LOUISVILLE | Museum Plaza | 696 FT / 214 M | 61 FLOORS

[Vertigo]

Originally Posted by Equilibria

ECG
Louisville ought to have a landmark building that people can flock to, adore, put on postcards, etc. and I don't see that happening here.

Louisville already has that...

Originally Posted by Equilibria

ECG
People will sail down the river, round the corner, say "holy crap, what is that thing?" and move on. They'll be left with an impression of how weird, ugly, scary, etc. the building looked just as often as they'll remember it as a masterpiece.

This was why I posted the picture of Churchill Downs. A series of massive expansions and renovations have basically bastardized this once quiant racing track into a poster child for corporate greed.

Yet, it remains one of the most instantly recognizable sporting venues in the world. It draws an international guest list of celebrities. And few of these visitors complain of how unnattractive the place is.

Why?

It happens because Churchill Downs is more than just a racing track. People that venture there do so for the EXPERIENCE. Whether sipping champagne in one of the luxury skyboxes on millionaires row or spending the day passed out in the infield, anyone that lives through a Derby never forgets it (and most don't even remember the races).

Making Churchill Downs more 'ugly' might have forever altered the look of the place but it allowed far more people to experience the most exciting two minutes in sports each year. Churchill Downs could have lived off it's past legacy and simply kept things the way they were 100 years ago. Instead, it actively sought ways of reinventing itself to appeal to each new generation.

MP doesn't have the history of Churchill Downs but I think you underestimate it's impact by assuming many people will "sail down the river, round the corner, say "holy crap, what is that thing?" then move on.

Many people will be curious as to what it really is and want to explore it further. I know that ESPECIALLY if I had just witnessed what I thought was the ugliest thing ever create I would want to know what it was.

And what is it?

An art museum..

It's much more than that. It's a part of this.....



Museums, galleries, restaurants, and theatres already fill this street and most visitors must pass those when entering Museum Plaza. Main Street is the anchor to this arts district, not Museum Plaza. So in that respect, it's a smaller part of a whole 'experience'...

The Derby is more than just a horse race. Main Street is more than just a Museum Plaza. I think most people will realize this and maybe Louisville will become known for something besides 2 wild weeks out of the year.

[EmpireCityGuy]

Originally Posted by Vertigo

So what funds are to be used 5, 10, to 20 years from now to maintain the building?

Art museum admissions won't come close to covering the cost of running this building. MP needs sales just as much as Signature Tower or any other building such as this.

The difference is that MP doesn't need those sales up front because the initial 'start up' costs are essentially in place.

Where do I even start with this one. No one but you is even entertaining the idea that museum admissions would or ever was intended to cover the costs of the building. It is a residential tower! - condo purchases, condo fees. It's a museum!- endowments, admissions, donations, seminars! MP will also house an institution of higher learning - rental income! Etc...

Residential towers often must have a minimum sales prerequisite before getting off the ground - those projects depend on loans from banks - the difference between those and MP is that, as stated already, MP is funded privately. Is everyone following?

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by EmpireCityGuy

...MP is funded privately...

Isn't the State of Kentucky kicking in $130 million of the total $465 million for the project? At least that is what has been purported in Louisville's local media...

[loupremo]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Isn't the State of Kentucky kicking in $130 million of the total $465 million for the project? At least that is what has been purported in Louisville's local media...

money from the state will be used for public infrastructure only. and it will be rebated. money generated from the hotel will help pay back the money from the state.

the tax plan has already been approved, but this article gives a little info about it.

Museum Plaza tax plan should be approved
Business First of Louisville - March 2, 2007


If all goes as it should, a bill that would allow some hotel-room taxes to be used for public improvements for the proposed Museum Plaza project should be passed today by the Kentucky House of Representatives. Then the Kentucky Senate also should pass the measure so this important downtown Louisville project becomes a reality.

Included in the $465 million, 62-story Museum Plaza complex will be office space, condominiums, retail space, an art museum and a Westin Hotel. House Bill 549 would allow some of the new city room taxes generated by the hotel to be paid to the developers to help cover the cost of public infrastructure improvements such as the extension of River Road, new flood gates and the creation of a park.

The Greater Louisville Hotel and Lodging Association and the Kentucky Tourism Council oppose HB 549. They fear its passage will open the gates for other developers to use room taxes for purposes other than for tourism, as state law now requires.

We agree that it's important that bed-tax money be used for the promotion of tourism, but we think that the hotel association and the tourism council are off base in their criticism of this bill.

Let's examine the reality of this situation rather than getting caught up in an hypothetical discussion of what could happen down the line.

The estimated $22 million that Museum Plaza developers would receive over 30 years from a portion of the bed tax would go toward the $130 million of public infrastructure connected with the project. None of the money will pay for private parts of the complex, and the entire downtown community will benefit from many of these infrastructure improvements.

No money would be siphoned off from tourism promotion as has been charged by the bill's critics. The percentage of the room-tax money that would go toward the promotion of statewide tourism would not be changed.

True, the Louisville Convention & Visitor's Bureau would receive less from bed taxes generated by the Westin Hotel if the bill passes.

But it still stands to gain $3.8 million in new revenue from the Westin's bed taxes during the tax increment financing period and $1 million a year after that period is over.

There should be no fear that the passage of HB 549 will open the doors to similar requests.

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Isn't the State of Kentucky kicking in $130 million of the total $465 million for the project? At least that is what has been purported in Louisville's local media...

Yes and IMO, that's a joke. Why should taxpayers in Ashland, KY help foot the bill for a private developers idea......IN LOUISVILLE????

I'm sorry, but after living in KY for 21 years and knowing the taxes that people there have to pay it just makes me sick when I see how bad some of the school districts are and how so many people are still out of work across the state thanks to the coal industry. And then when I see the state using taxpayer money to help build a private investment in Louisville, I want to throw up. That's bullshit.

[Vertigo]

Originally Posted by EmpireCityGuy

Residential towers often must have a minimum sales prerequisite before getting off the ground - those projects depend on loans from banks - the difference between those and MP is that, as stated already, MP is funded privately. Is everyone following?

Thank you for the insightful comment. I'm sure none of us knew that...lol!

I was simply replying so that some people wouldn't think that sales at MP aren't important. With the wording in eweezerinc's post it could have been interpreted that way(even though I'm sure he didn't mean it like that). Sales will be needed, just not upfront like normal (which is what I said in my original post).

[loupremo]

Originally Posted by Lexy

Yes and IMO, that's a joke. Why should taxpayers in Ashland, KY help foot the bill for a private developers idea......IN LOUISVILLE????

I'm sorry, but after living in KY for 21 years and knowing the taxes that people there have to pay it just makes me sick when I see how bad some of the school districts are and how so many people are still out of work across the state thanks to the coal industry. And then when I see the state using taxpayer money to help build a private investment in Louisville, I want to throw up. That's bullshit.

I don't think the taxes are coming from other counties around Kentucky. but rather from the tax increment financing (TIF) district set up around museum palza. and like the article said, the money will be paid back from revenue generated from MP. Louisvillians, correct me if i'm wrong.

Also, the same bill allowing the TIF district for MP is also allowing the 1 billion dollar mixed-use development along the Newport riverfront, known as Ovation, to go forward as well. So i think it's pretty wrong to try to make this a Louisville vs. the state of kentucky issue. That's just not the case. Louisville is basically the cash crop of the state anyway isn't it? I think the state benefits well from that city.

And lastly, 135 million wouldn't even put a dent into the issue of poor education and poverty in that state. you're going to need more like a couple billion for that.

--------------------------------------------------------
Museum Plaza tax plan should be approved
Business First of Louisville - March 2, 2007


If all goes as it should, a bill that would allow some hotel-room taxes to be used for public improvements for the proposed Museum Plaza project should be passed today by the Kentucky House of Representatives. Then the Kentucky Senate also should pass the measure so this important downtown Louisville project becomes a reality.

Included in the $465 million, 62-story Museum Plaza complex will be office space, condominiums, retail space, an art museum and a Westin Hotel. House Bill 549 would allow some of the new city room taxes generated by the hotel to be paid to the developers to help cover the cost of public infrastructure improvements such as the extension of River Road, new flood gates and the creation of a park.

The Greater Louisville Hotel and Lodging Association and the Kentucky Tourism Council oppose HB 549. They fear its passage will open the gates for other developers to use room taxes for purposes other than for tourism, as state law now requires.

We agree that it's important that bed-tax money be used for the promotion of tourism, but we think that the hotel association and the tourism council are off base in their criticism of this bill.

Let's examine the reality of this situation rather than getting caught up in an hypothetical discussion of what could happen down the line.

The estimated $22 million that Museum Plaza developers would receive over 30 years from a portion of the bed tax would go toward the $130 million of public infrastructure connected with the project. None of the money will pay for private parts of the complex, and the entire downtown community will benefit from many of these infrastructure improvements.

No money would be siphoned off from tourism promotion as has been charged by the bill's critics. The percentage of the room-tax money that would go toward the promotion of statewide tourism would not be changed.

True, the Louisville Convention & Visitor's Bureau would receive less from bed taxes generated by the Westin Hotel if the bill passes.

But it still stands to gain $3.8 million in new revenue from the Westin's bed taxes during the tax increment financing period and $1 million a year after that period is over.

There should be no fear that the passage of HB 549 will open the doors to similar requests.
----------------------------------

[EmpireCityGuy]

Originally Posted by Lexy

Yes and IMO, that's a joke. Why should taxpayers in Ashland, KY help foot the bill for a private developers idea......IN LOUISVILLE????

I'm sorry, but after living in KY for 21 years and knowing the taxes that people there have to pay it just makes me sick when I see how bad some of the school districts are and how so many people are still out of work across the state thanks to the coal industry. And then when I see the state using taxpayer money to help build a private investment in Louisville, I want to throw up. That's bullshit.

It takes more than funding to improve education... If it were only that easy... It starts at home - but let me not get too off topic here.

The state is supporting the "public" elements of the structure and urban landscape - not the private one. The Westin will be self-sufficient as will the residential portion, the business portion and any other private element. The museum is a public inhancement - so is the park, etc so it is reasonable that the state contribute something.

[JManc]

this building is certainly garish but i like it. it's daring and the developers obviously aren't afraid to experiment with new concepts. someone mentioned that it was no different than a bunch of blocks stacked on top of one another by a kid. so what? we have been building buildings that resemble a single block for so long that this ought to be an improvement in that regard.

anyway, what amazes me about this building is the engineering; it's a tripod and looks top heavy.

[Vertigo]

Originally Posted by JMancuso

this building is certainly garish but i like it. it's daring and the developers obviously aren't afraid to experiment with new concepts. someone mentioned that it was no different than a bunch of blocks stacked on top of one another by a kid. so what? we have been building buildings that resemble a single block for so long that this ought to be an improvement in that regard.

anyway, what amazes me about this building is the engineering; it's a tripod and looks top heavy.

This should be one of the most interesting highrises to watch during the construction process. From what I understand, the mid section of the building housing the art museum etc. will be constructed on the ground and then hoisted into the air. Definitely not the usual way of constructing a skyscraper.

[eweezerinc]

from SSC:

Originally Posted by Soulbrotha

yeah...and if you play flight simulator x, like me, you can get MP mods in the game...
i think it might be the old model of the rendering, but it's sooooo cool

[loupremo]

i like the night shot. thanks!!!!

[weathermanstar]

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com...um%20Plaza.jpg


set up on Oct 25, 2007,

what about ZirMed Tower when set up?

[weathermanstar]

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com...um%20Plaza.jpg

set up on Oct 25, 2007 so far

What about Zirmed Tower set up when??

[eweezerinc]

State accepts Museum Plaza's application for TIF district
The Kentucky TIF Commission has accepted Museum Plaza's application for tax-increment financing on its public infrastructure.

Negotiations now will begin among Museum Plaza developers and local and state government officials to work out the details of the project grant agreement.

The agreement will return to the TIF Commission for approval before the project can get started. The TIF Commission is set to meet Oct. 16 to consider the project grant agreement, according to a news release.

Jill Midkiff, a spokeswoman for the Kentucky Finance Department, said she could not disclose how much the developers seek the TIF district to generate because that information is confidential taxpayer information.

Museum Plaza is planned as a 62-story complex with a contemporary art museum, a Westin hotel, office space, retail shops and residential condominiums. It will be located at Seventh Street and River Road in downtown Louisville and is expected to cost $490 million.

The project is slated to break ground in late October and to be completed in late 2010.

[eweezerinc]

26 days.

26 DAYS.

From SSC

Originally Posted by Soulbrotha

from CJ...Museum Plaza's Sales office


Jesse Calhoun handed equipment down to Matt Schmitz after Calhoun installed trim molding in the lobby of the new sales office for the Museum Plaza. The office is at 7th and Main streets, and the image on the wall replicates a view from the 25th floor of the upcoming Museum Plaza. (Photos by Sam Upshaw Jr., The Courier-Journal)






The new sales office for Museum Plaza is at 7th and Main streets.

[chefjeff28]

Are we still a go for Oct. 25?

[mudvayneimn]

So far. I'm pretty sure there is one more meeting on or around October 15th dealing with the funding. So we should be hearing new info by next week.

[weathermanstar]

I can't wait built start of Museum Plaza, I love Museum Plaza,

Guess what?? I hear it Other new skyscraper happen in Louisville. Not that of Museum Plaza.

"Louisville Medical Center"

cheak it www.Louisvilleky.gov

[dallasbrink]

this looks like an old grain elevator
ugh ugh ugh, think im going to throw up. ughhhhh