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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 8:05 PM
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It is interesting how different this is from the CMA population estimates: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo05a-eng.htm

As many people have said, these figures are not very accurate because not all forms are submitted. Last census the numbers were corrected upward by about 3% on average. I don't know how much the return rates varied by city.

What is odd is that some census figures are approximately the same as the estimates, while others are far below:

City / 2010 est. population / 2011 census count

St. John's 192.3 / 196,966
Halifax 403.2 / 390,328
Calgary 1,242.6 / 1,214,839

Could the return rates vary that much between cities? Another possibility is that growth rates from 2010-2011 were dramatically different from 2007-2010, but that seems unlikely. I wonder what else could explain the differences?
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 8:31 PM
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Even though this is preliminary, I was surprised at some of the results...

- Calgary isn't larger than Ottawa
- Montreal isn't even at 3.9 million like everyone was predicting
- Edmonton isn't around 1.2 million
- Neither Kitchener-Waterloo nor London hit 500,000
- Winnipeg is no longer neck and neck with QC, with QC leaving the 'Peg and Hammer in the dust
- Halifax isn't at 400,000 yet
- Regina was predicted at 20K more
- Would have thought Kelowna would've grown a bit more

Nice to see that finally Alberta has another city over 100,000 (Lethbridge). Hopefully soon Red Deer will join that club, maybe even for this census with perhaps CA extensions. How is Oshawa still not apart of the Toronto CMA and Okotoks still not apart of the Calgary CMA?
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ue View Post
Even though this is preliminary, I was surprised at some of the results...

- Calgary isn't larger than Ottawa
- Montreal isn't even at 3.9 million like everyone was predicting
- Edmonton isn't around 1.2 million
- Neither Kitchener-Waterloo nor London hit 500,000
- Winnipeg is no longer neck and neck with QC, with QC leaving the 'Peg and Hammer in the dust
- Halifax isn't at 400,000 yet
- Regina was predicted at 20K more
- Would have thought Kelowna would've grown a bit more

Nice to see that finally Alberta has another city over 100,000 (Lethbridge). Hopefully soon Red Deer will join that club, maybe even for this census with perhaps CA extensions. How is Oshawa still not apart of the Toronto CMA and Okotoks still not apart of the Calgary CMA?
You mean the CA, because the city of Lethbridge is counted as only 83,517, but the CA is indeed over 100,000 - specifically 105,999.

Red Deer's CA is the same as the city - 90,564. I don't know why they don't cover a larger area for the CA. A similar problem exists with Grande Prairie and probably also other Canadian cities, I'm sure.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ue View Post
Even though this is preliminary, I was surprised at some of the results...

- Calgary isn't larger than Ottawa
- Montreal isn't even at 3.9 million like everyone was predicting
- Edmonton isn't around 1.2 million
- Neither Kitchener-Waterloo nor London hit 500,000
- Winnipeg is no longer neck and neck with QC, with QC leaving the 'Peg and Hammer in the dust
- Halifax isn't at 400,000 yet
- Regina was predicted at 20K more
- Would have thought Kelowna would've grown a bit more

Nice to see that finally Alberta has another city over 100,000 (Lethbridge). Hopefully soon Red Deer will join that club, maybe even for this census with perhaps CA extensions. How is Oshawa still not apart of the Toronto CMA and Okotoks still not apart of the Calgary CMA?
Since the population estimates are considered more accurate and representative for population counts, most of these conclusions can't be made until the 2011 estimates are released.

Oshawa will never be incorporated with Toronto because once a CMA has been established, it cannot be removed. Only CAs can be incorporated into an adjacent CMA.
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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It is interesting how different this is from the CMA population estimates: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo05a-eng.htm

As many people have said, these figures are not very accurate because not all forms are submitted. Last census the numbers were corrected upward by about 3% on average. I don't know how much the return rates varied by city.

What is odd is that some census figures are approximately the same as the estimates, while others are far below:

City / 2010 est. population / 2011 census count

St. John's 192.3 / 196,966
Halifax 403.2 / 390,328
Calgary 1,242.6 / 1,214,839

Could the return rates vary that much between cities? Another possibility is that growth rates from 2010-2011 were dramatically different from 2007-2010, but that seems unlikely. I wonder what else could explain the differences?
As someone who's been following Winnipeg's population growth for a while, I was quite surprised at how different Stat Can 2011 results and the city of Winnipeg's estimates are....even in 2010 Stat Can estimations were different

Winnipeg 753.6 / 730,018

What's more, is the estimations fall in line with QC, but not Winnipeg (or Hamilton for that matter).

As recent as September 2011, the city of Winnipeg did a population forecast readjustment as the growth was increasing (although ever so slightly)


Not to add, this city council meeting Feb 1, 2012 discussing boundary realignment & possible RM annexation detailed these facts, according to the Conference Board of Canada:

Key Points:

- Increase of >40 000 people over last ten years, after an extended period of barely any population growth

- Next ten years, projected growth is >70 000 people (1.75% increase over previous decade)

- From 2008 - 2010, population was originally projected to grow by 17,200 people according to Conference Board of Canada

- Actual 2008-2010 population growth turned out to be 56% higher... or 30,500 people, with a vast majority coming in 09/10.


http://winnipeg.ca/cao/pdfs/population.pdf

This was from May 16, 2011, for anyone interested. Results are seemingly different from what stat can had, and there seems to be a theme of a ~20k difference throughout.

Are these people just imagined, made up, or is there a huge discrepancy going on?


Still, these new results must be considered "official" now, I suppose, so these are the benchmark. It will be interesting to see what this means for population forecasts in this city, as done by the city vs. Stat Can in the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ue View Post
Even though this is preliminary, I was surprised at some of the results...

- Calgary isn't larger than Ottawa
- Montreal isn't even at 3.9 million like everyone was predicting
- Edmonton isn't around 1.2 million
- Neither Kitchener-Waterloo nor London hit 500,000
- Winnipeg is no longer neck and neck with QC, with QC leaving the 'Peg and Hammer in the dust
- Halifax isn't at 400,000 yet
- Regina was predicted at 20K more
- Would have thought Kelowna would've grown a bit more

Nice to see that finally Alberta has another city over 100,000 (Lethbridge). Hopefully soon Red Deer will join that club, maybe even for this census with perhaps CA extensions. How is Oshawa still not apart of the Toronto CMA and Okotoks still not apart of the Calgary CMA?
Yeah, my sentiments precisely on all accounts, related to these results. Though, since I was focused more on Winnipeg, I expected it to be very tight with Quebec but there seems to be quite some difference here. I do tend to side with the city estimates more though, even if these are now the new "official" results.
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:33 PM
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When CTV Ottawa News at Noon was talking about Ottawa population numbers, they used the "Population Centres" numbers. Do they seriously not know how to read? Those are just the urban areas of the city.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
Since the population estimates are considered more accurate and representative for population counts, most of these conclusions can't be made until the 2011 estimates are released.

This is a good point, and a good reminder.
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianCentaur View Post
You mean the CA, because the city of Lethbridge is counted as only 83,517, but the CA is indeed over 100,000 - specifically 105,999.

Red Deer's CA is the same as the city - 90,564. I don't know why they don't cover a larger area for the CA. A similar problem exists with Grande Prairie and probably also other Canadian cities, I'm sure.
Yeah, I usually don't differentiate between city proper and metro, because to me the metro is a more accurate detailing of the city. So Edmonton (an individual city) in my mind would have 1,160,000.
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
Oshawa will never be incorporated with Toronto because once a CMA has been established, it cannot be removed. Only CAs can be incorporated into an adjacent CMA.
There's a first time for everything. CMAs might be combined, someday.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
Still, these new results must be considered "official" now, I suppose, so these are the benchmark. It will be interesting to see what this means for population forecasts in this city, as done by the city vs. Stat Can in the future.
They're not really official population counts since they're not corrected to account for errors in submissions or households that failed to submit forms. We will have to wait a while to get those corrections.

I do find it really odd that there are such large inconsistencies between cities though.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
This is a good point, and a good reminder.
When are the estimates released?
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:54 PM
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When are the Ethnic Origin numbers available.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:56 PM
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Looking at the numbers, it seems the growth has shifted from the suburbs to the exurbs of the big cities in the last 5 years.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Quebec City got a big jump but I noticed "adjusted figure due to boundary change".
Yeah CMA now includes Neuville, a 3.8k city west of Qc City. They also adjusted the 2006 numbers as if Neuville was included in the CMA for the 2006's census.
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Haliguy View Post
Census numbers always usual come in lower because not everyone fills out the census and also doesn't take into account transient population.
Bit odd that Halifax was off by upwards of 20,000, while St. John's and Moncton's number were consistent with what was estimated. Guess it's no different then some other CMAs.
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 10:06 PM
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I thought Montreal CMA would be a little higher than that. I also wonder why some adjacent CA's aren't included in the CMA (because of commuting pattern, I know).

If you were to include adjacent areas greatly influenced by Montreal such as La chute, Valleyfield, Joliette, Sorel, St-Hyacinthe and St-Jean-Richelieu, Montreal would be around 4,125,000.

Anyways, healthy growth for Quebec City. Gatineau passed the 300k mark and Sherbrooke passed the 200k mark which is good.

Anyone knows when population undercount will be released?
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 10:09 PM
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What's the sense of releasing these numbers if they are supposedly not accurate?
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
There's a first time for everything. CMAs might be combined, someday.
I'd be surprised; the reason CMAs are permanent is so that data can be compared from census to census. If you were to eliminate a CMA, particularly by merging them, it would no longer be possible to do so.

I wouldn't be surprised if they develop a new entity akin to the CSA. They released some analysis in terms of census regions in 2006 which did include multiple CMAs, but there were no criteria for the delineation of these regions making it rather useless to compare them. They were the Lower Mainland, Calgary-Edmonton Corridor, Greater Golden Horseshoe and Montreal and Environs (or something to the effect).
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Calgary-Edmonton corridor as a CSA/region? Amazing... that would be like a Toronto-Detroit CSA.

The reason they probably haven't done it so far is that there are just so few places that would even qualify as a CSA. Population densities are just so low in Canada you don't have the same type of scenarios you see in the US with built up areas, which is I guess why you get ridiculous "regions" like the Calgary-Edmonton region. About the only ones I can think that would even qualify as a CSA are a Toronto/Oshawa/Hamilton CSA and a Vancouver/Abbotsford CSA.
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by D-dog View Post
When are the estimates released?
Estimates are released annually, I'm not sure of the month - 2010s estimates were released Feb 3, 2011, so I would expect 2011s data to be released soon. It should be noted that those estimates will still be based on the 2006 census. It won't be until early 2013 that the initial coverage studies for the 2011 census are complete and Sept 2013 before the final results are published.
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