HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #381  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 5:03 AM
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 5,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by penfold View Post
These articles are from The New American, which is published by the John Birch Society. For those of us old enough to remember them in their prime, it's a little disconcerting to see this posted here.

Maybe the Klan has a newsletter with some opinions about high speed rail as well.
Ah, the New American.

A factoid I don't often trot out:

They bought a photo of mine and published it in one of their 1996 editions of a Russian boy with a Red Communist kerchief. I don't support their politics but, hey, I figured if they wanted to send me $100 just to publish a photo of a Russian kid I wasn't going to complain.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #382  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 5:07 AM
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 5,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
The John Birch Society was funded by Fred Koch, father of David and Charles Koch of Koch Industries. Koch Industries in turn, funnels its oil money to 'Reason' Foundation. Reason Foundation, of course is absolutely determined to prevent any infrastructure investments that would reduce our consumption of oil.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all
And the Koch's have a hand in corrupting our judicial branch, too ...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #383  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 7:29 AM
bobdreamz's Avatar
bobdreamz bobdreamz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami/Orlando, FL.
Posts: 8,123
Cali take our money and use it wisely. As for we Floridians my rage can not be contained! F U Governor Scott!
__________________
Miami : 62 Skyscrapers over 500+ Ft.|150+ Meters | 14 Under Construction.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #384  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 7:35 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJM19 View Post
Desert Xpress has a top speed of 150, and I believe it runs on Diesel. Not exactly the model I want to see for all of HSR. Im happy they are doing it just because a train on diesel is still better than all the cars driving through the desert, but I think 220 and electrified is the best deal.
Although DesertXpress haven't bought any rolling equipment yet, they could buy just about anything. But they have suggested buying EMUs, not diesel locomotives and trailer cars.....

The EMU posted on their website is similar to a Chinese CHR1 and Swedish Regina built by Bombardier. The technical specifications say 200 km/hr (120 mph) but the new versions can go 250 km/hr (150 mph).

Credit: Bombardier
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #385  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 8:12 AM
Beta_Magellan's Avatar
Beta_Magellan Beta_Magellan is offline
Technocrat in Your Tank!
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
Cali take our money and use it wisely. As for we Floridians my rage can not be contained! F U Governor Scott!
A lot of other people are enraged. I honestly expected to read about reactions ranging from cheers and indifference in Florida, but there seems to be a genuine negative reaction to Scott’s decision, even from some R’s in high places. I don’t think that the FLHSR project will continue, but I think it has a better chance of not actually dying than any of the other canceled projects did. really hope it goes forward, if only for the reason the head of an HSR advocacy organization said in TransportationNation:

Quote:
But, she said in a phone interview, “It becomes much trickier now. The next project on line is California. It becomes much larger, much more complicated, much farther away. This could set high speed rail back years, even decades.”
Are there any other relatively inexpensive true-HSR projects in the works? Could DesertXpress potentially take the role of Florida, serving as a quicker, less expensive demonstration of real high speed rail?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #386  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 8:31 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
Are there any other relatively inexpensive true-HSR projects in the works? Could DesertXpress potentially take the role of Florida, serving as a quicker, less expensive demonstration of real high speed rail?
Dude, DesertXpress is all but on-hold. Besides, a Cajon Pass leg is needed (San Bernardino and the Inland Empire have grown tremendously), and this rail plan doesn't include that.

Anyway, the California High Speed Rail project is likely to be the candidate for further funds.
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #387  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 4:36 PM
sammyg sammyg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
Are there any other relatively inexpensive true-HSR projects in the works? Could DesertXpress potentially take the role of Florida, serving as a quicker, less expensive demonstration of real high speed rail?
What about Raleigh-Charlotte? How hard would that be to upgrade from 110mph to 220?

Portland-Seattle's also short, but more mountainous.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #388  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 4:48 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
Are there any other relatively inexpensive true-HSR projects in the works? Could DesertXpress potentially take the role of Florida, serving as a quicker, less expensive demonstration of real high speed rail?

The Texas T-Bone would be a true High Speed Rail project, but it's still in the economic review process, and hasn't even started environmental studies. It'll be a decade or so before construction could start..... assuming they can get state stakeholders onboard.
http://www.thsrtc.com/

And that's not a certainly, as an opposing group is recommending Higher Speed Rail. There are no reason at all that Texas stakeholders would support either train.
http://www.texasrailadvocates.org/

In either case, it's the lobbyists running amok. Before it's over, once the mud slinging gets started, both groups will destroy the chances of the other ever being built. I believe Texas can find the financial resources to construct the T-Bone, with assistance from the Feds and the private sector, but like Florida - I don't think Texas will be willing to subsidize it on a yearly basis.

I believe many of us see the results happening around the world with HSR, but are missing seeing what occurred previously in every case. Specifically, contininous frequent intercity passenger rail operations between the two cities. I don't think America can skip this all important step politically either. And that's the problem with many American HSR proposals, the lack of frequent intercity passenger rail today on these corridors...
At least CHSR has that going for it....

Last edited by electricron; Feb 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #389  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 5:22 PM
mhays mhays is offline
Never Dell
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 19,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyg View Post
What about Raleigh-Charlotte? How hard would that be to upgrade from 110mph to 220?

Portland-Seattle's also short, but more mountainous.
Portland-Seattle isn't mountainous at all. It's basically valley land between hills, with mountains in the distance.

Also, it currently fills four trains per day each way, often 100%, even though it's a little slower than typical driving time. The last stimulus package should fund another two each way along with minor speed increases. The official goal is 19 each way, with more incremental speed increases.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #390  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 10:38 PM
BevoLJ's Avatar
BevoLJ BevoLJ is offline
~Hook'em~
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Austin, TX/London, UK
Posts: 1,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
The Texas T-Bone would be a true High Speed Rail project, but it's still in the economic review process, and hasn't even started environmental studies. It'll be a decade or so before construction could start..... assuming they can get state stakeholders onboard.
http://www.thsrtc.com/
What are the Governor Perry's thoughts on HSR now days? I HATE HATE HATE the guy. But I seem to recall the first time he ran for Gov he ran on transportation. That was his big thing. He had some of the craziest plans I had ever heard. Politics on HSR back then seemed a lot different with a lot of Republican support. What if anything has happened to that support it used to have? And they included a ton of HSR. He was going to build it all over the state. Now that he has been Gov for ever has that changed at all? I'm not really sure where to look to find any of that out.
__________________
Austin, Texas
London, United Kingdom

Last edited by BevoLJ; Feb 17, 2011 at 10:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #391  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 11:58 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,550
To all the folks criticizing the Florida governor, do you honestly believe that a suburban Orlando to suburban Tampa line makes any intuitive sense?

Do you really believe this is a good use of $3 billion? You really can't find any better use for the money?

Why not spend the money where there's actually demand, like along the Northeast Corridor, or perhaps in CA?

Now we'll never know, but I bet you if this boondoggle were ever built, it would be a disaster, and seriously harm the nationwide efforts at improved rail. I really think you would see empty trains along this line.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #392  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 12:48 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BevoLJ View Post
What are the Governor Perry's thoughts on HSR now days?
Governor Perry will fall in line with the tea party, he'll be against any state subsidy for HSR. His transportation policy is basically toll roads, regular tolls, and higher managed tolls.

That's the reason I included getting state stakeholders onboard. I don't think it is possible today, but who knows who will be governor in 4 years?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #393  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 12:52 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
To all the folks criticizing the Florida governor, do you honestly believe that a suburban Orlando to suburban Tampa line makes any intuitive sense?
The line would have stations in urban Tampa as well as the suburban areas. It would also connect tourists directly to the Disney resorts and the I-Drive area. These tourists come from all over the US, and if they ride the train, they will (presumably) come away impressed. When they go home, they might look more favorably on rail lines in their area.

Quote:
Why not spend the money where there's actually demand, like along the Northeast Corridor, or perhaps in CA?
What the hell can $3 billion do for the Northeast Corridor? Straighten a few curves in Connecticut? Shave 3 minutes off of each Acela run? If you want to see any real improvement to travel times in the NEC - which already has 150mph service - it will require a much, much higher level of investment from the Feds. Until then, I think Federal rail money should be spent elsewhere (except for obvious bottlenecks like the Portal Bridge/North River Tunnels).

Moreover, I don't think incremental improvements to the Northeast Corridor or a few more miles of greenfield HSR track in CA's Central Valley will be enough to sell most Americans on the value of high-speed rail.

Florida's a much better example, because it has everything going for it. It's short, connects two rapidly-growing cities, and the corridor already exists, with no real engineering challenges. You can't ask for an easier place to build a high-speed rail line cheaply.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #394  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 1:17 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
What the hell can $3 billion do for the Northeast Corridor? Straighten a few curves in Connecticut? Shave 3 minutes off of each Acela run?
If you shaved 3 minutes off each run out of Penn Station, you would improve 600,000 weekday transit trips.

So yeah, I think that would be just a tad more useful than an empty choo-choo from Orlando burbs to Tampa burbs.

And I don't know why you're referencing Disney. The Disney customer has a rental car if he's traveling elsewhere in Florida, and his ultimate destination wouldn't be suburban Tampa anyways.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #395  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 3:14 AM
Grego43's Avatar
Grego43 Grego43 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
To all the folks criticizing the Florida governor, do you honestly believe that a suburban Orlando to suburban Tampa line makes any intuitive sense?
.

The Tampa to Orlando line was to be the first in a Florida network. Orlando to Miami would have been the next line built.

Gov. Scott is a criminal, a cheat, and poorly equipped to lead the state of Florida.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #396  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 3:15 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
^^ The biggest flaw of the line is that it doesn't connect to the Tampa airport. The original idea was that, by putting TPA and MCO on opposite ends of a high-speed rail line, it would combine the two airports into a single market. Tampa residents could easily/quickly travel to Orlando to catch planes there, or visitors to Orlando could fly into Tampa to save money, etc.

However, Disney runs a quite busy shuttle service ('Magical Express') from the airport to their resorts, and IIRC, they pledged to shift these riders onto the train. Quite a lot of tourists choose not to rent cars, actually. I'm not aware that a ton of people combine trips to Disney with visits to other Florida destinations - the people solely visiting Disney have no use for a car, since Disney provides excellent transportation around their parks and hotels.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #397  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 4:07 AM
Beta_Magellan's Avatar
Beta_Magellan Beta_Magellan is offline
Technocrat in Your Tank!
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 648
According to the Miami Herald, a veto-proof majority of Florida state senators has come out in favor of HSR and is looking to override Scott:

Quote:
Scott rebuked by 26 senators over high-speed rail funding


A veto-proof majority of the Florida Senate tells federal officials to give Florida $2.4 billion in bullet train money, even though Gov. Rick Scott wants to reject it. Meanwhile, state officials and lawmakers seek other ways to get the money.
BY ALEX LEARY, MARC CAPUTO AND BILL VARIAN

HERALD/TIMES STAFF WRITERS

From Washington to Tallahassee, Florida lawmakers scrambled Thursday to save $2.4 billion in federal money for high-speed rail that Gov. Rick Scott rejected.
In Washington, members of Florida’s Congressional delegation met with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who gave them one week to cobble together a complicated deal that would give the money to a private entity such as Amtrak or a regional planning organization.
“The cart’s in a ditch right now and we’ve got to figure out a way if we can all pull it out together,” said U.S. Rep. John Mica, an Orlando area Republican who is chairman of the powerful House transportation committee.
In Tallahassee, a veto-proof majority of the Florida Senate rebuked Scott in a letter that urged the federal government to give the state the money Scott has refused.
“Politics should have no place in the future of Florida’s transportation, as evidenced by this letter of bipartisan support,” said the letter, signed by 26 members of the Republican-controlled Florida Senate.
“This project would create real jobs, cleaner and smarter transportation and true economic development for Floridians,” said the letter written to LaHood.
The letter was authored in part by one of Scott’s first Senate backers, Republican Paula Dockery of Lakeland, who argued that the newly created Florida Rail Enterprise could act independently of Scott because the state’s share of the rail money — $300 million — was already approved last year by a previous governor, Charlie Crist.
Quote:
“The bottom line is that he can’t reject this money: It was already approved by another Legislature and another governor,” said Simmons, R-Altamonte Springs. “It’s like trying to veto a bill after it becomes law. It’s too late.”
The number of senators who signed the letter, 26, is significant because it is a veto proof majority. The lawmakers have the power to override any attempt Scott might make to block the appropriation of rail money.
Other senators said they also didn’t like the fact that Scott decided to reverse a decision of the Legislature without giving lawmakers a heads up.
Said Sen. Greg Evers, R-Baker, “This is a sign: Talk to us first.”
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #398  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 4:27 AM
awholeparade awholeparade is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 362
i kind of agree with this, as much as i hate to admit it. at first, i was really upset by this news, but then i really started to think about it...and came to a similar conclusion. i lived in tampa bay (st. pete, more specifically) for 24 years, and i honestly can't imagine that this would get much use. tourists do rent cars, especially in places where they HAVE to. once they get they get off the train, in either city, what then? i guess they could hop on the trolley to get to Ybor, but there isn't much to see there (unless we're talking night life), and there really isn't much to do within walking distance in downtown Orlando. Hell, if they get to downtown Tampa, that entire place closes at 5 and even when the downtown is full of people, it's only business people...and it's pretty much a necessity to rent a car to get to any beach from tampa, (and don't even say Gandy Beach is an option) because tampa is a practically an hour drive to the beaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
If you shaved 3 minutes off each run out of Penn Station, you would improve 600,000 weekday transit trips.

So yeah, I think that would be just a tad more useful than an empty choo-choo from Orlando burbs to Tampa burbs.

And I don't know why you're referencing Disney. The Disney customer has a rental car if he's traveling elsewhere in Florida, and his ultimate destination wouldn't be suburban Tampa anyways.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #399  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 4:51 AM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 23,744
If you're pissed at Rick Scott over HSR being canceled in Florida, blast this poll! lol

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news...s-new-governor
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #400  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2011, 7:11 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,087
Guys, if any of you have the time, thrash these idiots (you'll know who they are) on Curbed LA:

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2011/0...eader_comments
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:11 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.