equal opponents to FPTP.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1230  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 1:54 AM
Dr Awesomesauce's Avatar
Dr Awesomesauce Dr Awesomesauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BEYOND THE OUTER RIM
Posts: 5,406
A ranked ballot system is interesting. I'm not sure precisely what it might look like if it were matched with Rep by Pop.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1231  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 2:06 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,450
This is what the 5th time electoral reform has lost a referendum. It seems to me proponents are running out of excuses.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1232  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 2:24 AM
GlassCity's Avatar
GlassCity GlassCity is offline
As seen in Winnipeg
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lower Mainland
Posts: 5,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
A ranked ballot system is interesting. I'm not sure precisely what it might look like if it were matched with Rep by Pop.
I actually just posted about that in the BC thread:

"The choice for a replacement for FPTP depends on your particular issue with it, in my opinion. One issue is its encouragement of strategic voting, the other is in disproportionate seat/vote ratios. I am much more concerned with strategic voting than with disproportionate seat counts, so I am personally more interested in a ranked ballot rather than a PR system. I want to be able to vote for the Greens, but I don't want minority governments in perpetuity.

Problem with the ranked ballot is that it would hurt both parties, so it'll never be proposed."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1233  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 4:19 AM
Dr Awesomesauce's Avatar
Dr Awesomesauce Dr Awesomesauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BEYOND THE OUTER RIM
Posts: 5,406
^I'm ignorant on this issue but, as far as I can tell, ranked ballots would, at the very least, give a really nice, three dimensional view of how Canadians align themselves along the political spectrum. For example, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the PPC will get very little of the popular vote. But I'd imagine that, if it were possible, many Canadians would place them second on their ballot. That information would be useful from a policy standpoint.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1234  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 4:47 AM
GlassCity's Avatar
GlassCity GlassCity is offline
As seen in Winnipeg
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lower Mainland
Posts: 5,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
^I'm ignorant on this issue but, as far as I can tell, ranked ballots would, at the very least, give a really nice, three dimensional view of how Canadians align themselves along the political spectrum. For example, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the PPC will get very little of the popular vote. But I'd imagine that, if it were possible, many Canadians would place them second on their ballot. That information would be useful from a policy standpoint.
For sure, and conversely, there may be people who would put PPC #1 that wouldn't vote for them now, because they'd feel their vote would be wasted.

And yeah, you'd get a more accurate perception of what the people really want. However, a lot of people see this as a bug. A benefit of fewer contending parties is that political extremes are moderated, both for politicians proposing policies and voters choosing who they like. How you see this really depends on how concerned you are about your own need to compromise I guess.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1235  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 2:17 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Paidge Beaulieu's Ex-BF
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 41,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
For sure, and conversely, there may be people who would put PPC #1 that wouldn't vote for them now, because they'd feel their vote would be wasted.

And yeah, you'd get a more accurate perception of what the people really want. However, a lot of people see this as a bug. A benefit of fewer contending parties is that political extremes are moderated, both for politicians proposing policies and voters choosing who they like. How you see this really depends on how concerned you are about your own need to compromise I guess.
Yeah, I don't think this was top-of-mind for many BC voters and it's unclear whether it could even materialize in BC/Canada, but a country like Israel gives a good example of how PR can give extremists a foot in the door.
__________________
Got you thinking
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1236  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 2:28 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is offline
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 19,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah, I don't think this was top-of-mind for many BC voters and it's unclear whether it could even materialize in BC/Canada, but a country like Israel gives a good example of how PR can give extremists a foot in the door.
Indeed, and any time a major party tips too far to the left or right, they tend to get smacked down by the (majority) of the voters. FPTP therefore tends to moderate politics (except in the USA), and that's because of their institutionalized two party system. There is a place for third (or multiple minor) parties in that this tends to siphon off the lunatic fringe. In a FPTP system, this lunatic vote is marginalized. In a proportional representation system on the other hand, the lunatics might have to get incorporated into a coalition in order to form a government. In this scenario then the lunatics will be involved in formulating policy (a bad thing). This is occurring right now in NB where the PC government only maintains power with the assistance of the fringe PA party.

The best type of voting system is where multiple parties are allowed, but FPTP chooses the winner. I am absolutely convinced of this........
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1237  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 3:07 PM
240glt's Avatar
240glt 240glt is offline
HVAC guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: YEG -> -> -> Nelson BC
Posts: 11,297
Seems that despite all the drum beating and rhetoric most Albertans do not want the province to separate

'Needle really hasn’t moved': Most Albertans don't want to separate, says new poll


As it turns out, Albertans want to stay put — the vast majority of them, anyway.

A new poll found 69 per cent of Albertans surveyed disagreed with the notion the province “would be better off as its own country.” This includes 58 per cent of respondents who strongly disagreed with separatist sentiments.

Only one-quarter of those surveyed indicated they viewed Alberta separatism in a positive light.

...

Three-in-five respondents indicated they considered themselves “Canadians first, and Albertans second,” while just under one-third called themselves “Albertans first, and Canadians second.”

The lack of support for separatism is not surprising, according to Mount Royal University political scientist Lori Williams.

She said there’s always been “a certain amount” of separatist sentiment across the province, but called the latest uptick “a knee-jerk reaction” to Alberta’s economic troubles

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-says-new-poll
__________________
Short term pain for long term gain
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1238  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 3:18 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 17,097
I'm sure there are surveys out there, but I wonder how Ontarians would respond to a question about whether they felt more Ontarian or Canadian? I suspect a substantial number would respond with a bit of confusion, or realize they had never thought of it before.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1239  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 3:24 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
This is what the 5th time electoral reform has lost a referendum. It seems to me proponents are running out of excuses.
As I posted elsewhere:
In 2004 BCers voted 57.7% in favour of switching to a Single Transferrable Vote system. But the BC Liberals set the bar artificially high at 60% (if they ever got 57.7% in an election they would have called it a landslide). As the party of the Rich, the BC Lieberals have a vested interested in seeing that a wealthy minority is able to control things in the province.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1240  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 3:59 AM
flar's Avatar
flar flar is online now
..........
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 12,760
It will take a lot to change the way our elections are run. As much as they complain, people are fairly satisfied with the current arrangement, mainly because parties have tended to govern toward the centre. Governing parties have mostly been respectful of the common consensus on many issues.

Hopefully we don't go down the US path with all the extremism and the common consensus falling apart. It's getting worse here, but not enough for people to want to fundamentally change the system.
__________________
RECENT PHOTOS:
TORONTOSAN FRANCISCO ROCHESTER, NYHAMILTONGODERICH, ON WHEATLEY, ONCOBOURG, ONLAS VEGASLOS ANGELES
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:45 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.