Chief William Commanda Bridge (Prince of Wales Bridge) | Closed for Winter

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Cre47

The Pont Noir definitely should be looked at for a twinning. Travelling between the Hull and Gatineau sectors between 6 and 9 and the other way from 3 to 6 is an absolute disaster. At most times getting from most areas from the Gatineau sector to the downtown Hull sectors it takes 30-35 minutes whilist during the counter peak period it takes about an hour if not more. STO seriously needs to think about the counter-peak service next year and not just the peak direction (100 and 200 and restoring express routes). Right now it has the worst service level since at least the mid-1990s

Just for comparison there are 4-5 buses an hour connecting the Hull sector to the Gatineau sector in the morning peak (before the Rapibus there were 12 trips per hour connecting the two sectors in the counter peak direction). 2 on route 57 but meanders in local streets before its eastern terminus, 1 on route 810 and 1 or 2 on route 33 which does a huge detour through several local areas and in the morning has a random schedule basically (random intervals such as 28 minutes, 57 minutes, 47 minutes, 25 minutes, etc). Route 300 which is the replacement of the 65-67-77 as well as the counter-peak replacement of the off-peak route 400 does a huge detour via Ottawa and does not have a stop in the Hull sector aside from Place d'Accueil (start/end point). One observation is why they don't use some of the 100's for returning trips from Labrosse to the downtown Hull sector instead of deadheading OOS while basically using almost the same route. This would be greatly helpful and not too much costly. Also it wouldn't be too complicated to have counter-peak trips on route 68 (using the 5 and 50 in the counter-peak direction) to ease the crowding on route 33 as well as returning the terminus of route 64 at Freeman also.

How I think they can fix the Pont Noir?

* During peak periods, it should be unidirectional in the peak direction. That way, there would be no need for buses to stop to have other buses pass in the opposite direction.
* Deadheading buses would be required to use the 5/50 or the Alonzo-Wright Bridge. With more 210s (300s) and a new 110, there would be fewer deadheading buses anyway.

Also to improve Hull to Gatineau service in the counter-peak, without considering the express routes (which need to be brought back, but that would be a different though altogether):

* Introduce a new counter-peak Route 110. Same as the 100, except diverting to the 5/50 like the 810 does now. The ideal frequency would be every 15 minutes IMO. Costs would be minimal as the buses would otherwise be deadheading.
* Route 300 should be renumbered to 210 (to make it show that it is derived from 200), with a 15 minute frequency.
* Movements between Ottawa and the Hull stations would be done with Route 20, as it is now.
* Introduce Route 69, via the Alonzo-Wright Bridge and straight down La Verendrye, as a counter-peak derivative of Route 68 (68 would continue with peak-direction and midday service) - once again, it is likely such would be replacing deadheading buses so costs would be minimal

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Mr.Flintstone

Which part of the rail is use for freights? They seem to have ripped out some part of the rail to make way for the rapibus corridor. I would like to see some type of train transit run down that corridor instead of buses.

As far as I am aware, there are no sidings or rail service south of here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.45854...!3m1!1e3?hl=en

This means you could run trains as far north as the Casino without conflicting with the existing Rapibus. At Alexandre-Tache, the tracks have been paved over and the crossing sings have been removed, but the track remains under the asphalt.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by WannabeLandscapeArch

Hello all,

Please let me share an idea I had the other day.

As many of you know, "black bridge" extending from bayview station across the Ottawa river to aylmer is one of the sketchiest places in Ottawa. But I would also argue that it holds some of the nicest views and highest potential to be renovated as a pedestrian walk. I was just wondering if I am out to lunch and would love to hear everyone's comments on the idea, negative or positive. With significant retrofitting, lighting, and surveillance I feel there is potential for something special

This ia a totally confusing thread. Is it about Pont Noir which goes across the Gatineau River, or the Prince of Wales Bridge across the Ottawa River. They're both on the same corridor

[WannabeLandscapeArch]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

This ia a totally confusing thread. Is it about Pont Noir which goes across the Gatineau River, or the Prince of Wales Bridge across the Ottawa River. They're both on the same corridor

I suppose this is confusing. I didn't know the name of the bridge (growing up in Ottawa it was always referred to as Black Bridge) but turns out the name is the Prince of Wales Bridge. My apologies for the confusion!

[waterloowarrior]

^title updated

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Mr.Flintstone

Which part of the rail is use for freights? They seem to have ripped out some part of the rail to make way for the rapibus corridor. I would like to see some type of train transit run down that corridor instead of buses.

The bridge and the whole rail corridor along Maloney are still used for freight. They ripped it all out for the construction and re-installed the rails after.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?

Why would Gatineau citizens be so forced?

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?

1) Those going to downtown Ottawa would not use the Prince of Wales Bridge train. They would use the existing buses (although STO would be able to somewhat reduce the number of buses crossing the Ottawa River).

2) Those going to south Ottawa (i.e. Carleton, Confederation Heights) or coming from south Ottawa (i.e. South Keys) going to Gatineau would no longer have to use downtown buses, instead could take a train to Gatineau or from Gatineau to south Ottawa. They benefit greatly from such a connection.

3) Those going from Gatineau to the west (i.e. Tunney's Pasture) already have to transfer. They add one transfer at Bayview, but it still would likely be quicker than going into downtown Ottawa, walking 3 or 4 blocks (or through the Rideau Centre) then boarding a westbound bus.

4) Those coming from the east or west in Ottawa and would otherwise transfer to Route 105 would (most likely) instead use the train from Bayview. A few may have a longer walk or could still use Route 8, but most have a shorter travel time.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

1) Those going to downtown Ottawa would not use the Prince of Wales Bridge train. They would use the existing buses (although STO would be able to somewhat reduce the number of buses crossing the Ottawa River).

2) Those going to south Ottawa (i.e. Carleton, Confederation Heights) or coming from south Ottawa (i.e. South Keys) going to Gatineau would no longer have to use downtown buses, instead could take a train to Gatineau or from Gatineau to south Ottawa. They benefit greatly from such a connection.

3) Those going from Gatineau to the west (i.e. Tunney's Pasture) already have to transfer. They add one transfer at Bayview, but it still would likely be quicker than going into downtown Ottawa, walking 3 or 4 blocks (or through the Rideau Centre) then boarding a westbound bus.

4) Those coming from the east or west in Ottawa and would otherwise transfer to Route 105 would (most likely) instead use the train from Bayview. A few may have a longer walk or could still use Route 8, but most have a shorter travel time.

1) I, as well as certain politicians (Mathieu Fleury for one) see the PoW as a way to eliminate all STO bus traffic from downtown Ottawa.

2) Either way, be it buses or trains on the PoW, they will get the same benefit.

3) At the end of the day, buses on the PoW is the best option for those heading in west Ottawa.

4) They would again have to transfer 2-3 times for those heading to downtown Hull with a rail PoW (Confederation to Trillium, Trillium to bus) as opposed to a bus based PoW which could have a OC Transpo route between Bayview and downtown Hull, or take an STO bus to the office towers along St-Joseph in Hull.

5) Crossing the O-Train to Gatineau would eliminate any chance of a direct airport to downtown line.

[Aylmer]

For my purposes, I'd like to see Gatineau LRT terminate under the Plaza Bridge (connecting with Rideau Station) by way the Alexandra bridge's centre deck and the old rail RoW on the side of Majors Hill.

For the O-Train, connecting to Hull via the PoW bridge is all fine and dandy for Ottawa commuters, but for Gatineau, it's more of a supplement than a replacement of its Ottawa buses. By the simple fact that the bridge is single-tracked (with space for a passing track on Lemieux), I don't think that it would have the capacity to accommodate the entirety of Gatineau's Ottawa-bound commuters and the overload at Bayview would be impressive. We have to remember that there are about 12 000 Ottawa-bound commuters from Gatineau who currently take transit during the AM peak.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

For my purposes, I'd like to see Gatineau LRT terminate under the Plaza Bridge (connecting with Rideau Station) by way the Alexandra bridge's centre deck and the old rail RoW on the side of Majors Hill.

For the O-Train, connecting to Hull via the PoW bridge is all fine and dandy for Ottawa commuters, but for Gatineau, it's more of a supplement than a replacement of its Ottawa buses. By the simple fact that the bridge is single-tracked (with space for a passing track on Lemieux), I don't think that it would have the capacity to accommodate the entirety of Gatineau's Ottawa-bound commuters and the overload at Bayview would be impressive. We have to remember that there are about 12 000 Ottawa-bound commuters from Gatineau who currently take transit during the AM peak.

I would think the train would draw maybe 1,500 to 2,000 of those AM peak commuters - those heading to destinations south of downtown certainly, and some heading west of downtown may prefer the train connection. It would draw the majority of the AM peak commuting INTO Gatineau though for a large counter-peak flow. Based on that, STO service across the Ottawa River could be reduced by about 15%.

Some new transit users may be attracted to the train - most likely they would be either those who live in Gatineau and work along the line (i.e. Carleton, Confederation, Booth area) or those who live in the south end and work in Gatineau, who would suddenly have a one-seat ride which does not even go into downtown Ottawa. However, most of the ridership would be redirecting existing flow.

Savings for OC Transpo: Elimination of Route 105, offset slightly by a short extension of Route 8 to Sacre-Coeur for a few trips

Savings for STO: Reduction (by about 15%) of peak period trips into downtown Ottawa, which could be shortened or redirected to end in downtown Hull (those connecting to the train from Gatineau would do so in downtown Hull, not downtown Ottawa).

[waterloowarrior]

This would be my idea... using it to extend the Trillium Line. A cycling/pedestrian deck would be added. I would assume this would be done after the line is converted to electric/double tracked.



Stations at Alexandre-Taché-UQO (bit of a walk to transfer), Eddy, Place du Portage, Canadian History Museum and Rideau. Using the old rail ROW/path, tunnel under Laurier after Portage, Alexandra Bridge, old rail line beside Chateau Laurier. Creates a direct connection between the two downtowns and allows airport/Riverside South rail to go downtown Ottawa without a transfer.

[danishh]

I think on a long time-scale, you want the PoW to eventually have 2-way rail service plus another 2 'lanes' to serve pedestrian and cycle traffic. You would probably have 2 gatineau lines/routes travelling over the bridge to connect to the OC transpo system.

In the short term, gatineau is going to be using BRT on the current rapibus trunk for 20-30 years, and probably wont be looking at downtown hull rapid transit any time soon either.

To me that means that a new PoW bridge should be designed with ~3 lanes capacity. 2 lanes would be used to facilitate rapibus connections to bayview, and one lane for pedestrians/cyclists. The bridge should be designed to allow easy conversion to rail once gatineau is ready for that, and at that point closed to bus traffic and any excess space (trains take less roadspace than busses) would be added to pedestrian/cycling capacity.

I dont mind the idea of preserving the existing PoW bridge to serve as the pedestrian/cycling portion, but it may be easier and cheaper to remove it and design a new bridge with the capacity I have outlined. I would very much like a new bridge to have a similar design though, simply scaled up.

[Trans Canada]

I reckon this bridge could have been used best if the Transitway had had more capacity, such as if there was a bus tunnel through downtown. Have Rapibuses run over the bridge then use the Transitway to downtown and to Tunney's (which I am guessing are the two major destinations for Gatineau residents). No connections required and it takes Rapibus off the streets of downtown Ottawa.

[Kitchissippi]

My thought would be to leave the old bridge relatively intact for pedestrians and cyclists, and extend the piers with modern materials for a bus bridge that can later be converted to LRT.



The way the new Bayview station is designed with the Trillium line platform on the west side of the tracks makes it easy to add a BRT staging area on the northwest corner.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

This would be my idea... using it to extend the Trillium Line. A cycling/pedestrian deck would be added. I would assume this would be done after the line is converted to electric/double tracked.

...

Stations at Alexandre-Taché-UQO (bit of a walk to transfer), Eddy, Place du Portage, Canadian History Museum and Rideau. Using the old rail ROW/path, tunnel under Laurier after Portage, Alexandra Bridge, old rail line beside Chateau Laurier. Creates a direct connection between the two downtowns and allows airport/Riverside South rail to go downtown Ottawa without a transfer.

This is exactly what I'm thinking.

In Hull, there's the added benefit that, between the trench running from east of Portage to Laval and the empty basements under the Eddy Warehouse from Montcalm to Eddy, it would be quite easy to build a shallow tunnel from Montcalm to Portage, avoiding slow-downs at the Chaudière and Portage bridges as well as the future activity around the Windmill development. You could tunnel into the Eddy building's basement to use as a station in front of Terraces de la Chaudière then extend and cover the trench beside Laurier (Windmill will have to dig up the earth there anyways for decontamination purposes) from Portage to Eddy.

After the shallow tunnel, you could just run it beside Laurier and concert the centre deck of the Alexandra Bridge to two LRT lanes (at 22 feet, there's enough space even for the widest LRT vehicles) and turn the east deck into a reversible lane).

On the Ottawa side, you'd need to expropriate the old photography museum (currently government offices) and the rent-a-bike shop under the bridge, but you'd get an easy, ready-made terminus downtown.

That alignment could also become the trunk for lines to the west and north of Gatineau as well as a future converted Rapibus.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

5) Crossing the O-Train to Gatineau would eliminate any chance of a direct airport to downtown line.

How so?

[GernB]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

This would be my idea... using it to extend the Trillium Line. A cycling/pedestrian deck would be added. I would assume this would be done after the line is converted to electric/double tracked.



Stations at Alexandre-Taché-UQO (bit of a walk to transfer), Eddy, Place du Portage, Canadian History Museum and Rideau. Using the old rail ROW/path, tunnel under Laurier after Portage, Alexandra Bridge, old rail line beside Chateau Laurier. Creates a direct connection between the two downtowns and allows airport/Riverside South rail to go downtown Ottawa without a transfer.

Interesting idea...you've got an intercity loop connecting to the confederation line and the rapibus as well. Any bureaucrats listening?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

How so?

The Trillium Line is the only potential for a direct airport-downtown service. You extend it to Gatineau, their will never be any political will to re-route to downtown.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

This would be my idea... using it to extend the Trillium Line. A cycling/pedestrian deck would be added. I would assume this would be done after the line is converted to electric/double tracked.



Stations at Alexandre-Taché-UQO (bit of a walk to transfer), Eddy, Place du Portage, Canadian History Museum and Rideau. Using the old rail ROW/path, tunnel under Laurier after Portage, Alexandra Bridge, old rail line beside Chateau Laurier. Creates a direct connection between the two downtowns and allows airport/Riverside South rail to go downtown Ottawa without a transfer.

That is the only way I would be onboard with extending the Trillium to Gatineau. Make it rapid transit (using old basements and RoW as proposed by you and Aylmer) and add a station at the National Gallery and you have a plan!