PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Brentsters]

Originally Posted by Wave

Has anyone been following the construction of the Rite Aid project at the corner of Centre & Craig in North Oakland.

It was pretty disappointing to me that such a prime parcel was being underutilized for a one story Rite Aid and surface parking. That location screams for a significant residential/retail project. It would've been quite an improvement usage-wise with at least two stories (preferably many more) of residential or office above. This location is right accross from the never-built Chlesea Apartment project which was a large several hundred unit apartment building that was killed during the downturn.

I recently drove by the Rite Aid site and steel is up and the general footprint of the project can be discerned from the steel skeleton that is up. Fortunately the setbacks are right along the corner and the parking is in the back and on the side, but it is still, in my opinion, not nearly the highest and best use for the site. It does seem like they have tried to create some height with some sort of taller section along the corner of Centre & Craig but the final product remains to be seen- I am not too optimistic.

Pretty sure there was some easement that really restricted this site.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I think he understood good urban planning, but he didn't achieve good urban planning in some cases. If ever a city could hope for a mayor focused on urban planning and development, it was Murphy. However, I think he was a bit before his time in Pittsburgh during the mid-90s to the mid-00s -- when the city was taking whatever it could get without too much requirement. A lot of compromises... maybe caving... were made. I worked in the area when the hotel was being built, and I from what I remember, Marriott would not build unless the parking lot was situated in front with direct access to Centre and Liberty, and they would not alter the footprint of the hotel to run diagonally along Liberty/ Basically, they did what was best for Marriott and not what would be best for the environment.

Hmm, too bad there wasn't any wording in the zoning ordinance, either in the form of an overlay or just flat-out, that would have prevented this.

for example: "Parking cannot have street frontage; primary structures are to have street frontage."

We have that here in Downingtown, and I actually brought that up at one of our meetings. An applicant wants to have a Dunkin Donuts at a prominent street corner (ok), with the drive-thru lane having the street frontage (bad) -- we have a TND in place... With that drive thru lane in place, the building falls well short of the "build-to" line as suggested in the TND...

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by Wave

Has anyone been following the construction of the Rite Aid project at the corner of Centre & Craig in North Oakland.

It was pretty disappointing to me that such a prime parcel was being underutilized for a one story Rite Aid and surface parking. That location screams for a significant residential/retail project. It would've been quite an improvement usage-wise with at least two stories (preferably many more) of residential or office above. This location is right accross from the never-built Chlesea Apartment project which was a large several hundred unit apartment building that was killed during the downturn.

I recently drove by the Rite Aid site and steel is up and the general footprint of the project can be discerned from the steel skeleton that is up. Fortunately the setbacks are right along the corner and the parking is in the back and on the side, but it is still, in my opinion, not nearly the highest and best use for the site. It does seem like they have tried to create some height with some sort of taller section along the corner of Centre & Craig but the final product remains to be seen- I am not too optimistic.

It's CVS, not Rite Aid. The store at Centre and Enfield will move there, I think they said by November, and it will be 24-hour, with a drive-up prescription window, much like the Forbes Ave. store in central Oakland. It's quite a bit smaller than the current store, unless they are going to put a stock room on a 2nd floor. More parking though.
Never heard another thing about the apartment building that was supposed to be built across the street. The houses up Centre seem to be occupied again.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by doo dah

It's CVS, not Rite Aid. The store at Centre and Enfield will move there, I think they said by November, and it will be 24-hour, with a drive-up prescription window, much like the Forbes Ave. store in central Oakland. .

Agree with OP. Unfortunately, this urban land seems to have sunk to its lowest possible use - generic single story suburban car-oriented.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Agree with OP. Unfortunately, this urban land seems to have sunk to its lowest possible use - generic single story suburban car-oriented.

Agreed. I'm not all that against CVS going in there, but why on Earth does this have to be a typical CVS you'd typically find in Anytown, USA? Such land should be used for either high-density residential, high-density commercial/office, or mixed-use with ground-level retail or office, or something else of that nature. Pittsburgh is playing catch-up as it is, so it's not like another hundred units or so are going to saturate the housing/rental market anytime soon...

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Agreed. I'm not all that against CVS going in there, but why on Earth does this have to be a typical CVS you'd typically find in Anytown, USA? Such land should be used for either high-density residential, high-density commercial/office, or mixed-use with ground-level retail or office, or something else of that nature. Pittsburgh is playing catch-up as it is, so it's not like another hundred units or so are going to saturate the housing/rental market anytime soon...

CVS's and Walgreens serve a useful purpose, for sure. We all need and use them. But I see them as blight on the urban fabric. Here in Tampa, they have multiplied as in many cities. So many major intersections have gone the way of the typical drive thru model with parking surrounding. And of course you see many, many intersections with a CVS on one corner and Walgreens on the other - ugh - the overkill.

My pipe dream is similar to your thoughts where there would be zoning that lets them go in, but they would be part of a multiuse building with offices above, parking in the rear, or something along those lines to boost the density a bit and make an appearance of more urban.

It just kills me to think that Centre/Craig will have the same awful generic look as about 10,000 other bland corners in the country. I always liked how North Oakland was different from the rest of the city with its highrise apartment buildings spanning many eras and general overal density.

[BrianTH]

Very tangential, but this 1916 Guide to the Lincoln Highway is pretty fun, with an interesting writeup of the then-important towns along the Highway in the Pittsburgh area:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UkJ...page&q&f=false

[markson33]

Pharmacy's are really glorified dollar/convenience stores. I'm not necessarily opposed to their use per-se, but municipalities need to keep them in check architecturally.

The Centre avenue store is just one example. Almost as bad is the new CVS at McCandless Crossing - it is an architectural travesty at a prime corner.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by markson33

Pharmacy's are really glorified dollar/convenience stores. I'm not necessarily opposed to their use per-se, but municipalities need to keep them in check architecturally.

On the plus side, they are also the functional equivalent of the good old corner store, and therefore can be a really useful amenity in dense, walkable neighborhoods.

But as everyone is suggesting, that vision works best if, like the old corner stores, they are placed directly along the sidewalk, with parking, drive-throughs, and so on relegated to the rear. And if this is consistent with the local neighborhood in general, they should be part of multi-story buildings.

[GeneW]

Row House Cinema To Bring Big Screen Back To Lawrenceville

In 1965, the Arsenal Theater in Lawrenceville shut its doors, leaving the neighborhood without a cinema. Now, nearly five decades later, a group of dedicated individuals are looking to change that.

Construction is now underway on Row House Cinema, a single screen theater located in an existing property on 4115 Butler Street. The establishment – which is the first of its kind built in the US in four decades – will showcase classic and cult films, and feature stadium seating, an on-site beer store, a state-of-the-art sound system, and gourmet concessions.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

Granted, those were different and difficult times, but I think the problem with Murphy is that he was of his time rather than ahead of it. I will always associate him with that wretched Fifth-Forbes plan that would have completely cleared six square blocks of downtown for a mall. It was not necessarily inspired to fight the plan---lots of people and organizations did. The mall concept was dated when it was proposed yet Murphy pushed and pushed. No vision whatsoever.

The original plan was between Fifth and Forbes from Market Square to Wood. With the possibility of expansion to Smithfield and across Fifth and Forbes... with preservation of many of the facades. Incidentally, the site sits where half the block was leveled for the currently u/c PNC tower... and a long-range part of the plan was to potentially replace the building that Oxford is deciding to renovate/demolish for a new high-rise on Smithfield; also where buildings were leveled for the current 3 PNC and the planned Gardens.

Maybe the "mall" idea was off-target (it wasn't really a mall anyway), but the "no vision" comment is way off. One can certainly find flaws with Murphy's plans for Pittsburgh's core, but to mainly associate him with plans for the Fifth-Forbes corridor is very misguided... when it was his (and planners', foundations', and non-profit groups' who Murphy gave voice to and collaborated with) vision that directly led to PNC Park (remember how NO ONE wanted PNC Park -- that it would be a huge failure), Heinz Field, Convention Center, Summerset, and SSW.

Not to mention the fact that he had a vision for the revitalization of East Liberty as a "downtown" core for the East End... he got rid of the high-rise projects, ripped out the 1970s mall, and worked with Mosites to build Eastside after attracting interest from Whole Foods because of his work to get Home Depot to take over the old Sears site. East Liberty is in the improving shape it is in now directly due to Murphy's seeding efforts. Not to mention the fact that he gave a kick in the ass to the ivory tower foundation set to provide a plan for acres and acres of prime riverfront property or give it up -- Almono would very likely still not have a plan for the old LTV site. And maybe his most lasting contribution to sound urban planning in Pittsburgh... his development of a comprehensive plan for Pittsburgh's riverfronts with his founding of Riverlife.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I also see Murphy as having been part of, and in fact a leader of, the people at the time who were still so desperate to get any investment in the City that they agreed to and promoted terrible projects.

So yeah, he was gung-ho about investing in the City. But more often than not, he was an enabler and active promoter of bad plans.

Maybe a part, or leader, of that group desperate for any development. That could certainly be argued.

But I have a hard time seeing him as a mayor who was mainly an enabler/promoter of bad plans, when there are ample efforts which have been resounding successes, and which have worked to shape the improving Pittsburgh we know today.

I definitely don't think Riverlife, the stadiums, conv center, SSW, East Liberty development, etc. were "terrible projects".

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Row House Cinema To Bring Big Screen Back To Lawrenceville

I love this plan, but I don't like that this developers are trying to have others pay for it via Indiegogo. Kind of ridiculous that increasingly big time Lawrenceville developers want the neighborhood to pay for this project, so that they can cash in on the gentrification of the neighborhood that they're creating themselves? Lawrenceville is already overpriced.

[themaguffin]

Murphy has vision. Fifth Forbes wasn't his only area of focus and additionally that area already was shitty.

Also calling it a mall makes it sound like well, a mall. It wasn't. It was street level retail etc. Yes, a lot of chains, but that's not unusual for many reasons.

The fifth forbes plan warranted (and deserved) scrutiny, but let's not pretend that area was some gem that was going to be destroyed because of lack of vision. Flawed vision perhaps, but he was aggressively trying to do things.

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

The original plan was between Fifth and Forbes from Market Square to Wood. With the possibility of expansion to Smithfield and across Fifth and Forbes... with preservation of many of the facades. Incidentally, the site sits where half the block was leveled for the currently u/c PNC tower... and a long-range part of the plan was to potentially replace the building that Oxford is deciding to renovate/demolish for a new high-rise on Smithfield; also where buildings were leveled for the current 3 PNC and the planned Gardens.

Maybe the "mall" idea was off-target (it wasn't really a mall anyway), but the "no vision" comment is way off. One can certainly find flaws with Murphy's plans for Pittsburgh's core, but to mainly associate him with plans for the Fifth-Forbes corridor is very misguided... when it was his (and planners', foundations', and non-profit groups' who Murphy gave voice to and collaborated with) vision that directly led to PNC Park (remember how NO ONE wanted PNC Park -- that it would be a huge failure), Heinz Field, Convention Center, Summerset, and SSW.

Not to mention the fact that he had a vision for the revitalization of East Liberty as a "downtown" core for the East End... he got rid of the high-rise projects, ripped out the 1970s mall, and worked with Mosites to build Eastside after attracting interest from Whole Foods because of his work to get Home Depot to take over the old Sears site. East Liberty is in the improving shape it is in now directly due to Murphy's seeding efforts. Not to mention the fact that he gave a kick in the ass to the ivory tower foundation set to provide a plan for acres and acres of prime riverfront property or give it up -- Almono would very likely still not have a plan for the old LTV site. And maybe his most lasting contribution to sound urban planning in Pittsburgh... his development of a comprehensive plan for Pittsburgh's riverfronts with his founding of Riverlife.

Let me clarify my comment: I found Murphy to have no vision when it came to his ideas for downtown retail development. But it is absolutely fair to associate the Fifth-Forbes plan with Murphy. He was mayor. He and his administration pushed and promoted and endorsed the idea. Whether the Fifth-Forbes proposal was actually a mall or not is immaterial. Murphy wanted those blocks bulldozed so a Chicago firm---Urban Retail, I think---could develop retail. At that very moment, the idea of those large, imposed downtown developments had lost adherents all over the country because they were unworkable and unsuccessful. As for saving the facades: That's a great option when the buildings are obsolete or decrepit. But the Murphy plan called for the destruction of countless historic retail buildings so new retail buildings could be built behind some preserved facades. The plan ignored that there were---and are---many buildings in the plan's footprint whose interior was just as important as the façade. The plan called for the removal of the very things that help distinguish downtown Pittsburgh from any other medium-sized American city. To use an over-used expression, it ignored the sense of place that those buildings imparted. The large downtown retail developments of that era, whether in Indy or Phoenix, all look the same. Murphy was driving the effort---despite any cheerleading from local foundations or other power brokers, it was his call. He was the mayor. It would not have progressed had his administration not championed it. It was an ill-conceived and dated plan at the time that only looks more illogical now. This is why I find it showed a lack of vision.

I understand that there were various versions of Fifth-Forbes. But what galvanized opposition was Murphy's embrace of the expanded plan that went all the way to Smithfield. Nordstrom was to sit where the new PNC building is being built. (Interestingly, across the street from a failed new department store building.)

For what it's worth, my post originally did commend Murphy for his emphasis on developing the riverfronts and some other efforts of his administration. I deleted those sentences to stay on point. I don't consider Murphy a failure...just not ahead of his time re downtown development.

.

[Private Dick]

^ Got it. Yeah, I agree with all that. I'm certainly much happier with the recent and current developments in the corridor, and think they are a far superior alternative to the downtown "mall" concept pushed back then.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I love this plan, but I don't like that this developers are trying to have others pay for it via Indiegogo. Kind of ridiculous that increasingly big time Lawrenceville developers want the neighborhood to pay for this project, so that they can cash in on the gentrification of the neighborhood that they're creating themselves? Lawrenceville is already overpriced.

Ehh, I pitched in 30 bucks. I get two movie tickets out it so I'm not really out much money. I don't care about it being in Lawrenceville as much as I care about getting money away from the big theater chains. I also love seeing old (or at least older) movies on a big screen and Butler Street is a lot easier drive than going out to The Oaks.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I definitely don't think Riverlife . . .

A lot of people were involved, but I agree he deserves credit for his part in promoting much better public use of the riverfronts.

. . . the stadiums . . .

No, this was pretty bad.

PNC Park may be the nicest baseball park in MLB, but collectively the stadiums are still a huge waste of precious land AND they were a huge waste of public funds AND the whole nest of deals involved are still having bad effects (more on that below).

. . . conv center . . .

Marginal, but OK.

. . . SSW . . .

Actually pretty bad as it was implemented under Murphy. Way too much retail, and the limitation on residential was terrible. It is only now starting to reach its real potential.

. . . East Liberty development . . .

I'm not sure how much credit Murphy can get for recent stuff, but I agree he did some stuff to help at the beginning.

Now for some stuff you omitted from your list.

The destruction of the Mellon Bank Branch interior for a failed Lord & Taylor, and in general the waste of public money in failed attempts to subsidize Downtown department stores. Just terrible.

The stadiums are just one part of the overall clusterfudge that happened on the North Shore. For example, Murphy was part of re-routing the northern section of what used to be the Spine Line to go along the river rather than into the heart of the North Side where people actually live, and that was done to serve the interests of the North Shore players that Murphy was supporting.

Meanwhile the stadium deals included the development deal for the land between the stadiums, and that has been a huge disappointment--way too slow, not nearly dense enough, favoring the priorities of the Steelers over the priorities of the City, reserving way too much land for parking, now grossly underutilizing the NSC . . . really, really terrible.

Then there is The Waterfront. Another blown opportunity led by Continental (the same people screwing up the North Shore). I've seen people here argue it reflected the thinking of the time, but if so we would have been better off waiting, and that is exactly the point we are discussing--Murphy wasn't ahead of his time if terrible plans like the Waterfront met with his approval.

So I absolutely stand by my statement. I agree his vision for the public spaces along the rivers was pretty good. But otherwise, his sense of what urban redevelopment should look like was pretty darn terrible.

[BrianTH]

Wilkinsburg is getting $3M for downtown renewal projects through a state tax credit program:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...l-plan-700530/

Four sites are to undergo major renewal:
• Old Wilkinsburg train station. The project will involve "reuse of the station that re-establishes its connection to the [nearby Port Authority] busway and ... reopens the pedestrian tunnel under the railroad tracks," the CDC said.
• Penn-Lincoln Hotel site. The CDC told the conference, "Environmental remediation is needed following the demolition of the Penn-Lincoln Hotel. After demolition, a new building will be constructed on the scale of existing buildings along Penn Avenue."
• 1001 block of Wood Street. Housing and commercial development there will create 74 housing units and 15 units of commercial storefronts.
• 800 block of Penn Avenue. The block has a vacancy rate of 98 percent, the conference said.

Reusing the train station is hugely important--it is a great old structure with a nice plot of land, and it has the potential to serve as a key gateway to downtown Wilkinsburg given its Busway location and reopening the pedestrian tunnel:



It will be very sad to see the Penn-Lincoln Hotel get torn down, but they have studied it very thoroughly and tried to market it, and I can accept it simply cannot be reused at this point. Hopefully they replace it with something decent (it sounds like the PHLF, or perhaps their for-profit company Landmarks, may be the developer, and they do good work usually). Here is a fair writeup and some pictures of more-or-less current conditions:

http://www.joshuadavidmooney.com/?p=708

I'm intrigued by the references to the 1001 block of Wood and 800 block of Penn. The 1001 block of Wood has tons of potential, is on some bus routes, and is pretty close to the Busway station. 74 units of housing and 15 units of commercial is a lot, so I am hoping they may be looking at renovating all of the buildings along that block except for the PNC Bank (which I believe does not need renovating).

Looking from the south:



And the north:



Finally, the south side of the 800 block of Penn has a great collection of historic commercial buildings:



However, the north side is mostly a mess and probably needs a massive teardown so it can be rebuilt:



I can't tell from the description what they intend to do, and this $3 million is being stretched pretty thin at this point. But in an ideal world both sides would be addressed, and they keep talking about businesses wanting to get involved, so maybe private funding can make up the rest.

And if the 800 block got redone well, and the Penn-Lincoln was replaced with a decent-sized new building that was modern and attractive, that would completely change the feel of driving into downtown Wilkinsburg along Penn Avenue.

So in short, it is an ambitious list of projects, but very strategic and I think the potential is there for some great stuff.

[BrianTH]

Addendum:

Counting possible storefronts in the 1001 block of Wood, I got 5 in the three-story building on the northeast portion, and 10 in the long two-story building on the northwest portion. So that adds up to the reported 15 and implies those two buildings are both involved.

Counting possible residential units isn't so easy, but I hope given the number reported it includes the upper floors of the building actually at 1001 Wood (on the northwest corner of Penn and Wood).