Atlantic Highways Thread

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by OliverD

The last thing we need is to further incentivize rural and exurban living in this province. I think the current route works well.

That may be, and it is something to work towards (or against depending on your POV), but, and this may just be my own feelings on this, there's something different when you are going down a highway and know there's a town or village nearby vs going down the highway and knowing you're literally in the middle of nowhere.

To me, this is very evident with Route 2 and Route 1 here in NB. Midway through the Coles Island to Salisbury stretch on Route 2, I'm a bit anxious, just wanting to see some sign of anything besides a logging road basically.

But if I've cut down to Sussex and am taking Route 1 instead, it's a bit more relaxing of a drive since I know I'm never all that far from a place; you're going to see something besides hills and trees every few 10s of klicks.

It's all mental I know, especially with the reliability of vehicles nowadays; but it does give an impression that NB is more than just Trees and more Trees.

That's why I wish Route 1 had gone down to Sussex from Coles Island basically (water under the bridge now) and now that I look at it, wish Route 7 had nudged over closer to the Junction and out of CFB Gagetown.

Or even follow the 102 route along the river, and have the TCH go from Gagetown to say Hampstead area, cross the river there and cut across to Sussex and onward to Moncton. (Pipe dreams as always. )

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

It's easy to be skeptical over the project however before being presumptuous over the project we should just wait and see. There is a trend within the province that whenever something in terms of infrastructure is announced for the North - anybody that lives in the South shoots it down as an automatic waste of cash.

I'm not sure why it is being called an expressway - I believe the current plan has called for a 2 lane bypass (not a twin highway) to be built from Glenwood to Miramichi. The issue is not traffic count - it is rather the open access to the highway which makes it extremely dangerous. That portion of highway has a 100km/h speed limit and probably well over a 100 points to enter and exit - could we not agree this makes for dangerous conditions?

The tunnel does sound far fetched. The original plan was to build 2 overpasses and a bridge over the Napan River (which is not a stream by the way) and now they are hinting towards a tunnel. I always assumed tunnels would be far more expensive however they are stating they can do this at a similar cost - guess we will have to wait and see!

I thought it goes down to 80 kph after "merging" with 134...

Also, what do you guys think of the POV that no properties should be on major highways? It makes future expansion difficult IMO.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Also, what do you guys think of the POV that no properties should be on major highways? It makes future expansion difficult IMO.

If it is a limited access highway built to freeway standards then there should be no private access onto the highway. There also should be no level crossings. All access points should be by interchanges.

[MonctonRad]

It seems the government must be taking some heat over this proposed expressway tunnel in the Miramichi.

The Minister of Transportation is now referring to the project as nothing more than a really really long underpass........

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It seems the government must be taking some heat over this proposed expressway tunnel in the Miramichi.

The Minister of Transportation is now referring to the project as nothing more than a really really long underpass........

WTF?

I do have a question That pertains to Miramichi, and Potentially this ne Tunnel as a Bypass. Ho owns the Pulp, and Paper mill(If it's still running)?, and also I think Arbec (Produits Forestiers Arbec) Is expanding. So this new tunnel Might be built because of potential Job expansion in the Miramichi region.

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Traffic counts don't warrant it. Route 11 between Shediac & Bouctouche has double the traffic that Route 7 has through Cape Gagetown.

What's the source on traffic counts in NB? I've seen them published online in NS but they seem secret here.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by Scarface

WTF?

I do have a question That pertains to Miramichi, and Potentially this ne Tunnel as a Bypass. Ho owns the Pulp, and Paper mill(If it's still running)?, and also I think Arbec (Produits Forestiers Arbec) Is expanding. So this new tunnel Might be built because of potential Job expansion in the Miramichi region.

I don't understand what a tunnel has to do with an expanded mill? There are well over 1,000 less jobs in the pulp and paper industry than there were 30 years ago in the Miramichi region. You don't need much for infrastructure to move wood trucks in and out.

I think the overall goal is to preserve the country feel in the community in which they are putting a new highway through. A new highway cutting through the community would certainly have a major impact on the look and feel. If they can build some variation of a tunnel and do it at a similar cost it would be a great move.

There is noway however this is a full tunnel - a full tunnel over that distance would cost well over the 90 million they have budgeted for the whole highway.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Franco401

What's the source on traffic counts in NB? I've seen them published online in NS but they seem secret here.

I've had to request them from the DoT...they should be posted online and made available to the public, but it's 2018 and that's not possible I guess. When I'm not on the road I'll post the actual numbers for the route in question.

[Dengler Avenue]

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...g-a-life-worth

The title should be self-explanatory.
The article was published a while ago, but it provided some perspectives.

[MonctonRad]

That section of the 104 is slated for twinning (as far as Antigonish), as is a portion of the 101 as far as Kentville and a chunk of the 103 between Head of St Margarets Bay towards Bridgewater.

As someone who formerly drove the trunk highways in the Maritimes quite frequently in the wintertime, I strongly believe that safety considerations should be just as important as AADT in determining where highway twinning should occur. I believe that between major communities, especially with frequent truck traffic, that trunk highways should be twinned regardless of AADT. Canada needs a national highway system like in the US.

[Taeolas]

Having driven back to Freddy from SJ Friday night, I do believe that for safety reasons, they should seriously consider finishing the twinning on that highway. It may not have the traffic numbers, or even the actual accidents, but it certainly was not a nice drive with the wintery mix we had that evening. Considering it is between 2 of the bigger cities in the province it seems like something that should be done at somepoint.

For the most part, it doesn't seem like it would be that expensive to finish the twinning as well. There's only a couple of intersections left, and the land itself is fairly flat and wide enough for the extra lanes.

[Ire Narissis]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Having driven back to Freddy from SJ Friday night, I do believe that for safety reasons, they should seriously consider finishing the twinning on that highway. It may not have the traffic numbers, or even the actual accidents, but it certainly was not a nice drive with the wintery mix we had that evening. Considering it is between 2 of the bigger cities in the province it seems like something that should be done at somepoint.

For the most part, it doesn't seem like it would be that expensive to finish the twinning as well. There's only a couple of intersections left, and the land itself is fairly flat and wide enough for the extra lanes.

At the very least, I'd like to see the stretch between Grand Bay and Welsford twinned, in order to make it 4 lanes straight from Saint John through the end of the Welsford bypass. That'd be a good start.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Ire Narissis

At the very least, I'd like to see the stretch between Grand Bay and Welsford twinned, in order to make it 4 lanes straight from Saint John through the end of the Welsford bypass. That'd be a good start.

Looking on Google, that's about 20km worth of highway. Most of it through forest (on google maps I saw maybe 1 or 2 slightly rocky areas but no major excavations). 1 Underpass and 2 or 3 overpasses.

That should be really doable and the Traffic counts would probably be more justifiable than the Base Gagetown end of the highway, and basically have Route 7 half twinned.

The other half should be even easier to do eventually. The only overpass is already twinned; so they would just have to build 1 interchange for Geary. Otherwise it's all basic forest from one end to the other; no major bridges or anything.

[OliverD]

Still a ton of money for a province that has none though.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Still a ton of money for a province that has none though.

Brian Gallant seems to think we have tonnes of money though - $20M here, $20M there, pretty soon we're talking about serious change.......

[JHikka]

Route 7 twinning through CFB Gagetown will make sense once traffic counts increase between Fredericton & Saint John. A lot of Fredericton's growth has been at the other end of the city (Hanwell) with limited growth in the Oromocto end, meaning that areas like Geary and Waasis are not contributing higher counts on the 7. For SJ, stagnant growth is pretty self-explanatory. Twinning along Route 101 would be nice but impractical as a lot of the route is homes and property.

There really isn't as much traffic on Route 7 are people think there is, and the passing lanes and engineering for most of it is suitable enough for now. Eventually it would be reasonable for Route 7 to be twinned from Welsford to GBW, but for now even that isn't that big of a deal.

It links two major cities isn't enough of a reason to warrant full twinning.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Route 7 twinning through CFB Gagetown will make sense once traffic counts increase between Fredericton & Saint John. A lot of Fredericton's growth has been at the other end of the city (Hanwell) with limited growth in the Oromocto end, meaning that areas like Geary and Waasis are not contributing higher counts on the 7. For SJ, stagnant growth is pretty self-explanatory. Twinning along Route 101 would be nice but impractical as a lot of the route is homes and property.

There really isn't as much traffic on Route 7 are people think there is, and the passing lanes and engineering for most of it is suitable enough for now. Eventually it would be reasonable for Route 7 to be twinned from Welsford to GBW, but for now even that isn't that big of a deal.

It links two major cities isn't enough of a reason to warrant full twinning.

Major cities

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

Major cities

Links between much smaller centers are often twinned. As far as Canada goes there are few city's of 100,000 plus population wise that are this close that do not have a twinned highway linking them.

Not sure it is warranted, but I can see why people are confused as to why northern communities (declining populations) or bouctouche (2500 people) needs to have twinned highway access, over two of the bigger and more important centers in the province.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Links between much smaller centers are often twinned. As far as Canada goes there are few city's of 100,000 plus population wise that are this close that do not have a twinned highway linking them.

Not sure it is warranted, but I can see why people are confused as to why northern communities (declining populations) or bouctouche (2500 people) needs to have twinned highway access, over two of the bigger and more important centers in the province.

Perhaps we can compare the accident rates on both highways.

I heard that people usually drive recklessly on the 11 though. A while back when it was closed for twinning, people were racing down Shediac Road and those that live on it filed a complaint with RCMP.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Perhaps we can compare the accident rates on both highways.

I heard that people usually drive recklessly on the 11 though. A while back when it was closed for twinning, people were racing down Shediac Road and those that live on it filed a complaint with RCMP.

AADT is much higher on 11 between Bouctouche and Shediac than on route 7 between Saint John and Oromocto. The twinning project on the southern part of Highway 11 can be justified. As I have stated previously though, I also think Highway 7 should be twinned.