Calgary Roads

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by craner

That water filter sculpture is a great idea - could put it in the east village.

It seems to me the city is using more salt in say the last 5 years or so than they used to. It leaves behind that ugly white effervescence.
The spring is such an ugly time of year here once the snow starts melting and leaving all the gravel from the winter and revaling all the garbage and dead grass . Thankfully things start to green up fairly quickly and once the streets are cleaned it's great - we just have to get through that ugly period.

yup, we just wash it all away into the rivers and life is back to normal! lol

thanks I would just like to know if the filter idea is feasible. Its not like I have built one already.....lol

[mersar]

Interesting thing to note on the topic of salt and the stormwater system, is that the city actually has an ongoing Stormwater Quality Retrofit Program which is mostly about building wetponds and the like to add some filtration to the stormwater facilities.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by mersar

Interesting thing to note on the topic of salt and the stormwater system, is that the city actually has an ongoing Stormwater Quality Retrofit Program which is mostly about building wetponds and the like to add some filtration to the stormwater facilities.

Thanks for finding that. I will have a read. This is my friends idea but.....could they recycle the water to make salt again? Or would that just be ludacris?

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Thanks for finding that. I will have a read. This is my friends idea but.....could they recycle the water to make salt again? Or would that just be ludacris?

Well, that's what a desalination plant does, but I hear that making fresh water from saltwater is prohibitively expensive.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Well, that's what a desalination plant does, but I hear that making fresh water from saltwater is prohibitively expensive.

Well I am just glad that the city is at least looking into it. One way to help would be to ask people (as proud Calgarians) to limit their salt use.

We dont want too much salt water going out to our farmlands. I heard there are studies about salt lakes showing up in the praires (over long, long periods of time) where they never existed before.

I think there were studies in the US but now that I think about it, it was more due to the fertilizers etc.....but still.....

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I am of the opinion that they have not overdone salting on the roads from what I have seen. Perhaps you had a bad example when you saw that truck go overkill. Maybe it was accident on their part by opening up too much on the chute? Who knows.

I do know that whoever maintains the office building I work at goes way overkill on their salt though. The carpets inside look gross.

It was not just one example that I have seen.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by kw5150

well then it will be 2 storeys. It would be inspiration to put other filters in other outflows located around the city. I think there are 6-8 stormwater outflows on the elbow.....and god knows how many that flow into the bow.

Solar and wind will be used to power the pumps. People will then get an idea of how much nasty stuff spills into the river. We would then harvest and sseparate the material collected by using a large _________
We would be setting an example for good ecological practices and it would be seen around the world

.....and then a bunch of ________ would crush the whole idea.....

There are over 50 on the Elbow River. When you see those signs along the riverbank that say E36 for example, that means it is the 36th outfall along the Elbow River. B109 is for the Bow River. N4 for Nose Creek, G18 - Glenmore Reservoir, CP9 - Confederation Park, etc... The numbering for Elbow starts at the Bow River, and counts up as you move upstream. Nose Creek again starts at the Bow. The Bow itself starts way down in the south, but I know there are now more further south than B1, so they have gotten out of order a bit.

The city does have some filters and skimming devices on their storm system prior to it entering the rivers, for example devices like Stormceptors:
http://www.stormceptor.com/

They are pretty effective, but also costly to maintain. And again I will reiterate that a multi-level fountain/filter is completely impractical (doesn't matter if it is 2 storeys or 3 storeys). Our entire storm system is gravity fed. Any filter will need to be underground, within the pipe system.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

There are over 50 on the Elbow River. When you see those signs along the riverbank that say E36 for example, that means it is the 36th outfall along the Elbow River. B109 is for the Bow River. N4 for Nose Creek, G18 - Glenmore Reservoir, CP9 - Confederation Park, etc... The numbering for Elbow starts at the Bow River, and counts up as you move upstream. Nose Creek again starts at the Bow. The Bow itself starts way down in the south, but I know there are now more further south than B1, so they have gotten out of order a bit.

The city does have some filters and skimming devices on their storm system prior to it entering the rivers, for example devices like Stormceptors:
http://www.stormceptor.com/

They are pretty effective, but also costly to maintain. And again I will reiterate that a multi-level fountain/filter is completely impractical (doesn't matter if it is 2 storeys or 3 storeys). Our entire storm system is gravity fed. Any filter will need to be underground, within the pipe system.

Ok, you've killed my dream. Storm sewers outfalls have always disgusted me. I wish there was a better soulution than the lame ass stormceptor. In the end it looks like we should be trying to limit what goes into the storm drains right off the bat....

[kw5150]

Can the city of Calgary declare a salt free zone in the inner city? I swear the cars coming from the suburbs drag in plenty enough salt and grit to deal with the ice.

We want to be proud of our great inner city and salt actually does quite a number on our infrastructure.

-the rivers in our city may eventually experience chloride toxicity

-the salt is limiting the life span infrastructure like bridges, sidewalks, guardrails, signage, light posts etc....

-it also wreaks havoc on entrances, floors, carpets, pants and shoes

-and causes witches broom on trees and shrubs which eventually results in the tree becoming weak and susceptible to disease, insects....

Obviously we would need salt after the first big ice event but after that we would only need it in certain places or not at all.

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by kw5150

-the rivers in our city may eventually experience chloride toxicity

I will bet there's far more natural salt in the river already than we can possibly add by road runoff.

The natural function of rivers, most particularly those in arid and semi-arid regions, is to carry dissolved solids (mostly salts) to the ocean. Southern Alberta is definitely a semi-arid region. There are a lot of salts in the surface ground. The natural runoff from the land from the foothills on down carries salt into the river.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by Oliver Klozov

I will bet there's far more natural salt in the river already than we can possibly add by road runoff.

The natural function of rivers, most particularly those in arid and semi-arid regions, is to carry dissolved solids (mostly salts) to the ocean. Southern Alberta is definitely a semi-arid region. There are a lot of salts in the surface ground. The natural runoff from the land from the foothills on down carries salt into the river.

I seriously doubt that. And aren't we just adding more? I get your point but come on.....So the job of rivers is to carry pollutants to the ocean? Fail.

[You Need A Thneed]

Calgary has some of the best care of stormwater for any city in the world. Storm ponds allow salt and other things to settle out of the water before it enters the river.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

Calgary has some of the best care of stormwater for any city in the world. Storm ponds allow salt and other things to settle out of the water before it enters the river.

good to know. Unfortunately some areas go direct into the river with no storm pond.....I guess these areas have stormceptors? Or no...?

[MalcolmTucker]

Lots of work is being done on storm water treatment. check out this article from a while back. http://www.calgarybeacon.com/2009/02...eek-bow-river/

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

good to know. Unfortunately some areas go direct into the river with no storm pond.....I guess these areas have stormceptors? Or no...?

They city is working on correcting that. That's why there a new storm pond by Fort Calgary, for example, that some of the inner city storm water goes into.

It's also why there will always be ponds and wetlands in any new suburban development.

[tmjr]

With these stormwater ponds, presumably toxin concentrations slowly build as crud settles out in the ponds. Do they eventually deal with this - e.g. dig up the toxin laden ground and incinerate it perhaps?

Also, if toxin concentrations build in these ponds, are these wetlands safe for water fowl and other creatures? I guess it would really depend on how fast the concentration builds (if at all...)

[Radley77]

I am much more concerned about the corrosion effects of salt than environmental costs. It accelerates rusting of vehichles as well as causes bridges to rust and concrete to spall. That being said, I do think the majority of people are more concerned about travel times, accidents and safety than rusting and corrosion of vehichles and bridge infrastructure. I am curious what technologies are being used by the city that could be used to make road salt more effective like prewetting or selective road salt applications at intersections. Could one day the data gathered from traffic accidents during the winter, plus the GPS equipped snowplows be used to more effectively meter salt based on location?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Radley77

I am much more concerned about the corrosion effects of salt than environmental costs. It accelerates rusting of vehichles as well as causes bridges to rust and concrete to spall.

I've said it before, and I'll just continue to say it - some of you post as if our bridges and roads are crumbling due to salt exposure. If that was remotely the case, cities like Toronto - or hell, Vancouver with its 12 months a year salt exposure - would be replacing bridges every year. And everyone would have to drive a plastic car.

Our generally cold climate and freeze/thaw cycles does far, far more damage than the salt we use. Of course, salt can add to the problem but it's a fair trade if it means surviving a drive/walk during wintertime.

For a city that "uses way too much salt", there have been something like 40 people a week being taken to hospital for slipping and falling on icy roads and sidewalks this winter. Imagine that number if we had even more ice out there.

[Radley77]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I've said it before, and I'll just continue to say it - some of you post as if our bridges and roads are crumbling due to salt exposure. If that was remotely the case, cities like Toronto - or hell, Vancouver with its 12 months a year salt exposure - would be replacing bridges every year. And everyone would have to drive a plastic car.

Our generally cold climate and freeze/thaw cycles does far, far more damage than the salt we use. Of course, salt can add to the problem but it's a fair trade if it means surviving a drive/walk during wintertime.

For a city that "uses way too much salt", there have been something like 40 people a week being taken to hospital for slipping and falling on icy roads and sidewalks this winter. Imagine that number if we had even more ice out there.

I think Calgary is lucky in that it is still a relatively young city. 50 to 100 years going to have to spend a lot more figuring out how to remediate, repair and replace, plus fund future growth. The freeze/thaw cycle makes things more problematic, cause it causes the cracks to form which will allow the salty water to come into contact with the rebar to rust.

There are compelling reasons to use road salt as it has been highly effective at reducing accidents. Maybe there are corrosion inhibitors that could be applied in addition to the salt?

[Jimby]

http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server....+Plan+FAQs.htm

http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server....+Plan+FAQs.htm

one of these should work