22 Bay St S | ? | 29 fl | Proposed

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

As long as it's some form of somewhat strong priority, it'll be fine. Kitchener has priority but it does stop for lights for a short period occasionally - that is what I would be OK with. It still feels quite fast and you see it with an average travel speed of about 28km/h - barely below that of the Toronto subway (30-35km/h).

Toronto's LRTs will apparently only get signal priority when they are behind schedule - so will be slow as h***. I don't want that.

I doubt Hamilton will end up with a 28km/h average travel time as Kitchener has some very high speed sections on dedicated rail corridors that Hamilton doesn't (the one part over the 403 would have been like that.. but no longer), but something closer to 25km/h would be pretty solid.

If it is still like it was when I last rode, the ION travels incredibly.slow even on some parts of the dedicated rail line. There were periods where the speed was 15km/h. It was brutal. Around corners it makes sense, but on straight sections it make zero sense.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

If it is still like it was when I last rode, the ION travels incredibly.slow even on some parts of the dedicated rail line. There were periods where the speed was 15km/h. It was brutal. Around corners it makes sense, but on straight sections it make zero sense.

Agreed. I was shocked by ION. Literally faster to walk through downtown Kitchener than ride the ION which is really unacceptable. It seems to be ok for getting from say Waterloo to Kitchener, or some of the other further stations. But through the downtown it is embarrassingly slow. They added a bunch of curves through the downtown which drastically slow the train down. Luckily we shouldn;'t have that issue as our line will basically be straight the entire route, other than that unfortunate design change by the Fortinos.

[LikeHamilton]

Bay Street does not need an LRT stop!

Bay Street to the middle of the west bound platform is only 315m walking distance at James (west of).
Bay Street to the middle of the east bound platform is only 430m walking distance at James (east of).
Bay Street to the Queen Street platform is only 420m on the west side of Queen.

(Measurements done on Google Earth)

I really do not expect any of these to be moved. The vast majority of people should not have any problem walking these distances, especially a student! People going to First Ontario Centre (Copp’s) will go through Jackson Square like they do now, go to a restaurants, maybe shop and then go outside on Bay Street. People who want to have cheap parking will still park behind City Hall and walk the 500m to 600m to Copp’s.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

Bay Street does not need an LRT stop!

Bay Street to the middle of the west bound platform is only 315m walking distance at James (west of).
Bay Street to the middle of the east bound platform is only 430m walking distance at James (east of).
Bay Street to the Queen Street platform is only 420m on the west side of Queen.

(Measurements done on Google Earth)

I really do not expect any of these to be moved. The vast majority of people should not have any problem walking these distances, especially a student! People going to First Ontario Centre (Copp’s) will go through Jackson Square like they do now, go to a restaurants, maybe shop and then go outside on Bay Street. People who want to have cheap parking will still park behind City Hall and walk the 500m to 600m to Copp’s.

The issue isn't the straight line distance, it's the items that are a bit out of the way. Imagine someone going to FOC. They'd have to walk from James St 10 minutes. It's also become one of the densest areas of the city, which makes it silly kind of to not have a high capacity transit line outside it. Imagine walking out of the McMaster Grad residence and seeing the LRT train pass you, only for you to have to walk all the way to Queen St to catch the LRT to McMaster main campus. It's a 7 minute walk, then a 10 minute LRT ride. So 17 minutes. Alternatively if this downtown campus had a stop it would be an extra 2 minutes of riding, so 12 minutes. That's a 5 minute difference each direction, for a total of an additional 10 minutes, for thousands of people. Which is crazy when you realize the entire drive is 8 minutes. If you want to convince people to take transit rather than drive, you need a comparable or great alternative. 8 minute drive vs 12 minute LRT is comparable, 8 minute drive vs a 7 minute walk in the cold plus 10 minute train ride for a total of 17 minutes (if the LRT is there when you get to the stop) is a tougher sell. People will still do it. But transit is all about frequency and accessibility. If it's inconvenient, less people will take it. I imagine many will make the walk, but it just seems silly when it's such a busy intersection and only getting busier.

It already sucks for me, because I live on Bay St N, so I've gotta walk 12 minutes to King St. If there is no stop at Bay, it will take me more than half my trip just walking to the LRT. I'm hoping the improved bus network resolves some of this, but as it is, Central Neighbourhood actually has a tough time of getting on the proposed LRT.

[TheHonestMaple]

I don't really see an issue with having a stop at Queen, Bay AND James. half a kilometre between stops is not unreasonable.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I don't really see an issue with having a stop at Queen, Bay AND James. half a kilometre between stops is not unreasonable.

Especially in the densest part of the city. There is really nowhere along the LRT route any transit advocate or expert would say the spacing is too close. It's probably one of the most well thought-out plans in the GTHA. Having one extra stop would make it only marginally slower while better serving thousands of people, especially during events.

[TheHonestMaple]

And about to get WAY more dense. Another Mac tower, another 30 floor apartment building, and two 14 floor towers at Caroline. Three 30 floor towers at George and Caroline.

I thought they were supposed to release updated engineering plans way back in like November. Still no word.

Something tells me there is going to be a stop at Bay. Look at how far back the Mac residence is from the street, almost like they knew a stop was in the works.

[HamiltonPlanning]

Some of the measurements between subway stops downtown Toronto:

King to Queen: 370m
Queen to Dundas: 440m
College to Wellesley: 400m

Obviously Toronto is much more dense, but I still think it could work here