Baseline BRT EA

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

The links on the City's Webpage that Buggys provided the link to do not provide any information for me. Does anyone else get anything?

I couldn't find any linked information on that page either.

[Buggys]

Sorry, I just clicked on some of what I thought were links to .PDF docs, and there was nothing.

I remember at the last open house, they had a big architect's diagram of baseline road spanning a table or 2. There were dotted lines across some semi detached houses on 1 side of the street, which the consultants (Parsons people) said meant expropriation needed in the ultimate plan to accommodate 2 bus lanes & 4 other lanes. The proposed expropriation side was on the same side as the farm, to be less disruptive to people's yards. The plan included expropriation of a sliver along the farm as well, and the Parsons folks or City staff said they did not have much (if any) prior discussion with the Feds about taking a sliver away from the farm.

[waterloowarrior]

Strange, I was looking at the plans the other day and the links worked

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Catenary

There was discussion of this early on, which is why the existing stretch from PoW to Data Centre was added to the study. This area will be converted so the entire stretch is centre running.

The eastern end of the busway could be a challenge. That whole area reminds me of L.A. with the mess of needless overpasses, underpasses and winding cloverleafs. It would be nice if the could demolish everything and start from scratch.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Sorry, I just clicked on some of what I thought were links to .PDF docs, and there was nothing.

Looks like they moved the files and broke the links. If you do a search, you can find all of the PDFs, but many of them are labeled "Baseline Road Rapid Transit Corridor [PDF]" so finding the one you want is a bit of a challenge.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The eastern end of the busway could be a challenge. That whole area reminds me of L.A. with the mess of needless overpasses, underpasses and winding cloverleafs. It would be nice if the could demolish everything and start from scratch.

Yep. The Confederation Heights area, along with the area around the Arts Court, stand out as two areas with really messy road networks that could use a complete rethink.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Strange, I was looking at the plans the other day and the links worked

The city's website sucks. Continuing issue. No one over there cares.

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Yep. The Confederation Heights area, along with the area around the Arts Court, stand out as two areas with really messy road networks that could use a complete rethink.

In 2017, CRA is, at this point, moving workers from Bells Cornors to the area around 875 heron road. This includes:

- the old CBC building at 750 Heron road
- the CSIS building at cornor of riverside and heron

I currently live in the west end so for me, i will use the O-train from Bayview
To cinfederation station.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

In 2017, CRA is, at this point, moving workers from Bells Cornors to the area around 875 heron road. This includes:

- the old CBC building at 750 Heron road
- the CSIS building at cornor of riverside and heron

I currently live in the west end so for me, i will use the O-train from Bayview
To cinfederation station.

I was wondering which Department was going to get that space. They are already in 875 Heron so it makes sense.

[1overcosc]

Among the huge list of federally funded projects from today's announcement is funding for detailed design of the Baseline BRT.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Among the huge list of federally funded projects from today's announcement is funding for detailed design of the Baseline BRT.

For $6M I assume it will be quite detailed!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

For $6M I assume it will be quite detailed!

At least a step forward.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

At least a step forward.

It's about the biggest step forward that can be taken at the moment. You need to have a line designed before you can build it.

Once the detailed design is done it can go to tender for construction. Funding for construction is already allocated in the city's TMP.

[roger1818]

I wonder if any consideration will be given to the option of running trolleybuses on the busway. Modern trolleybuses have options for battery power, hybrid power and even supercapacitors for when they don't have access to external power. Trolleybuses provide many advantages over conventional motorbuses.

[McC]

I'm a fan, but the City's experience with the Hybrids is that OC Transport is incapable of managing a mixed fleet, and dedicating specific hardware to specific routes in a cost-effective manner. It's a shame, because I'd also like to see us look at hybrid (or fully electric) short buses to circulate from LRT stations into neighbouring communities; like these guys do in Paris and its suburbs: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobu...Flandre_01.jpg

[Beedok]

Another issue is the presence of double deckers. They'd either have to accept never running double deckers on the route or only double deckers. Plus issues with the various other routes that intersect with Baseline.

[PHrenetic]

Good day, all.
Another button pushed.
The Baseline 'TransitWay' is soooo long overdue that it just isn't funny.
It should have been built, or at least a bus only lane chain / priority busway,
in order to provide relief during the LRT construction.
It was long overdue before that anyway. But no, that would have made sense.
As for surface tram, electric bus, hybrid bus, or even regular DD, artic, or 40's,
well, that is another long debate. IMO, Hybrids are not for this type of route.
The were meant for, and tested on (and did very well on) routes such as 5.
But as noted, OC does poorly on proper equipment assignment and use.
Given the preliminary design that has been reached to this point, surface LRT or tram
could do very well, better than on the Carling Ave. corridor, as long as proper traffic control is implemented. It gets a bit tight west of Merivale. But of course, regular buses could be implemented far more quickly and cheaply (ahem ahem cough choke).
Thanks.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Another issue is the presence of double deckers. They'd either have to accept never running double deckers on the route or only double deckers. Plus issues with the various other routes that intersect with Baseline.

Not true. According to VancityBuzz, the nominal clearance trolley wires in Vancovuer's is 5.2 m, where as OC Transpo's Enviro500 buses are only 4.1 m tall. That is over a meter of clearance.


Enviro500 driving under the trolley wires in Vancouver's Metrotwon bus loop.

In fact, several cities have used Double-decker trolleybuses in the past, but personally I don't think that would be necessary or even a good idea for Ottawa.

[Beedok]

I had known about the double decker trolleybuses, but was not aware that Vancouver and some other cities went for such high wires.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

IMO, Hybrids are not for this type of route.
The were meant for, and tested on (and did very well on) routes such as 5.
But as noted, OC does poorly on proper equipment assignment and use.

I am not suggesting the use of hybrids (similar to the Orion VII Hybrid currently in use), but trolleybuses. The issue with hybrid buses is they use a serial design (the diesel motor can't drive the wheels directly but instead drives a generator, that charges the battery which powers electric motors which drive the wheels). Each stage adds inefficiencies. This disadvantage is compensated by the fact that diesel motor can run at its most efficient speed, it will shut off automatically when not needed (the HVAC runs off of battery, so it will continue to work) and regenerative braking will recharge the batteries. That is why they are most efficient on routes with low speeds and frequent stops.

For those who aren't familiar, trolleybuses are electric buses that use a pair of overhead wires to power the bus. They combine many of the advantages of a tram or street car, with many of the advantages of a bus. Vancouver has an extensive network of trolleybuses that have been in use since they took over from streetcars in the 50's and currently have both standard 12m/40' and articulated 18m/60' trolleybuses in service.



From this post.

Originally trolleybuses had no backup power source, so if they lost connection, they would coast to a stop. This is obviously a big disadvantage, yet many cities (live Vancouver) continued to use them, since the advantages outweighed the disadvantages.

Modern trolleybuses have some form of reserve power. This could be as simple as a supercapacitor to allow it get around small obsolesces, bridge dead spots or pull over at a convenient location, a battery to let it make detours or extend the route beyond the trolley infrastructure or ride out short to medium power outages, or diesel generator, to give it the flexibility to be used on other routes or continue working during extended outages.

Given the preliminary design that has been reached to this point, surface LRT or tram could do very well, better than on the Carling Ave. corridor, as long as proper traffic control is implemented. It gets a bit tight west of Merivale. But of course, regular buses could be implemented far more quickly and cheaply (ahem ahem cough choke).
Thanks.

I think modern trolleybuses would be better than a surface LRT or tram for Baseline. They provide a smoother, quieter ride and have more flexibility to grow without having to provide a complete end to end solution upfront. Surface LRT is really only necessary on routes that have need for very high capacity vehicles. I'm not convinced Baseline fits that description.